Refresh engine

[Pierre]

Help!
I’m resealing my GNs engine and adding few power parts.
Engine is completely stock now.
I need help with gasket parts numbers to make sure I’ll get the right stuff.
Head gaskets, head bolts/studs.
Main seal and oil pan and timing cover gaskets.

Ad ones.
Ta49 turbo
60lb injectors/chip
212/212 cam
Double roller timing chain
Valve springs.

Do I need to port my heads?

Also what all you think about the crank and rod bearings chape?
Thanks in advance!

I’ve been messing with this cars for a wile, but never too deep on the engine.

 

[LANDAU LIMITED]

Did you have head gasket or valve issues? If you don't and haven't removed the heads leave them alone. I did the same thing you're doing. I just replaced all the gaskets except the head gaskets. I also left the factory cam in until I build a real engine. I also did the timing chain, front cover, tensioner,bearings, cam buttons, valve springs, seals, rear main seal and a host of other things. I did a search on whatever I was doing and picked what I thought would be the best parts and what has to be done. I did other things when it was out also, cleaned up the mess and made it look presentable along with new vacuum lines ( zip tied) vacuum brakes, dual fans, external oil and trans coolers and other things. When done I saw 4 inches more vacuum and my oil pressure went from 8 psi with 20w50 to 25psi with 10w30. Plus it doesn't overheat anymore. I put a stock cleaned out radiator and a flowcooler pump along with the intrepid fans.

 

[Pierre]

Did you have head gasket or valve issues? If you don't and haven't removed the heads leave them alone. I did the same thing you're doing. I just replaced all the gaskets except the head gaskets. I also left the factory cam in until I build a real engine. I also did the timing chain, front cover, tensioner,bearings, cam buttons, valve springs, seals, rear main seal and a host of other things. I did a search on whatever I was doing and picked what I thought would be the best parts and what has to be done. I did other things when it was out also, cleaned up the mess and made it look presentable along with new vacuum lines ( zip tied) vacuum brakes, dual fans, external oil and trans coolers and other things. When done I saw 4 inches more vacuum and my oil pressure went from 8 psi with 20w50 to 25psi with 10w30. Plus it doesn't overheat anymore. I put a stock cleaned out radiator and a flowcooler pump along with the intrepid fans.

Just removed the heads right before look at the message

 

[Sweet6]

I would port the heads if you are this far into it. That was one of my favorite upgrades.

 

[BEATAV8]

That bearing shows some heavy wear.
Replacement flat tappet cams have an alarmingly high failure rate in these engines. Upgrading to a small roller cam with Johnson lifters and a good valve spring would be the way to go.

 

[TIMINATOR]

Port the intake also if you port the heads, the intake runners are much smaller than the heads. The EGR boss in the upper and lower reduce the effective plenum volume and affect flow and cylinder balance. Adding plenum volume reduces the need for a bigger throttlebody. By having more plenum volume, there is more available air to charge the cylinder whose intake valve is open without having to use as much air coming thru the throttlebody restriction. The plenum can recharge while all intake valves are closed between events. This is why on some combos, installing a larger throttlebody does not provide measurable gains. Definatly add a distribution plate between the plenum and manifold too. Removing the EGR boss makes even more difference with use of the plate because of the percentage increase in volume below the plate. Savvy racers measure the boost difference above and below the plate too, you don't need to.
Porting and smoothing the inside of the plenum adds to the volume also.
You are nowhere this point, but knowlege is (and adds) power!
Porting the existing throttlebody is also a good thing. Going to a 70 mm t body slows the air into the plenum, and that allows the air to make an easier 90 degree transition down into the plenum, and also another easier transition at 75 degrees into the runners. Some have run a larger 70mm upper with a ported stock throttlebody (requires a custom fabbed adaptor and redrilling the mounting studs) to gain more upper plenum volume and better transition without the need for an AXIS box to account for the larger airflow per degree of throttlebody rotation with the 70mm.
For you now, while things are apart, have someone that KNOWS airflow do a quality, not quantity of airflow port to the heads, remove the EGR boss if legal where you are, port the T body, and port match the intake to the heads.
And definatly add a port distributation plate!
Polish the crank(not you! A machine shop!) And replace the bearings while you are in there.
Do a quality valvejob, light surface to the heads, and if the cash is there, a Comp 212/212 flat tappet cam will get you as much as you likely will ever want. FOLLOW THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS! Pre lube the cam, add ZDDP additive when you do the cam, and EVERY oil change!
Then you will not likely ever need to go into the motor again.
Add bolt ons (to the engine, not the significant other) or both, if you get bored.....

