The Ultimate Turbo Anti-lag System

[Alky V6]

I remember when I was first putting together the beginnings of what would be the specifications for my Buick V6 engine project. Two very important specifications were put at the top of the list right off the bat. Burning pure methanol and using nitrous to help spool the turbo. I figured that if I used nitrous, I could configure the rest of the engine specs to favor top end performance. The compromises of turbo size and torque converter choice to deal with turbocharger lag time that comes with trying to use a large efficient turbocharger could be completely ignored.
It's been a fight, and I probably picked to perfect combination to make this venture as difficult as possible, but finally,... mission accomplished.

I also remember asking for advice from the professor of turbocharging and getting the reaction of, "Why do you want to play with nitrous? You'll just end up blowing something up. Use a smaller turbo to get a quicker spool up and be done with it."
That response was not acceptable to me. First of all, it was simply the easy way out, the way everyone else was doing it, and presented absolutely no challenge at all to me. I seem to have a need for challenging the status quo. Why that is, I really don't know.
Over the years, the project has progressed slowly, but with good results along every step of the way. Even so, I've been inundated by naysayers and people that insisted that the safe route was the only route out there. That really didn't bother me much, because I had a final vision in my head of how this just might work out. I even tried my best to convey my vision to others, trying to maybe recruit others into joining in on my adventure. Many just refused to take the blinders off and look to see what's out there. If anything, that is what has bothered me the most. In the end success has been achieved, and it turned out to simply be just a matter of time, good ol' research and hard work.

Don't let anyone discourage you from chasing your dreams. You just might end up teaching them something completely new and different, and for that matter, you might teach something new to the world.

YouTube - The Ultimate Turbo Anti-lag System

 

[sweetv6]

ho ya !

very fast cranking

nice work

 

[turboc87gn]

The only prob i see with this is that most track rules dont allow the use of more than one power adder.....Awesome idea though!!!

 

[Alky V6]

The only prob i see with this is that most track rules dont allow the use of more than one power adder.....Awesome idea though!!!

I understand that some racing organizations might have rules in their 'class' racing series against the use of two power adders, but I've never heard of a 'track' having rules against two power adders. If my track had a rule like that, I'd be trying to change the rule or find another track to race at. I'm not much for having people dictate to me how to build my race car or what I can or cannot race.

I firmly have a belief that one day a popular racing organization will allow two power adders. In fact, aren't the imports already doing it? I'm just trying to seed some interest to show how bitchin it can be and hopefully make it happen sooner than later. Someone has to be the pioneer, right?

I will say this. At my home track, by the reaction of spectators that have made comments to me about the car, it seems that my car puts on a pretty good show for them. It's exciting to watch a race car that you know is turbocharged, but when the crowd sees that car also purge a nitrous system, they go absolutely crazy. For whatever reason, the crowd loves to see nitrous being purged.
It sure would be exciting to see a whole field of turbocharged cars that were also allowed to use nitrous.

 

[Alky V6]

By the way, there are popular racing series that do allow two power adders.

 

[cwmccray]

Hero

Dude,
You are my Hero!!! I have alway thought outside of the BOX... You are KILLING the box!!!! The late BRUCE was made of the same material, but you have took it to another level... Keep it coming. My HOTAIR will be taking lessons from "Professor WANG"

 

[Alky V6]

Thank you very much, Undercover Turbo Brother.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

By the way, there are popular racing series that do allow two power adders.

Most of them don't allow both because the nitrous cars can barely compete with the turbo cars. There is no reason for any org to give a turbo car dual power adders when the nitrous cars can't hang with a single power adder as it is.

The import races did allow nitrous on a turbo car because they have a hard time spooling the large turbos with the small engines.

 

[Alky V6]

Most of them don't allow both because the nitrous cars can barely compete with the turbo cars. There is no reason for any org to give a turbo car dual power adders when the nitrous cars can't hang with a single power adder as it is.

The import races did allow nitrous on a turbo car because they have a hard time spooling the large turbos with the small engines.

