WOT correction OFF with Alky?

murphster said:
I'm running Autolite Racing AR 3934 plugs (non projected tip, pre-gapped at .028).

One thing to add to all this. Once I stated logging alky pressure last year, I noticed a large variation in alky pressure when the tank wasn't filled to the top. I now top off the tank before each run. I'm moving my battery to the trunk soon and plan on putting the alky reservoir in the stock battery location like Pacecarta did with the it turned 90 degrees counterclockwise so that the outlet is at the rear of the tank. I also prime the alky before a pass and watch the pressure on the laptop to make sure it is coming up normally.

As far as #1 leaning out...... it seems that its hard to say whether it is due to running too lean of an A/F ratio on alky and the weakest link in the chain (#1) is the first to go or its due to alky richening up the rear cylinders. After taking out #1 cylinder I dual fed my Champion fuel rails and switched to an external fuel pressure regulator. And after reading up I've lowered my timing a little, richened up my A/F ratio and switched over to the non-projected tip spark plugs in order to be on the safe side as I've turned up the boost and gone faster. I've been keeping my eye out for a stand alone mulitple EGT setup as that will ultimately tell the tale.

Here are some PowerLogger screengrabs from my last time out. 10.28@134mph. I spun on the launch so only a 1.63 60ft. Analog input 4 is alky pressure. EGT was 1469. MSBC boost controller in wastegate mode with CO2. Running 28" tires on this run, slippage around 5-6% on a PTC converter. This is on a TT 5.7 chip, non-correcting.

View attachment 153888View attachment 153889View attachment 153890
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which pressure sensor are you using for the alky, the channel is pegging in PL.

Bob
 
NGK plugs here as well.5671a-7. What Champion plug are you running and would in be good for us pump gas/alky guys?

Thanks to everyone who has posted. Some good info.

RL
 
TurboBuRick said:
NGK plugs here as well.5671a-7. What Champion plug are you running and would in be good for us pump gas/alky guys?

Thanks to everyone who has posted. Some good info.

RL
Click to expand...
I'll get the part number when I get to the shop. I highly recommend it to the pump/alky guys. The part number isn't really the important part. Any plug that offers a very short ground electrode would work.
 
IMGP2255rs.jpg

This is an old pic of one in an old set of Champion plugs out of my engine. This is what my old plugs look like when I change them out. Methanol is such a great fuel. The copper color on the threads is anti-seize. This is a very cold plug. For gasoline, you would want to use a hotter heat range to burn off carbon deposits.
Notice the very short, fat ground strap. Short to the point that this plug is really a side gap plug. This is how they come, out of the box. No modifications required. Very remote chance of turning the end of this ground strap incondescent and having it cause preignition with a touchy tuneup. Believe me, I know this from experience. You'd swear I was trying in more than a few hairy runs I've made where the tuneup went awry. Came out of them with absolutely no damage. I owe it all to these plugs.
Imagine being halfway through the quarter and the fueling goes to high 13s to one for the rest of the pass. Could you faster gas/alky guys get away with that? I really doubt it. And, if I had been using the NGKs, the video in my sig would have turned out to be a video of me scattering my motor all over the top end of the track. Yes. In the video in my sig, halfway down the track the engine leaned out big time due to two problems that surfaced with my fuel system. You can hear the engine lean surging after the 1,000 ft. mark. I would not have gotten away with that with the NGKs. The ground electrode would have got too hot and would have lit off a preignition spectacle for all to witness.
 
I've brought this spark plug thing up before. I sure hope some start paying attention.
 
This thread has motivated me to move the AFR target on my TT chip to 10.0 :D

Set it at 10.6 right now for 20psi just messing around with it until I can get the ET streets on it. Lots of good info in here.
 
DonWG said:
View attachment 153892
This is an old pic of one in an old set of Champion plugs out of my engine. This is what my old plugs look like when I change them out. Methanol is such a great fuel. The copper color on the threads is anti-seize. This is a very cold plug. For gasoline, you would want to use a hotter heat range to burn off carbon deposits.
Notice the very short, fat ground strap. Short to the point that this plug is really a side gap plug. This is how they come, out of the box. No modifications required. Very remote chance of turning the end of this ground strap incondescent and having it cause preignition with a touchy tuneup. Believe me, I know this from experience. You'd swear I was trying in more than a few hairy runs I've made where the tuneup went awry. Came out of them with absolutely no damage. I owe it all to these plugs.
Imagine being halfway through the quarter and the fueling goes to high 13s to one for the rest of the pass. Could you faster gas/alky guys get away with that? I really doubt it. And, if I had been using the NGKs, the video in my sig would have turned out to be a video of me scattering my motor all over the top end of the track. Yes. In the video in my sig, halfway down the track the engine leaned out big time due to two problems that surfaced with my fuel system. You can hear the engine lean surging after the 1,000 ft. mark. I would not have gotten away with that with the NGKs. The ground electrode would have got too hot and would have lit off a preignition spectacle for all to witness.
Click to expand...
If the cylinder is getting hot enough to melt electrodes it's hot enough to melt pistons. The difference is less than a couple seconds.
 
DonWG said:
View attachment 153892
Imagine being halfway through the quarter and the fueling goes to high 13s to one for the rest of the pass. Could you faster gas/alky guys get away with that? I really doubt it.
Click to expand...

