anti-lag
- Thread starter movinfast
- Start date
DailyDrifter
The Slow and the Curious
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
Lag is caused by bigger turbo's and larger intercoolers. It wont effect our engines they love boost. All turbo cars have Some degree of "Lag". As far as your original question I dont really understand, if you want anti-lag go with a supercharger
im sorry let me correct my self in asking my?well the new bmw's have twin turbo's with anti-lag,meaning the turbo's already spooled up at idle so when you step on the gas full boost. im not to sure but its something about a combustion in the exaust that keeps the turbo spinning at top speed so when you step on the gas boom full boost. what im asking is, can we do it to our cars and with the turbo being at top spin all the time will it mess or break something?
no no no, you guys are in the dark. This works for ALL turbos!
Most all rally racing cars have this feature added to their ECU, usually MoTec.
Most expensive units keep the throttle plate cracked open, even when you aren't pressing on the gas. (We don't have fly-by-wire throttle bodys for one thing)
RPMs stay low, but above idle (limiter working)
Boost stays at preset level. (up to 1.5 Bar)
YES, there is combustion in the exhaust, not in the chambers, thus spinning the turbo, but not really building RPMs.
Fancy tuning skills are needed to get this done without doing damage.
Turbine and turbine housing get crazy hot, BUT you do maintain full boost at all times.
Most Rally cars have this feature active when the clutch is depressed, or in launch mode.
$$$$$MONEY$$$$$
I've always wanted this in a stick-shift GN.....Maybe when I win the lottery?
Most all rally racing cars have this feature added to their ECU, usually MoTec.
Most expensive units keep the throttle plate cracked open, even when you aren't pressing on the gas. (We don't have fly-by-wire throttle bodys for one thing)
RPMs stay low, but above idle (limiter working)
Boost stays at preset level. (up to 1.5 Bar)
YES, there is combustion in the exhaust, not in the chambers, thus spinning the turbo, but not really building RPMs.
Fancy tuning skills are needed to get this done without doing damage.
Turbine and turbine housing get crazy hot, BUT you do maintain full boost at all times.
Most Rally cars have this feature active when the clutch is depressed, or in launch mode.
$$$$$MONEY$$$$$
I've always wanted this in a stick-shift GN.....Maybe when I win the lottery?
Turbo Anti-lag systems - A technical description
They really do make a "bang bang" sound, like a fokked up engine popping and barking out flames. Kinda like a "CRacK"
They really do make a "bang bang" sound, like a fokked up engine popping and barking out flames. Kinda like a "CRacK"
anti lag is great, and its generally acheived by retarding the timing so much that the power stroke overlaps the exhaust and creates combustion in the exhaust. so expanding gasses from combustion in the exhaust drive the turbo. I had this conversation the other day and am trying to figure out a cheap way to do it. the main problem is ou need a decent stall to keep the rpm up enough to stay running. I have never used it under 2500rpm and its allways been with AEM EMS systems. but I want ot try to modify a 2 step and some kind of timing retard to accomplish the same.
My conversation about it the other day came up when discussing stall speed and streetability. if I can get a cost effective antilag you wouldnt need a high stall and would keep good street manners.
watching log files from the EMS in my other car it looks like timing is roughly 10-14 degrees ATDC when on the anti-lag.
I think ideally the 2 step would be about the flash rpm of the converter so the car would be easy to hold at the line since there shouldnt be much load on the tire.
anyway thats plenty to type, I may try it out and if I do I will report back on what I did
My conversation about it the other day came up when discussing stall speed and streetability. if I can get a cost effective antilag you wouldnt need a high stall and would keep good street manners.
watching log files from the EMS in my other car it looks like timing is roughly 10-14 degrees ATDC when on the anti-lag.
I think ideally the 2 step would be about the flash rpm of the converter so the car would be easy to hold at the line since there shouldnt be much load on the tire.
anyway thats plenty to type, I may try it out and if I do I will report back on what I did
You'll need a way to crack the throttle plate open to get the extra air!
Or an air pump. Both are not cheap to do on a Buick.
What will you use to activate/deactivate this feature??
This is really intended for stick-shift cars only. Never heard anyone try or think about trying it on an automatic, but I guess it wouldn't hurt with spoolup? But if you have such a loose converter, why not just power-brake it or use a T-brake?? Much cheaper and works!
Or an air pump. Both are not cheap to do on a Buick.
What will you use to activate/deactivate this feature??