NHRA Summit Series allows 'run what you brung' as far as power adders.
Grass roots bracket racing allows multiple power adders.

The problem that the nitrous guys have against the turbos would be solved real quick if all parties were allowed to use whatever the heck they wanted. Let the real competition begin.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

NHRA Summit Series allows 'run what you brung' as far as power adders.
Grass roots bracket racing allows multiple power adders.

The problem that the nitrous guys have against the turbos would be solved real quick if all parties were allowed to use whatever the heck they wanted. Let the real competition begin.

I don't know what the summit series is. Heads up or bracket?

Bracket racing is not class racing. There are no advantages between power adders so it don't matter because your racing a time, not heads up.

Nitrous can't make the power of boost. You can take a 800ci nitrous motor and it still needs a weight break to run with a 600ci turbo motor. Giving the turbo motor nitrous as well would serve no purpose other than to further seperate the classes.

Part of the trick to building a competitive class racing turbo engine is the combination to get it to spool, launch and et without a 2nd power adder in order to compete against the hard launching nitrous engines.

 

[Alky V6]

I don't know what the summit series is. Heads up or bracket?

Bracket racing is not class racing. There are no advantages between power adders so it don't matter because your racing a time, not heads up.

Nitrous can't make the power of boost. You can take a 800ci nitrous motor and it still needs a weight break to run with a 600ci turbo motor. Giving the turbo motor nitrous as well would serve no purpose other than to further seperate the classes.

Part of the trick to building a competitive class racing turbo engine is the combination to get it to spool, launch and et without a 2nd power adder in order to compete against the hard launching nitrous engines.

Summit Series is bracket.
I know what you have to do to be dead on consistent. I'd be so totally bored out of my skull if I raced with a N/A car. So, I'll race with a turbo car. I'm sure it's a lost cause because it's so hard to make a turbo car consistent. But, what the heck. I'm going to give it a fair try once I'm done with development. To win a bracket race would be so secondary to me anyway. I get more fun out of building and tuning my machine. As long as I'm progressing with making the car faster each time out, I'm a happy camper. I guess I'm not a typical drag racer. Who knows. I've surprised people in the past with other things I've taken on. Maybe I'll win me a bracket race one of these days, and surprise the heck out of a lot of people. Like I've said before, don't bet against me.

The only way I would class race would be if I had a sponsor financially backing me. If I had that,... look out.

Why don't they just let the turbo cars race by themselves? Why is it that everytime you turn around a turbo car has to make concessions to another car to make the race fair? A turbo car will always need to make concessions racing another power adder. I say, bunch the turbo cars by themselves, allow nitrous and let's see what kind of crazy things happen. I have to tell ya, the spectators at my home track sure enjoy watching my car. You should hear the crowd when I purge the nitrous. PSSSST,... PSSSST,... PSSSST.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Dude i love your write ups.
i could sure use some Nitrous at the line.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Summit Series is bracket.
I know what you have to do to be dead on consistent. I'd be so totally bored out of my skull if I raced with a N/A car. So, I'll race with a turbo car. I'm sure it's a lost cause because it's so hard to make a turbo car consistent. But, what the heck. I'm going to give it a fair try once I'm done with development. To win a bracket race would be so secondary to me anyway. I get more fun out of building and tuning my machine. As long as I'm progressing with making the car faster each time out, I'm a happy camper. I guess I'm not a typical drag racer. Who knows. I've surprised people in the past with other things I've taken on. Maybe I'll win me a bracket race one of these days, and surprise the heck out of a lot of people. Like I've said before, don't bet against me.

The only way I would class race would be if I had a sponsor financially backing me. If I had that,... look out.

Why don't they just let the turbo cars race by themselves? Why is it that everytime you turn around a turbo car has to make concessions to another car to make the race fair? A turbo car will always need to make concessions racing another power adder.

I've seen turbo cars do very well in index class racing, even with a pro-tree start. The key is the launch. Most of them don't leave as hard as they can when running all out so they get a consistent 60ft. If you can 60ft the turbo car consistently they have a very good chance of winning.

