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- Jun 18, 2001
Why stop at LS,too common,and too many go fast gadgetsI have one of these for sale
Kevin
Very nice motor, I would keep it and put it in a GN. I would bet you could get that one allowed in TSO
V8 cars go somewhere else
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Very nice motor, I would keep it and put it in a GN. I would bet you could get that one allowed in TSO
Im with lonnie!! Im sick of hearing about all these swaps myself. These guys are spending 4 to 5 times the money to go slower!! Or possibly go a couple tenths faster after spending 50K to do it. Anyone that whishes to argue with me on that one bring it ON!!! And anyone that wants a v6 challenge , Ill put my v6 Buick up against any of them. Off my box now!! Mike
To me; once you have a v8 you are just like every other hot rod out there with 8 spark plugs... All that is different is the name tag...
When you roll up and do things with a 6 cyl 1987 REGAL that a lot of new vettes and such can't do in 1/4 mile, it just makes you feel soooooo good
When you roll up and do things with a 6 cyl 1987 REGAL that a lot of new vettes and such can't do in 1/4 mile, it just makes you feel soooooo good
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To me; once you have a v8 you are just like every other hot rod out there with 8 spark plugs... All that is different is the name tag...
When you roll up and do things with a 6 cyl 1987 REGAL that a lot of new vettes and such can't do in 1/4 mile, it just makes you feel soooooo good
Well said.
I love LSx motors, I own one and tune with HPtuners etc. I even really dont mind reading about the high end builds on here either regardless of the power plant.
What I absolutely can NOT stand is when people ask questions about high end Buick V6 builds and the internet keyboard gurus tell him to "just put a LSx motor in"
I still feel with a 88mm and smaller turbo you will make more power with a Buick V6 than a LSx motor. Properly built and tuned longevity shouldn't be an issue and I still don't see how the price is all that much cheaper.
I know Mick's conversion wasn't that cheap, especially with what I was told about the first motor. Maybe he could do it cheaper the second time but hey knowledge cost $$. I could certianly build a TSO motor cheaper these days knowing what I know about pistons and rods for these motors but it cost a lot of $$ to find that out!
The next ride im building is an Turbo LSx powered Malibu and ill be perfectly content with not knowing any better.
Regards, Dan
Dan then you would be the guy who knew better. LSX in a Malibu, Monte great combo. Destroying a Turbo Buick with one IDIOT.
I have 2.0 ecotech 4 cylinder 1600HP capable.
Come on Dusty. Read what you wrote. Everything is capable. Just look threw racing junk.You've come to the right place for the LS quote!!!!!!!!
Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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- Oct 11, 2003
This could be interesting... maybe turbo buick should let ls1tech know they want to have a 1000hp budget build shoot out and come up with different test to compare the two different engines made with donations from board members! I think it would be pretty cool.
Mike Licht
I was here first
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- May 23, 2001
I understand about cutting up Turbo cars and all that and agree 100% but please don't tell me you really think that you can give up 100 + cubic inches, 2 pistons, 2 intake valves and 2 exhaust valves and make more power?
I thought you you way smarter than that. That LSX wil make more power at 13 PSI than the V6 will at 23PSI. If we took a 454CID LSX motor with some all pro heads, that setup has made 2300+ with a big turbo. I we were to put an 88 on that we will run out of turbo for sure but do you really think your V6 will make more power?
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I understand about cutting up Turbo cars and all that and agree 100% but please don't tell me you really think that you can give up 100 + cubic inches, 2 pistons, 2 intake valves and 2 exhaust valves and make more power?
Yes and I am willing to prove it $$$. I have my stock style head TSO motor sitting here with a new PTE billet wheel 88mm turbo. You find ANY LSx motor build and a dyno I will show up to prove it as long as they run the EXACT same turbo.
Boost levels mean nothing I thought you where smarter than that
Take the same volume of air and put it in a larger box and you will obviously have less pressure. Obviously I wont be comparing boost numbers, just the final tally on an engine dyno
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- Jun 18, 2001
Here ya go
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/stage-ii-tech/343419-stage-2-twin-turbo.html
Post #11. I will add up my current cost in my TSO motor. You will be shocked. There was a MINT on center S2 block on here for $2500 fully machined. It can be done easier than you think.
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Dusty Bradford
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- May 24, 2001
I've seen comparable steel crank 109 short blocks "used' for sale here in that price range. Show me a vendor who is building them for that and we'll talk. Not my uncle's cousins brother knew a guy selling it cheap
So your comparing a steel crank 109 to an LS motor that will make 1000 hp reliably for the same price. You can buy these new all day for under 7k. The V6 block alone to make that power is $3500. I love the V6 on here as much as anyone but I've tuned stock LS engines with minimal boost at power levels that you would have to push the stock V6 to run. Are there guys out there with LS engines with boost that run 10's...yes there is. But there are also guys out there with V6 Buicks that could go 9's but run 11's. It's all about what the owner wants out of his car.
Bottom line. If someone wants a real daily driver type 9 second car the LS is cheaper and more reliable. And those guys are few and far between IMO. Otherwise stick with the V6 because 10's is easy with them. I wouldn't go through the trouble of putting a V8 in a car unless I wanted something I could drive on vacation with the kids in the back and run 9.50's.
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
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- May 24, 2001
I have 2.0 ecotech 4 cylinder 1600HP capable.
Well put that Ecotech motor in Chris' car and run 7.80's. Since it's cheaper than the Buick V6 you just found another great engine swap.
A stock 109 block is capable of 700hp reliably. A stock LS block is capable of 1000+. There is a point here where one engine is the better choice over the other for the $$$$. None of us can help it if the owner doesn't extract the capability out of either motor. V6 or V8.
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- Jun 18, 2001
Dusty, please see post #38
WOW Mike as an old time in this game I cant believe you asked that question. You and let me include Dusty just dont understand air flow. The answer quite simply is yes the V6 will make just as much as the LS you reference. The difference is the V6 will make that power over a broad range peaking in the 7500 range while the LS uses up the same turbo way under 5000RPM. Its simple mathematics. If you figure the air flow in Lbs per minute and apply it to the fixed CID and RPM you can figure air flow. That's why the LS 70 turbo cars run 10.50 and the TB run mid to low 9s. They use up the turbo at such a low RPM the power they make is unusable. Thats why the boost numbers look so low. It still take air to make power. Compare 4.6 Fords you will see its much better comparison as the CID is closer to our v6s.
Dusty you are doing a great Job taking the thread off task. What does this have to do with disassembling a Turbo Buick and installing an LS engine? Then continuing to hang around the Buick forums trying to convince others its the right thing to do.
Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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- Oct 11, 2003
This thread is great! Popcorn is now out because the original topic is in the dust... Can a mod re-label this LC2 vs LSx? Haha
Dan
Dan
Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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- Oct 11, 2003
It cracks me up first it was v8s gtfo, then it was lax and lc2 which is more reliable and cheaper to make a good amount of power, then it was which one make streight out the most power, now its which one can make the most power on a limited turbo... Haha so let's get the turbo off of a small perkins engine and have a competition like that?
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