This is really intended for stick-shift cars only. Never heard anyone try or think about trying it on an automatic, but I guess it wouldn't hurt with spoolup? But if you have such a loose converter, why not just power-brake it or use a T-brake?? Much cheaper and works!
thats why you use a 2 step rev limiter. probably on a momentary switch, so you go wide open and the 2 step limits rpm, andhence limits load on the drivetrain, take it up to stall speed, say stall is 2600 set the 2 step to 2500, and you can hold it open, let off the switch, and have it leave wide open on however much boost you want.
on the stick cars I wire it to the clutch switch, I guess you could do the brake switch also, so when you let off the foot brake it comes off the anti-lag and 2 step. you just need a switch so it doesnt activate during normal driving or stopping at the end of the track
on the stick cars I wire it to the clutch switch, I guess you could do the brake switch also, so when you let off the foot brake it comes off the anti-lag and 2 step. you just need a switch so it doesnt activate during normal driving or stopping at the end of the track
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
Not a good idea here in my opinion?
Just a word of caution when using this on a stock ignition Buick, the waste spark will KILL your pistons and more. The "combustion" created on the exhaust side will happen twice in a revolution and is not good when the exhaust valve is open.
Some GN racers can get away using a 2-step for a while with a coil pack, but I have seen and replaced many pistons and valves because of it.
Just a word of caution when using this on a stock ignition Buick, the waste spark will KILL your pistons and more. The "combustion" created on the exhaust side will happen twice in a revolution and is not good when the exhaust valve is open.
Some GN racers can get away using a 2-step for a while with a coil pack, but I have seen and replaced many pistons and valves because of it.
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
My opinion on anti lag is it's only for drag only cars, I know a guy who was eating up turbo's because of what anti lag does to get it to spool. This is not for a street car unless you have tons of $$ for turbo's and are a manual trans.
As notice what transmission the majority of those who use anti lag is, manuals.
It's not difficult for GN's, get a transbrake and save your turbo. Auto's need torque and if you can't leave the hole on a transbrake with a properly stalled converter you probably can't grasp how to get anti lag to work right anyways.
I'll assume the OP probably has a high 10 car at best which anti lag is so not needed.
As notice what transmission the majority of those who use anti lag is, manuals.
It's not difficult for GN's, get a transbrake and save your turbo. Auto's need torque and if you can't leave the hole on a transbrake with a properly stalled converter you probably can't grasp how to get anti lag to work right anyways.
I'll assume the OP probably has a high 10 car at best which anti lag is so not needed.
Just a word of caution when using this on a stock ignition Buick, the waste spark will KILL your pistons and more. The "combustion" created on the exhaust side will happen twice in a revolution and is not good when the exhaust valve is open.
Some GN racers can get away using a 2-step for a while with a coil pack, but I have seen and replaced many pistons and valves because of it.
ah, good call. diddnt even think of that yet. this would be a big issue. hmmm back to the drawing board.
oh and I have never damaged a turbo using a proper anti-lag setup. even on a street car.
You must be a genious or the most lucky guy in the world. (or full of poop or very cornfused?)
What system do you think you were using?
Even a million dollar++ race team will destroy a turbo every 20-100 miles of driving using the anti-lag system. All rally race cars (the only ones I can think of who all use this) have to swap turbos at every check point.
The new BMW does not have anti-lag electronics, no production car has every offered this.
The direct-injection engine in the BMWs can eliminate detonation by spraying the gas into combustion chamber at the right time, and can make the car run lean producing very hot exhaust gas to spin the turbine up and reduce lag. This is not possible with our cars because we would detonate. I also doubt the BMW has variable vanes on two turbos for the price of that engine/car.
Direct injection, like a deisel is flippin schweet, and has many benefits and no drawbacks, except cost.
wow, well I THINK I was using an AEM EMS like I said before, and I think I ran my car for thousands of miles and tons of antilag launches. hmmm come to think of it my other car has been off the anti-lag countless times on one turbo rebuild in the last 7 years. well with anti-lag being used the last 3 anyway.
like I said I havnt used it on a buick, and after the other post about the ignition system, I guess it would not work with the factory ignition system.
I have ot add, whle working for a world record holding import based race car shop I have never actually seen turbo damage from anti-lag. our 12,000 rpm 115o WHP honda ran 3 seasons with out touching the turbo.
again not a buick. so maybe Im only a honda genious
like I said I havnt used it on a buick, and after the other post about the ignition system, I guess it would not work with the factory ignition system.
I have ot add, whle working for a world record holding import based race car shop I have never actually seen turbo damage from anti-lag. our 12,000 rpm 115o WHP honda ran 3 seasons with out touching the turbo.
again not a buick. so maybe Im only a honda genious