TIMINATOR

 

[BEATAV8]

here's a few part numbers:
ARP 123-4203 head studs 12pt
103-C5700-094 cometic oil pan gasket
C-5708 cometic front cover gasket
MS9603 felpro intake gasket
BS40613 felpro rear main seal (use rightstuff rtv to fill & seal side cavities)

headgaskets I use only cometic but to use them you need to have fresh surfaces on the block and heads. Otherwise felpro 9441 is an option, and there are others as well.

 

[john turbo]

Help!
I’m resealing my GNs engine and adding few power parts.
Engine is completely stock now.
I need help with gasket parts numbers to make sure I’ll get the right stuff.
Head gaskets, head bolts/studs.
Main seal and oil pan and timing cover gaskets.

Ad ones.
Ta49 turbo
60lb injectors/chip
212/212 cam
Double roller timing chain
Valve springs.

Do I need to port my heads?

Also what all you think about the crank and rod bearings chape?
Thanks in advance!

I’ve been messing with this cars for a wile, but never too deep on the engine.
View attachment 396043View attachment 396044

I have ARP head bolts new only used to set up never ran engine

 

[LANDAU LIMITED]

Check your front cam bearing also. Mine was grooved so deep I had to lift the cam perfectly centered to remove it. I just tapped in a new one. That was a tip from bison I found. Your best tool in your toolbox is the search function on google or this site.

 

[TIMINATOR]

To use Cometic or other MLS headgaskets trouble free, the manufacturers recommend a freshly machined head AND deck (might as well have it BHJ fixtured so its done correctly) only with a CBN diamond mill, NOT an old timey broach!
The scratchy and waved surface left by a broach will not allow the MLS gaskets to effectively seal water or combustion pressures. The pic shows a broached surface lightly milled (one pass) with a CBN tooled mill. Notice the gouges and waves left by the broach, MLS gaskets will not seal this!
TIMINATOR

 

[Mr.Spool]

Help!
I’m resealing my GNs engine and adding few power parts.
Engine is completely stock now.
I need help with gasket parts numbers to make sure I’ll get the right stuff.
Head gaskets, head bolts/studs.
Main seal and oil pan and timing cover gaskets.

Ad ones.
Ta49 turbo
60lb injectors/chip
212/212 cam
Double roller timing chain
Valve springs.

Do I need to port my heads?

Also what all you think about the crank and rod bearings chape?
Thanks in advance!

I’ve been messing with this cars for a wile, but never too deep on the engine.
View attachment 396043View attachment 396044

That cam chouce of 212 212 is not the cam to run with 49 turbos on these motors.
If you ported the heads it will drop boost down a few lbs to make the same power.
But...
The same power will be made with higher boost.
The 49 turbo spools so fast and cast wheel design makes it's a great match for a stock camshaft or something in the 200/206 range at most.
Going to a bigger cam moves peak power up and the 49 turbo needs it lower.
If you go with a bigger turbo 62mm minimum,
improving the ve of the motor with basically everything timinator said to do you would see major horsepower improvements by extending cam range and headflow.
But on a 49 turbo the bigger cam will slow the car down
Doing the heads will not if kept iron but they aren't needed as the stock head will go just as fast.
The boost number will just change.
We saw a 4 lb drop with ported irons on a 49 car over stock with boost ranges up and over 30psi.
Cars etd the same with the same mph.
back in the day many of us played on these combos with 49 turbos.
Weight of the cars were very similar.
The fastest 49 cars ended up being stock cam cars with iron heads I went 10.6@125+mph.
Along with several others that ran 10s.
The aluminums slowed the cars down along with bigger cams.

