SR7 Performance - anyone here dealt with them?

[CPT]

Frank,
On the vacuum modulator setups...
I have a theory as to why they may cause issues.
Vacuum modulated line pressure has worked for years on the older 3 speed units without issue. I do manual/auto Th400s often that are in the 650-800+ HP range and they are living fine (with weekly abuse at the track) despite some other builders claims you must have a full manual VB at these levels.

So the principle is sound, at least for these units.

What I suspect could cause an issue on a high powered, frequently raced, 4L60e with vacuum modulated line, is that at the end of the run, most people will leave it in 3rd, letting it engine brake to decel.
When you let off, the vacuum system drops line to minimum pressure, but in 3rd you must still hold the over-runs and 3-4's for engine braking.
I think the loss of line on decel (high vacuum), causes the clutches to slip.

I haven't looked at the OEM calibration for one in depth yet on decel. I'll do that next time I get a chance.
However I can see the OEM keeping higher line in manual 3rd on hard decel.
The vacuum modulator system would be stupid in this regard because it is running things solely on vacuum, which would be maxed on decel.

So the minimum pressure with the vacuum system would need to be high enough to keep the frictions alive on decel, and yet not so high under zero vacuum condition to cause other issues.

A very good trans guy once taught me to think about the downshift and decel side of things. He said more trans failures are caused by downshifts than upshifts....

In older 3 speeds, I do prefer a full manual, if the car has forced induction, or a really large cam. The modulator system starts getting unstable with those combinations.

The things you're looking at in the vacuum modulated 4L60E's, are some good points. These are some of the instabilities I was referring to.
We could probably fill a few pages with how vacuum modulators work different than an EPC, but the last sentence will always be the same....Vacuum modulators don't work as well as an EPC to control pressure. Again, all the theory and technical points don't mean anything when you've got a bunch of burnt up transmission parts because of a vacuum modulator. It's one of those "it looks good on paper" things. It SHOULD work, but it doesn't.

Frank
CPT

 

[A. G. Olphart]

A fun thread... I like watching the testosterone flow.

Jake, thanks for the comments on vacuum modulators and deceleration hydraulic pressures. Nice to see a man who thinks.

 

[chris718]

we both know your not getting any phone calls.we both know you dont know how they work.and remember your using hipsters brakes and im making my own.also i have a car here that you did 3 times.4l60e.the car goes 9.80 now.you want him to sign on to this discussion?

 

[CPT]

we both know your not getting any phone calls.we both know you dont know how they work.and remember your using hipsters brakes and im making my own.also i have a car here that you did 3 times.4l60e.the car goes 9.80 now.you want him to sign on to this discussion?

Um..Yes, we've got many calls about your transmissions failing. That's why you got chased off CZ.com. Sure...I don't know how they work...LOL That's why mine are working better and lasting longer than yours. I use Hipster brakes because I don't have a machine shop. You want to throw stones about parts? Your parts list for the 4L60E is a pile of junk!

Yes, pony up. Who's this mysterious customer. I've never built ANYBODYS transmission 3 times. Obviously a figment of your misguided imagination. Remember, if you don't provide this customer, you've completely discreditted yourself. Of course, the failure rate of your transmissions has already done that for you. You build a transmission that sucks, and you just can't accept that fact, so you try to make others look bad.

Frank
CPT

 

[CPT]

you want him to sign on to this discussion?

Just incase you missed it before...Yes, where is he?

Frank
CPT

 

[chris718]

frank there is no shame here .i am a professional.we have a very low failure rate and probably do 4 to 5 times more business a year than you do.we dont sell many 4l60es.probably 2 in the last year.this is because of people like you who dont value their work and do them for 1000 plus dollars without replacing electrical components.and yes we do have a car you couldnt get to live in the 9s.if we couldnt build transmissions we wouldnt be grossing close to ,none of your business anyhow.im not going to continue this any further its not my post.you have all the answers but provided none.bye bye

 

[CPT]

frank there is no shame here .i am a professional.we have a very low failure rate and probably do 4 to 5 times more business a year than you do.we dont sell many 4l60es.probably 2 in the last year.this is because of people like you who dont value their work and do them for 1000 plus dollars without replacing electrical components.and yes we do have a car you couldnt get to live in the 9s.if we couldnt build transmissions we wouldnt be grossing close to ,none of your business anyhow.im not going to continue this any further its not my post.you have all the answers but provided none.bye bye

So you can't provide the customer in question? Now who's full of crap? You can't provide one for one simple reason...THERE IS NONE! You've done a wonderful job of proving my case.

