Noob here, what oil should I use?

[jiho2]

( I'm not going to say what brand )

Why not?

"Noob" and "what oil" in the same breath ....

 

[hensleyt]

I live where oil choice is limited
So what I have our three to choose from
VR1 racing
Royal Purple HPS and XPR
These are the only high performance oils ,all have about the same amounts of zinc and phosphorous
Dose the choosing get easier ,NO

 

[Quik Six]

so low zinc...
will add a Centrum multivitamin to have all the zinc required.

is there any hard proof that confirms that an engine without zzdp will destroy its lifters or whatever parts?

i know turbo buick guys locally that have been using off the shelf oils with no additives since day one without any problems.

Since these cars are pretty old, I'd recommend that you use Centrum Silver.

 

[Quik Six]

The only "proof" I have is that we have built a few hundred engines with new flat tappet cams, and I know of only 3 of them that had issues, one at 10K, another at 25K and do not remember the mileage of the third one, but the common oil was Mobil I.

The performance cam manufactures state in their instructions "DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL".

An original engine 1n 1986-7 was most likely NOT run with synthetic at least for a long while, so it was then well broken in and that includes valve springs?

You must also consider the when building a new engine or updating an existing one, the old, original valve springs are then about 60#'s on the seat, and most owners want 100-110#'s when they replace their springs.

I challenge you with this statement, give me one benefit of using synthetic oil in our turbo cars?

There are many reasons I can give you NOT to use synthetic oil, but the most common sense one is it is a waste of $$$, as it will become contaminated just as fast as regular oil so there will be no extended interval to changing the oil.

Nick: Same kind of rules apply to other places on these cars. Used RP in the differential and. after a few years, it began to morph into a peg leg so I ordered a new Eaton unit. I had told my mechanic he could have the old unit if he installed the new one. When he opened the box to install the new unit, he called me and said there was a warning label that said "DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC GEAR FLUID" in the differential so I tanked the RP lubricant. His son had acquired a peg leg GN so he and his dad cleaned up the old Eaton unit and it worked fine.

Phil Engle

 

[m233roller]

All synthetics are not the same. All conventionals are not the same. To refuse to use all synthetics because of a bad experience with one is short sighted. If all synthetics are bad, all Nascar engines would explode well before the races ended.

Yup, I guess I'm short sighted BUT how many cams have you replaced for nothing ? I'm not here to get in a pissing match about what oil to use as I could care less what oil a person uses, I simply stated some of my experiences. I'm really not one for going back for more once Iv'e had a bad experience with something. Right Nick ? I'm willing to bet that Iv'e spent as much money if not more than most on this board having different brands of oil analyzed. tested , ect. I hope your BROAD minded enough to see my point. And by the way comparing Nascar engines to these wimpy ass V/6's is kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[m233roller]

Why not?

"Noob" and "what oil" in the same breath ....

As I stated above, I'm not here to get in a pissing match on what brand of oil to use as there are lots of good oils out there. I simply stated my experience with one brand of synthetic oil.

 

[Ttype6]

I simply stated my experience with one brand of synthetic oil.

Then you condemned all synthetic oils.

 

[Ttype6]

And by the way comparing Nascar engines to these wimpy ass V/6's is kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

I didn't compare the engines. I gave an example of an extreme situation where synthetic oils are used. If those engines can be protected with synthetic oil,surely our wimpy ass V6 engines wouldn't create any stresses over and above what these synthetic oils have been shown to handle extremely well. In the light of this overwhelming body of evidence of these oils abilities to protect these engines,are you sure you want to condemn all synthetics?

 

[m233roller]

I'm not in the habit of getting my ass handed to me twice and if you as many on here have had good results with synthetic oil or oils have at it. As I also stated I really don't care what oil you use. DONE !!

 

[V6sleeper]

As quick as we do and should change our oil ,in my case every 500-800 miles or 3-4 times a season, it would matter less on which one we use then on letting it run out to 2500+ miles and viscosity break down imo

 

[RobsIron]

Little has been said as to what weight to use. I used to be a 20w50 guy for years and never had any trouble. When a street engine is running there is virtually almost no wear. I 'm concerned more about cold starts. Been using 5w40 to take advantage of the quicker flow rate of the 5 on start and the 'meatier' 40 while running.

Dino oils today are as good as synthetics were 40 years ago. For me I run synthetic with conventional Lucas additive. Another option is dino oil with synthetic Lucas additive or use a synthetic blend and get the benefits of both.