Out here, at the large radial tire races they seperated the nitrous and boosted classes. The nitrous cars were dropping like flies because they couldn't compete. The problem is you can't do that everywhere at each race because you don't have enough cars to fill 2 classes. It works at the large events where you have 40-90 cars but the local series can't afford to slit the classes.

I say, bunch the turbo cars by themselves, allow nitrous and let's see what kind of crazy things happen. I have to tell ya, the spectators at my home track sure enjoy watching my car. You should hear the crowd when I purge the nitrous. PSSSST,... PSSSST,... PSSSST.

Nitrous cars always get that reaction. The crowds like the purge. Your forgetting one of the major reasons a turbo car doesn't need nitrous.......they make more power than they can use already. Take some cars we are now seeing in my racing class. Take a 632ci engine with twin 94's......he can 60ft in the 1.16 range on radials, no wheelie bars and go 4.40 at 175mph without using all the power he has on tap. It comes up on the converter instantly, launches like a nitrous car and runs out the back like the usual turbo car does. The challenge of building a fast turbo car is to get it to do all the things a nitrous car does in the 1st 300 feet of track without the use of nitrous.

 

[Alky V6]

I've seen turbo cars do very well in index class racing, even with a pro-tree start. The key is the launch. Most of them don't leave as hard as they can when running all out so they get a consistent 60ft. If you can 60ft the turbo car consistently they have a very good chance of winning.

Out here, at the large radial tire races they seperated the nitrous and boosted classes. The nitrous cars were dropping like flies because they couldn't compete. The problem is you can't do that everywhere at each race because you don't have enough cars to fill 2 classes. It works at the large events where you have 40-90 cars but the local series can't afford to slit the classes.



Nitrous cars always get that reaction. The crowds like the purge. Your forgetting one of the major reasons a turbo car doesn't need nitrous.......they make more power than they can use already. Take some cars we are now seeing in my racing class. Take a 632ci engine with twin 94's......he can 60ft in the 1.16 range on radials, no wheelie bars and go 4.40 at 175mph without using all the power he has on tap. It comes up on the converter instantly, launches like a nitrous car and runs out the back like the usual turbo car does. The challenge of building a fast turbo car is to get it to do all the things a nitrous car does in the 1st 300 feet of track without the use of nitrous.

That's one thing I do plan on doing after development. Pulling back the power to find a range for the car where it can be consistent.

Believe me, I haven't forgotten why turbo cars don't need nitrous. I've tried it with the nitrous left on a little too long. To put it simply, it doesn't work. Unless you're really looking to hit a wall. Yes, big cube engines do have an easier time getting on the turbo. Especially using a slipper clutch. But aren't they still doing the damaging pop and bang deal? Using nitrous sure would save a lot on parts. Or maybe the sponsors don't mind the parts replacing?
Those racers could get away from the heavy turbine shafts too. The pop and bang routine forces the turbo racers to use stouter and heavier rotating mass to keep from snapping things.
My ALS is as smooth as glass. :biggrin: Imagine how much they could lighten the turbo.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Yes, big cube engines do have an easier time getting on the turbo. Especially using a slipper clutch. But aren't they still doing the damaging pop and bang deal? Using nitrous sure would save a lot on parts. Or maybe the sponsors don't mind the parts replacing?

We can't run a clutch in the street car classes, they are all converter cars. No pop and bang at all. This is where the combination comes into play. The ci, rpm range, turbo size, gear, converter, camshaft......everything has to work together. Not only does it need to make max power but it has to stage and come up on boost very quickly as well as 60 foot like a nitrous car to go rounds. If nitrous was actually allowed in these classes I'm willing to bet alot of tech would not exist because it makes racing a turbo car easier.

 

[Alky V6]

We can't run a clutch in the street car classes, they are all converter cars. No pop and bang at all. This is where the combination comes into play. The ci, rpm range, turbo size, gear, converter, camshaft......everything has to work together. Not only does it need to make max power but it has to stage and come up on boost very quickly as well as 60 foot like a nitrous car to go rounds. If nitrous was actually allowed in these classes I'm willing to bet alot of tech would not exist because it makes racing a turbo car easier.