Frank
CPT

 

[chris718]

frank ,dont worry ill come thru .i always do.

 

[jakeshoe]

Frank,
What do you consider reliable?

So a better way to ask you be, you are getting the 4L60E's to not have any hard parts or friction failures at mid-high 9's for how long?

I consider relaible in a drag car, that is a car that is raced almost every weekend, to be 1 full season. If the trans can make it one full season, I feel that on a 9 or 10 second car, a trans freshening (new clutches, seals, inspection) is part of the maintenance program at that level.

On a "street/strip" car that is occasionally raced. Say average 5 times a year (20-30 passes total) and street driven several thousand miles a year, and in the 9-10 second range (most cars that are this fast are not driven this often) I would still expect 1 year, however on a 11-12 second car 2 yrs would be my minimal expectation.

In a 9 second car there are always going to be trans failures, often not the builders fault. A rear diff failure will cause trans hard parts breakage more often than not on launch.
So I wouldn't expect any builder to never have a failure but I'm just trying to define what we consider success.

 

[FASTFATBOY]

I know neither side here,
But as i have been in this business 20+ years I gotta say
If someone sent me a tranny to rebuild,This is the tranny i rebuild.
I dont think it his his job to ask you if its going into a 94 or not.
It would be YOUR job to give to him the year the vehicle is and ask
if putting it this core would be a problem or not.


He would be building a core YOU supplied to him
How would he know this is not the original unit from the car?
(Again,I would beleive the core you sent to be the unit from the car unless stated otherwise)
This is info YOU need to supply to him.

If you were in the engine building business, a customer sent you a longblock and said" I want a 700 hp engine" You would not CALL him to find out:

What kind of car it was going in
What the car going was to be used for, race or street or both
What kind of fuel the car would use
What kind of maintenance the owner was prepared to do on it(cam type)
What cooling system the car had
Weight of the car

And a PLETHORA of other questions "I" would want to know.


You are saying you would just pop together a 700hp engine, warranty it for a year and send it off???


You are alot different than me, it is the same concept with this transmission.


David

 

[CPT]

probably do 4 to 5 times more business a year than you do.

4-5 times? I've built 262 transmissions since August 2006...112 of which have been either a 700 or a 4L60E. In total, I've got right around 3,500 transmission under my belt.

we dont sell many 4l60es.probably 2 in the last year.

But you're the expert. I've built 112 to your 2?

yes we do have a car you couldnt get to live in the 9s.

Still waiting...I'm sure you'll find this fictitious customer about the same time you find Santa Clause and The Easter Bunny.

if we couldnt build transmissions we wouldnt be grossing close to ,none of your business anyhow.

Hey, there's plenty of other frauds out there. Don't feel bad, you're not the only one.

Now, let's look back here. Chris, you attacked me in my very first post. Let's see...Why would someone do that? The answer is simple...Because you're SCARED! You know we build a better transmission and sell it for less money than you do. You've sunk so low that you've had to try to make up customers that have had a transmission built by us "3 times". Don't worry, I'm sure your lack of proof on this will brand you a liar to all the others reading this post.
You ran from CZ, with your tail between your legs, because you knew you couldn't compete with me on price, build quality, or reputation. See, what you fail to understand is, I didn't come here to steal your buisness, so there's no reason to be scared. I came to this thread because I was invited. I have enough work on CZ to keep me busy. Yes, I build as good of a 2004R as you do, but I'm not looking to take over that market. I know Camaros, 700, and 4L60E's inside and out. I'll admit, my knowledge of the GN and TR is lacking a little (not on the 2004R, though). The thread I joined was about a 4L60E.
So, you can take comfort. Yes, I could steal all your buisness and provide these guys with a much better 2004R than you can build, but it's not my intention.

Frank
CPT

 

[CPT]

Frank,
What do you consider reliable?

So a better way to ask you be, you are getting the 4L60E's to not have any hard parts or friction failures at mid-high 9's for how long?

I consider relaible in a drag car, that is a car that is raced almost every weekend, to be 1 full season. If the trans can make it one full season, I feel that on a 9 or 10 second car, a trans freshening (new clutches, seals, inspection) is part of the maintenance program at that level.