 

[TIMINATOR]

I agree with Mr.Spool, but I prefer to make the same power with less boost. Less boost means less octane requirement, less heat, and faster spool to the same HP.
I'm in Phx,AZ. So the heat and octane is more important here.
Different ways to skin the same cat.
Lots of ways to accomplish the same thing, but the most important thing is to have a plan by a known builder/ owner/ experienced enthusiast, that has done what you are after with a similar budget, and follow his advice.
The quickest way to disappointment is mix and match ideas from several different folks, that only results in grief!
Mr. Spool is one of the most experienced members on here, having done many different builds for many folks. We are in different climates, his is more relatable to most of the U.S. than our hot and dry climate.
P.S. "boost is simply power that hasn't gotten past the intake valve.
TIMINATOR

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

That main bearing sure looks like it has 'tight' spots.

 

[Pierre]

That cam chouce of 212 212 is not the cam to run with 49 turbos on these motors.
If you ported the heads it will drop boost down a few lbs to make the same power.
But...
The same power will be made with higher boost.
The 49 turbo spools so fast and cast wheel design makes it's a great match for a stock camshaft or something in the 200/206 range at most.
Going to a bigger cam moves peak power up and the 49 turbo needs it lower.
If you go with a bigger turbo 62mm minimum,
improving the ve of the motor with basically everything timinator said to do you would see major horsepower improvements by extending cam range and headflow.
But on a 49 turbo the bigger cam will slow the car down
Doing the heads will not if kept iron but they aren't needed as the stock head will go just as fast.
The boost number will just change.
We saw a 4 lb drop with ported irons on a 49 car over stock with boost ranges up and over 30psi.
Cars etd the same with the same mph.
back in the day many of us played on these combos with 49 turbos.
Weight of the cars were very similar.
The fastest 49 cars ended up being stock cam cars with iron heads I went 10.6@125+mph.
Along with several others that ran 10s.
The aluminums slowed the cars down along with bigger cams.

So I better do bearings and rings since is already out. And leave tha cam alone. Right?
Is it worth it to put cometic head gaskets and arp bolts? New double roller chain? TIA!

 

[chris romani]

So I better do bearings and rings since is already out. And leave tha cam alone. Right?
Is it worth it to put cometic head gaskets and arp bolts? New double roller chain? TIA!

You cannot put Cometic headgaskets on unless the block and heads have been machined.

 

[Pierre]

You cannot put Cometic headgaskets on unless the block and heads have been machined.

Got it. Thanks!

Felpro gaskets with arp bolts may hold a wile I think

 

[chris romani]

Got it. Thanks!

Felpro gaskets with arp bolts may hold a wile I think

There was my Felpro 9941’s on a ported heads studded motor with ALKY at 25psi.No Detonation no lean out and perfect fuel delivery. We called FELPRO and spoke with a rep he said he wouldent use these gaskets on anything above 18ps there not going to hold that type of cylinder pressure the cars are old now and these no reason FELPRO would need to make a gasket for that type of boost.

 

[Pierre]

There was my Felpro 9941’s on a ported heads studded motor with ALKY at 25psi.No Detonation no lean out and perfect fuel delivery. We called FELPRO and spoke with a rep he said he wouldent use these gaskets on anything above 18ps there not going to hold that type of cylinder pressure the cars are old now and these no reason FELPRO would need to make a gasket for that type of boost.

So no way around. I have to surface both

 

[Pierre]

There was my Felpro 9941’s on a ported heads studded motor with ALKY at 25psi.No Detonation no lean out and perfect fuel delivery. We called FELPRO and spoke with a rep he said he wouldent use these gaskets on anything above 18ps there not going to hold that type of cylinder pressure the cars are old now and these no reason FELPRO would need to make a gasket for that type of boost.

Or any other gaskets that I can use without doing the block?

 

[TIMINATOR]

Not and live reliably with boost!
While it's at the machineshop have them check the line bore for straightness and size. If it needs to be done, get ARP studs too. You can't add them later without relinehoning it. The bores of the caps will be distorted from the higher clamp load that studs provide. Spend the $$$ on the studs if it needs the linehone done. Have them also check the crank for straightness, size, and polish or grind it if required. Clevite bearings will usually have tighter clearances than ACL or King if you end up only polishing the crank.
TIMINATOR