Are you saying that there is absolutely no compromise to the top end potential inorder to get the spoolup that's needed for the launch? I find that very hard to believe, unless it's just that much easier to spool two smaller turbos with big cubes. That I can believe. It really doesn't take much tech to throw more cubes at a problem. That has been happening since the beginning of engines.

I would even venture to say that there is some sort of compromise in every item that you just listed. I don't consider compromise as being high tech. It's just what it is, a bunch load of compromises.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Throwing cubes at the issue isn't always the answer. How about a 8.2 deck Windsor with a single turbo.......How do you spool a 106mm quickly with 359ci??? Nitrous is the easy way. Since your not allowed nitrous you need to build the engine for rpm capability to run a loose enough converter to allow you to spool. Since you'll have a converter that flashes to 7500 rpm you will need to shift this motor at 8500+.

Nitrous is the easy fix. Getting the proper compression, cam profile, head flow, gear ratio, turbo, converter is the long hard road. After all this planning and building, you have to do it better than everyone in the class to succeed.

 

[Alky V6]

Throwing cubes at the issue isn't always the answer. How about a 8.2 deck Windsor with a single turbo.......How do you spool a 106mm quickly with 359ci??? Nitrous is the easy way. Since your not allowed nitrous you need to build the engine for rpm capability to run a loose enough converter to allow you to spool. Since you'll have a converter that flashes to 7500 rpm you will need to shift this motor at 8500+.

Nitrous is the easy fix. Getting the proper compression, cam profile, head flow, gear ratio, turbo, converter is the long hard road. After all this planning and building, you have to do it better than everyone in the class to succeed.

Dusty. You just listed off a bunch load of compromises. If you don't throw cubes at it, you have to do this and that to get the turbo to spool. Compromises at every single turn. The person with the best set of compromises wins.

Wouldn't it be fun to be able to tune for maximum top end performance without having to worry about how it's going to affect the spoolup?
The spoolup tune would be a completely separate tune in itself with absolutely no need to compromise the top end tune.

I have to tell you, the parts suppliers are loving all this compromising stuff. It keeps the parts development departments busy and parts flying off the shelves. Instead of adjusting a few cheap jets to control the spoolup without affecting the top end tune, a simple change in a stall speed or camshaft spec, or any of the variables Dusty listed might call for a completely new set of compromises of all the variables involved. A snow ball affect, if you will. Wow. Better have a deep wallet for that type of racing. And how much did it cost me in trying different CRs, heads, cams, turbos, converters, gears, tires, cubic inch displacements, header styles? It cost me the time to develop an effective 2 stage nitrous system. A system that no one else in the world has ever seen.
Setup the engine for top end efficiency and dial in the nitrous system for spoolup and launch.

You're very right, Dusty. It is the easy way. Also, the less expensive way by far.

And, development of the nitrous/methanol ALS w/AB continues. :biggrin:

 

[Alky V6]

I find it so interesting that just a little while back, people were suggesting that I stop working so hard to try to spool this large turbo and just pay the money for a smaller turbo and then have Dusty match me up with a torque converter. In essence, everyone was saying, don't work so hard on this, just take the easy way out and go with a good ol' proven combination that is tried and true. Compromises, yes, but just ignore that. It's all part of turbocharging, right?

Now, after about 2 years of trials and tribulations to come up with something that could definitively be the great equalizer and prevent people from wasting money having to buy this and that turbo, cam, converter, and whatever else, I have THE system that can make any combination workable, and Dusty is saying, it's the easy way out. No congratulations and such, just,... it's too easy. How ironic is that!

 

[Alky V6]

When you're presented with a problem to solve, and when you come up with a solution for that problem, a solution that is unique, and the main criticism of the solution is that it's too simple, you know then and there that you've come up with a GREAT solution.