On a "street/strip" car that is occasionally raced. Say average 5 times a year (20-30 passes total) and street driven several thousand miles a year, and in the 9-10 second range (most cars that are this fast are not driven this often) I would still expect 1 year, however on a 11-12 second car 2 yrs would be my minimal expectation.

In a 9 second car there are always going to be trans failures, often not the builders fault. A rear diff failure will cause trans hard parts breakage more often than not on launch.
So I wouldn't expect any builder to never have a failure but I'm just trying to define what we consider success.

We give a 1 year warranty on everything we build. We're not really concerned with how fast they run, or how much HP they're making. They ALL get 1 year. After that initial first year, we offer a $250 + parts "Freshen Up" service for the following 2 years.
Sorry, even in the 9 second transmissions, we don't see many failures during the warranty period. We've got a huge amount of 11 and 12 second cars that have over 2 years on our 4L60E's...Many of them being nitrous cars. We had one running 11.0, that lasted 4 years, before it snapped the ouput shaft...but...that was before we started using the 4L65E output shafts. This particular car was launching on a 175 shot, and pulling 1.51 60 ft. times.

Frank
CPT

 

[chris718]

Frank, stated you aregetting phone calls from people complaining about my 4l60es.So now im swinging. I sold 2 in the last year.that is not my market.i asked you a few questions and you **** yourself.your not a threat to a market i dont have a share in.if youve built 262 units since august 2006,im sure you know the car im talking about. the car im talking about was towed up from wilmington on sunday.car has a vortech and cant keep third gear in it.at 1000 a piece that alot of patchwork.last pass was a 9.80 .ill be installing a 4l80e.now back to business :as for the solenoids not going bad,that is a major issue with the 4l60e.not replacing solenoids during a performance rebuild is a poor business decision.when the trans first came out i was working on them and was schooled on it at the factory in upstate ny.i remember my first drive in one that worked properly was wow this thing calibrates the shifts to gas pedal effort better than a tv cable.the biggest problem was second gear starts caused by defective solenoids.20,000 miles was not unusual for them in a passenger car or van never mind a taxicab or police car.another major issue was cracked aluminum clutch pistons due to stuck epcs.with whats availabe now a mid 9 second car that goes to the track /15 to 20 runs each time will quickly destroy a 4l60e.maybe one out 50 is getting by.the 3rd clutch cant do it.the return spring omission is old news ,the industry has been doing it for years.the z pack cant handle that.call raybestos and ask frank slocum what i did to it after 6 runs with a brand new 2004 gto with 13000 miles and a vortech at 10.56 128.ask his friend al geigenberger what we did to it after 28 passes in a 9 second gn.we all know your using the zpack and sonnax this and that so obviously your not getting any more life out of it than the rest of the industry.we not talikng about 1 car.how many runs in the 9s with the 3/4 s still alive?i dont want your trade secrets just some answers. ive got them already,ive got your ls1 4l60e waiting to be pulled out and tore down. now when i open up this ls1 4l60e ill have a good idea how you build transmissions for 1000 dollars,and you claim my build sheet looks like your scrap pile.gather your tongue or ill be sure and post a picture of the scrap pile right here when its apart.

 

[Otto J]

If you were in the engine building business, a customer sent you a longblock and said" I want a 700 hp engine" You would not CALL him to find out:

What kind of car it was going in
What the car going was to be used for, race or street or both
What kind of fuel the car would use
What kind of maintenance the owner was prepared to do on it(cam type)
What cooling system the car had
Weight of the car

And a PLETHORA of other questions "I" would want to know.


You are saying you would just pop together a 700hp engine, warranty it for a year and send it off???


You are alot different than me, it is the same concept with this transmission.


David

A transmission build and motor build are not the same.

And your problem had nothing to do with wether it would hold up,But it was the wrong year unit for your application.
If you send him a motor to build im sure he would build the one you send him,Not worry about if its for hte right year vehicle or not,I still say its your job.

 

[FASTFATBOY]

A transmission build and motor build are not the same.

And your problem had nothing to do with wether it would hold up,But it was the wrong year unit for your application.
If you send him a motor to build im sure he would build the one you send him,Not worry about if its for hte right year vehicle or not,I still say its your job.

Ok, I DONT see your point....WOW, I will make damn sure I am careful who I do business with in the future.

Why is a trans and an engine SO much different? No the problem was not whether it would hold up but rather THAT IT WORKED!