Why would the fueling go 13:1 halfway through the pass? If something is wrong, the 13:1 would show up out of the gate. Poor planning is no excuse. I did a Weldon and better fuel lines to feed and return without restriction. I run with a full tank of 93. I check alky level and top it off before each run. I hit the alky test button before each run (even on the street when getting on it). My casper's knock guage lights up like 4th of July if there is any problem detected under boost. I also glance during the run at the wideband digital gauge to make sure it starts with a 10.xx. There are a few checklist items to lessen the chances for a 13:1 A/F. My TT chip auto corrects fueling to compensate as needed to keep the target A/F and I run bigger injectors and pump than I probably need at the moment. And no, 13:1 won't last for the whole run on a 93/alky TR
 
bison said:
If the cylinder is getting hot enough to melt electrodes it's hot enough to melt pistons. The difference is less than a couple seconds.
Click to expand...
When dealing with alcohol, the time it takes to say 'POP' is all it takes to do damage associated with preignition. Most people will get out of the throttle when they hear the 'POP'.
 
This is the information on the Champion racing spark plug.
14mm thread
3/4" reach
5/8 hex
regular gap
Gasket seal
Stock # 293
Part # C53CX
Will fit M&A heads I know for sure.
 
TurboTnZ06 said:
Why would the fueling go 13:1 halfway through the pass? If something is wrong, the 13:1 would show up out of the gate. Poor planning is no excuse. I did a Weldon and better fuel lines to feed and return without restriction. I run with a full tank of 93. I check alky level and top it off before each run. I hit the alky test button before each run (even on the street when getting on it). My casper's knock guage lights up like 4th of July if there is any problem detected under boost. I also glance during the run at the wideband digital gauge to make sure it starts with a 10.xx. There are a few checklist items to lessen the chances for a 13:1 A/F. My TT chip auto corrects fueling to compensate as needed to keep the target A/F and I run bigger injectors and pump than I probably need at the moment. And no, 13:1 won't last for the whole run on a 93/alky TR
Click to expand...
This makes me smile. In the world of mechanics and electronics, there is always going to be some situation that cannot be accounted for ahead of time. The run in my sig is a very good example of a perfect storm. Something you cannot prepare for. I have a thread in the timeslip section that has the datalog posted of this run. You think 13:1 won't last for most of a 1/4 mile pass? Welcome to my world. I didn't think it was possible either. Study the datalog. It's very clear. You can even see the rpm surging in the datalog during the last section of the run. That run yielded an 8.76 ET! I know. Impossible, right? You think I wasn't pulling plugs soon after I was able to study the datalog when I got back to the pits? You can bet I pulled every single plug. I was expecting the worst. I know what I would have found if those NGKs were in there. Not to mention, I probably would have had to of been towed back to the pits. I even scoped the cylinders when I got back to the shop. NOTHING. The plugs laughed at me. "What did you pull us for? See, we're fine." I changed them out anyway. It was truly an amazing experience. One I don't wish on anyone. But, the experience did teach me a whole bunch. I am stuck on these Champion plugs.
The situations that caused my lean out episode;
The signal line to the fuel regulator developed a leak. Fuel pressure was not rising properly in relation to boost rise. That's not all.
I run a voltage booster for the fuel pump. I depend on it to supply the needed volume of fuel this engine drinks. It is set to come on at around 5 psi boost and the setting is at max voltage boost (50%). One of the wire terminal ends burned at the relay that controls the voltage booster. It was like a conspiracy brought about by the Champion plugs. "We're going to show you just what we can do for you, sucker."

I do not use O2 correction at all. I do not use any sort of a/f warning device. My experience with alcohol has taught me that if alcohol wants to bite you, it's going to do the deed way before you can react to any lights or buzzers. 'POP!' That's been my experience. That's how fast it happens.
 
I might give these plugs a try next time I pull them out. Mine looked clean a few weeks ago when I took a look. I tend to get on the alky a lot cruising around on the street and its a dual nozzle. I try to keep it simple on my car. One big fuel pump hotwired, let the wideband correct fueling for WOT boost variances and LS7 MAF + translator for cruising using the stock computer. Of course my car is slow for now.
 
Here's the datalog of the run that should have left my engine scattered about the track. The 3 bar map sensor that was on the car at the time was also being tapped out.
876 run Firebirdrs.JPG
 
Robert Wilson said:
Not adding fuel to the front cylinders and no power plate, just an open spacer. I have had an EGT probe in #6 and now have the same probe in #2 with 25 degrees C difference between the two cylinders.
Click to expand...

Be nice to see egt comparison with a pp.

The pump gas/alky motors that I disassemble show the head gaskets on #2 taking a beating more than #1. Had they not been Cometics, they would have blown for sure.

RL
 
TurboBob said:
which pressure sensor are you using for the alky, the channel is pegging in PL.

Bob
Click to expand...
Need to step up to 200 PSI sensors :eek:

Never thought guys would be pushing pressures up.. nice to see a healthy pump doing its job :)
 
DonWG said:
This is what you fellas need. A nozzle pointing directly into each intake runner.
Notice the extravagant design of the plate I use to equalize airflow to the cylinders.
This view is looking through the throttlebody. You can see the throttle blade at the upper edge of the picture (blurry).

imgp1404rs-jpg.69137
Click to expand...
i can't see this picture can you please repost it or E-mail it to me?
thanks
 
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