 

[GNRick]

Yup you are absolutely correct as there are many, many factors that go along with all this oil science. I personally won't use a synthetic oil and here's why. I had two guys right here in Spokane that I built new engines for and they both just had to have Mobil 1 synthetic in there engines after cam break in and with in 2 to 3 thousand miles both lost flat tappet cams. I fixed both of these engines with the exact same flat tappet cams but gave NO warranty if they went back to synthetic oils. Well this has been several years ago now and using a good conventional oil ( I'm not going to say what brand ) both engines are running just fine.

Mike- was ZDDPlus added to that Mobile 1? I believe that Mobile 1 has reduced the zinc just like most other oils. Reason I ask is because the GSXtra ran an article 8- 10 years ago about which is the best oil to use. Lassiter interviewed a Mobile 1 engineer who recommended their motorcycle oil because it had more zinc. Now if ZDDPlus was added to the Mobile 1 that your customers used then my argument goes out the window.

 

[m233roller]

Rick, I remember that article and didn't put much merit in it because if it's good to run in a car engine why doesn't it say for motorcycle and car engines ? Pretty simple, just as diesel oils, they have different chemical make up's. No I did not ad anything to the Mobil 1 synthetic. And the funny thing about all this oil jib is lots of people say well it's got plenty of zinc and phosphorus in it, it says so on the can. Well when they start talking, advertising numbers I'll believe them.

 

[GNRick]

They couldn't recommend it on the container for car engines because it had too much zinc for modern cars! Actually a few years before that article came out, a friend of mine got his engine rebuilt by a famous builder on the East coast. Even back then, my friend was warned against Mobil 1 due to lack of zinc/phosphorus.

 

[2QUICK2B6]

synthetic royal purple ..... rotella... cant go wrong as long as u don't use quakerstate

 

[2QUICK2B6]

ive said my gains with royal purple first 500 miles .... I use rotella to break a motor in ....... castroil isn't bad

 

[Mike Licht]

Mike, I really do not give a damn what Morel says, but we have NEVER seen an issue with heavier oil?

Have seen many issues with too light an oil, especially on roller cams because the psi loading on the roller bearings and roller-to-cam is extremely high especially at high RPM and boost.

The cast hydraulic roller cam can and will show lots of wear if taken to the limit after lots of miles or runs.

We have used 20W-50 for lots of years in street and race cars and I care less about what some tech guy behind a desk states, and our reliability with engines has show to work well.

A 5w-40 oil will drain like water when hot as compared to 20w-50.

Nick, I am sure you are far more knowledgeable that John Callies (former owner of Callies crankshaft now head of Morel) when it come to oil and engines. But it will cause noise problems on some hydraulic roller lifters which was my point. I will go back under my rock since the info from the manufacturer (not some desk jockey) is not wanted here. I will let John know we were wrong, thanks for straightening us out.

 

[John Wilde]

Guys,

Since this is a public forum for the exchange of ideas and experience, let's minimize making blanket statements undermining someone else's contribution.

 

[bison]

I've been asked 100's of times what kind of oil I use. My answer is oil. No specific brand or anything. I use enough viscosity to get 12psi/1000rpm and if the car has a flat cam I add zddp. I've never had a bearing problem. If you want to make any decent power and have longevity you shouldn't be running a flat cam in a Buick anyway. The #3 ex lifter location is an engineering oversight and because of it the lifter will not spin as fast as the others. I've seen many wasted #3 ex lobes regardless of oil. I personally would not run a flat cam without adding zinc even if it was a show car put around cream puff. Oil doesn't matter much. Kind of like spark plugs. Either the oil is there providing a hydraulic wedge or it's not. Spark plugs have a gap that has to be jumped by the ignition. Neirher is going to make or break an engine. I've made 140mph 93/alky passes while using crappy 10w-30/10w-40 mixed conventional oil while running those crappy regular autolite plugs. When people start worrying more about their tuning and fuel system they will start saving some $$$. IVe never seen an engine fail because of the oil that was in it. Plenty of melted engines due to error in tuning and failed fuel system components.

 

[m233roller]

They couldn't recommend it on the container for car engines because it had too much zinc for modern cars! Actually a few years before that article came out, a friend of mine got his engine rebuilt by a famous builder on the East coast. Even back then, my friend was warned against Mobil 1 due to lack of zinc/phosphorus.

How much is to much ?? I also wonder if that famous engine builder ever had Mobil 1 analyzed to see what ppm was in it ?