BECAUSE the years in those cars(F BODIES) are different internally SHOULD have been an even BIGGER interest in finding out the specfics on car and trans, especially knowing I did a six speed to auto swap.

Any other run of the mill trans I MIGHT be CLOSER to agreeing with you, but still you gonna put a stock rebuild turbo 350 behind a big block blower car and warranty it? After all, you just build what is sent to you and don't bother calling the customer to see what it is going in....right?

David

 

[Otto J]

BECAUSE the years in those cars(F BODIES) are different internally SHOULD have been an even BIGGER interest in finding out the specfics on car and trans, especially knowing I did a six speed to auto swap.


David

Another reason YOU should have made sure to let them know this in advance.

Why did you send him a 96 trans for your 94 car?
UNLESS you did not know there was a difference,Then it may have
been a good idea to bring this up before the build.

Knowing that he was building the trans and shipping it to you without asking about hte year of the car,If you knew they were different years why would you expect it to work without him having this info?

 

[CPT]

Frank, stated you aregetting phone calls from people complaining about my 4l60es.So now im swinging. I sold 2 in the last year.that is not my market.i asked you a few questions and you **** yourself.your not a threat to a market i dont have a share in.if youve built 262 units since august 2006,im sure you know the car im talking about. the car im talking about was towed up from wilmington on sunday.car has a vortech and cant keep third gear in it.at 1000 a piece that alot of patchwork.last pass was a 9.80 .ill be installing a 4l80e.now back to business :as for the solenoids not going bad,that is a major issue with the 4l60e.not replacing solenoids during a performance rebuild is a poor business decision.when the trans first came out i was working on them and was schooled on it at the factory in upstate ny.i remember my first drive in one that worked properly was wow this thing calibrates the shifts to gas pedal effort better than a tv cable.the biggest problem was second gear starts caused by defective solenoids.20,000 miles was not unusual for them in a passenger car or van never mind a taxicab or police car.another major issue was cracked aluminum clutch pistons due to stuck epcs.with whats availabe now a mid 9 second car that goes to the track /15 to 20 runs each time will quickly destroy a 4l60e.maybe one out 50 is getting by.the 3rd clutch cant do it.the return spring omission is old news ,the industry has been doing it for years.the z pack cant handle that.call raybestos and ask frank slocum what i did to it after 6 runs with a brand new 2004 gto with 13000 miles and a vortech at 10.56 128.ask his friend al geigenberger what we did to it after 28 passes in a 9 second gn.we all know your using the zpack and sonnax this and that so obviously your not getting any more life out of it than the rest of the industry.we not talikng about 1 car.how many runs in the 9s with the 3/4 s still alive?i dont want your trade secrets just some answers. ive got them already,ive got your ls1 4l60e waiting to be pulled out and tore down. now when i open up this ls1 4l60e ill have a good idea how you build transmissions for 1000 dollars,and you claim my build sheet looks like your scrap pile.gather your tongue or ill be sure and post a picture of the scrap pile right here when its apart.

You better make damn sure you've got your facts straight. That's NOT one of my transmissions! Make sure you post pictures of the drivers side case, just behind the bellhousing. My transmissions are numbered there. I have not built any 4L60E's for a Vortech supercharged car from Wilmington. So, either you're full of ****, or your customer is. Give up a customers name, or the transmission numbers. You also better make damn sure you don't have me confused with Carolina Performance Transmissions (CPT).

I don't have to call anyone. My transmissions are proof that the Z-Pak is holding up! Again, you're listening to too much theory and crap. I build transmissions for the real world and subject them to real world conditions.

Frank
CPT

 

[CPT]

last pass was a 9.80 .

Does this customer know you're going to slow his 9.80 car down to a 10.0 car with one of your 4L80E slugs?

Frank
CPT

 

[bison]

Does this customer know you're going to slow his 9.80 car down to a 10.0 car with one of your 4L80E slugs?

Frank
CPT

I doubt it would slow down that much especially when it gets a more favorable 1st gear for a high torque engine.

 

[Otto J]

The added weight would be the worst part
But the added depenability is priceless

I always like the 700 style trans but dislike the 1-2 ratio drop
I had one in a Nitrous 88 iroc i built in 91 that ran 10.80 at 128
with a 1.40 60 ft for 2 years with no burn up on stock 3-4 clutch pack
I did break about every hard part twice though