Dyno test results when injecting 100% methanol 50/50 water/meth mix 80/20 etc.

You are one of two who introduced this to me a few years ago. After that I started googling. I think you also provided a link or two to click on.I think I also acknowledged you as being one of two who introduced this to the TB community. Do you believe that? No power gain on a Buick. 1,800 hp gain on a R2800.I guess it bears saying again.
It's an apples to oranges comparison. I wonder how water is able to lower the temps of a house fire?
What's funny about it is that the way the air charge is cooled while it's being compressed and stays suspended in the air better. There were several threads over on Eng-tips forums with temp drop data that suprised me. With the 50/50 mix it works so much better and uses less fluid to do the same thing as just alky. There's several engineers working on improving the cooling of the air and trying to make more power out of engines these day and they're not just American either. The Swiss guys seem to have the most going on for some reason though.:cool:
 
With the 50/50 mix it works so much better and uses less fluid to do the same thing as just alky.


the straight methanol has been PROVEN in the real word of Buicks.. Don't see any 50/50 cars for the gazillionth time. This is almost like talking to kids we had working construction during there summer vacations. They were all "book smart" but couldn't pound a nail in :confused:
 
What's funny about it is that the way the air charge is cooled while it's being compressed and stays suspended in the air better. There were several threads over on Engforums with temp drop data that suprised me. With the 50/50 mix it works so much better and uses less fluid to do the same thing as just alky. There's several engineers working on improving the cooling of the air and trying to make more power out of engines these day and they're not just American either. The Swiss guys seem to have the most going on for some reason though.:cool:

Cooling air while it is being compressed. It Just doesn't sound logical,does it. I'll take a look at the forum you mentioned. I don't think our ignition would allow us to take total advantage of water. It looks like we'd need a capacitive discharge ignition. I am eagerly awaiting Mr.Bailey's ignition Box.We'll see.
 
the straight methanol has been PROVEN in the real word of Buicks.. Don't see any 50/50 cars for the gazillionth time.

Again I don't believe anyone said otherwise. Why do you bring this up again? Why the name calling?
 
Send me the insurance $ and I'll get real numbers.
If your doing IAT's.. the dyno wont give enough time. For example my car on a dyno barely goes up in temp. Yet will go up 30 degree's going down a track.
 
the straight methanol has been PROVEN in the real word of Buicks.. Don't see any 50/50 cars for the gazillionth time. This is almost like talking to kids we had working construction during there summer vacations. They were all "book smart" but couldn't pound a nail in :confused:
And yet there are others out there that are using it. Just because one group doesn't use it doesn't mean it's not viable Dan. This dissagreement reminds me of the dirt track guys. I've been arguing with them for years to go to an LS type engine. They can spend less than $2K on an engine and have a better one than the SBC old style that they insist on using.:rolleyes: The problem is that they don't seem to believe that the SBC isn't going to be back. Changes are hard to take sometimes but the guys that are doing the research are doing it not only on paper but have dyno time proving it. I guess I'm just going to have to dig up the links I've posted before with the data and dyno runs on video.:confused:
 
Cooling air while it is being compressed. It Just doesn't sound logical,does it. I'll take a look at the forum you mentioned. I don't think our ignition would allow us to take total advantage of water. It looks like we'd need a capacitive discharge ignition. I am eagerly awaiting Mr.Bailey's ignition Bow.We'll see.
As the air goes through the compressor the water and alky go through at the same time. It's atomized to an even finer mist and as the wheel spins centrifigal rotation act just like a big fan, cooling the air while it's being compressed. Bringing Smokey up again on his Fiero experiment where he use a draw through carb/turbo system on a 2.5 liter engine producing more than twice the original HP and 50 MPG, documented. He never had an over heating issue but did have an issue with getting the engine warm enough to operate properly. And did it on 5PSI to boot.:D
 
As the air goes through the compressor the water and alky go through at the same time. It's atomized to an even finer mist and as the wheel spins centrifigal rotation act just like a big fan, cooling the air while it's being compressed.

A good example of this is a roots type blower with carburetors on top. This set-up always injects into the compressor. I've seen frost build up on the blower body that you could scrape off with a knife on a hot humid summer day. When you see this for the first time,it seems very odd.
 
I would, like to see a test w/a preturbo nozzle spraying methanol. Since I already have a methanol kit w/methanol in the tank. Easy to plumb in then.

I would also like to see a test w/a preturbo nozzle & H2O also if possible. It would be a good thing to see the results of both IMO.
 
If your doing IAT's.. the dyno wont give enough time. For example my car on a dyno barely goes up in temp. Yet will go up 30 degree's going down a track.
I don't care about IAT much since it's not a good indicator of anything with any pre sensor injection. I've ran compressor wheels to the point the power went backwards even though they were still making more boost but the IAT never changed much. My argument was power. I'm arguing that the water injection will not extend or move the compressor map. If it did I would see power on what i may be testing it on since I'm going to run it all out and the engine will easily
swallow the compressor.
 
Again I don't believe anyone said otherwise. Why do you bring this up again? Why the name calling?


name calling ??? All I can hear is what "they" say and what "they " do.. I just wanted to know who is DOIN this with a BUICK.. Very simple question in my book. :confused: ok I am done here. Have fun with all the theorys and the woulda coulda shoulda's.
 
A good example of this is a roots type blower with carburetors on top. This set-up always injects into the compressor. I've seen frost build up on the blower body that you could scrape off with a knife on a hot humid summer day. When you see this for the first time,it seems very odd.
That's a very good point. Most on the board vagely remember what a carb is or how it works.:rolleyes: The pressuer drop over the venturies and the fuel going through them can actually freeze up. It's not a comon problem with most cars but it does happen on bikes and air planes. The reason it happens is because of the fuel and the speed of the air removing tempreture from the air. if you do basically the same with a turbo the mixture will drop the inlet and outlet of the turbo more efficiently.
 
In this video they're shooting H2O into the compressor with a pretty big nozzle I'm guessing. The comments are interesting, on page 2 it says they picked up 1.2 psi due to better efficiency.

 
I don't care about IAT much since it's not a good indicator of anything with any pre sensor injection. I've ran compressor wheels to the point the power went backwards even though they were still making more boost but the IAT never changed much. My argument was power. I'm arguing that the water injection will not extend or move the compressor map. If it did I would see power on what i may be testing it on since I'm going to run it all out and the engine will easily
swallow the compressor.


I'd like to chime in that this discussion lacks context. Preturbo injection was used on f1 cars whose sole goal was to meet turbo regulation size while making the most power. In jet turbines its about making ambit more flow for takeoff without have to stuff a larger turbine into the existing space.

I agree that in a drag rsce situation the goal is to size the turbo to the rpm range and gearing of the car or vice versa. It's also a lot easier to run a bigger intercooler. But in cases where instant throttle response necessitates a smaller turbine and compressor preturbo would be logical to reduce pumping loses since you gain the benefit of reducing the energy required to spin the turbine like in scca racing or hill climbs.

Also you will see most of its proponents in this venue and even there are skeptics. But the goal wouldn't be maximum torque as much as it would be choosing a turbo that can you accelerate you out of the turn the quickest and then trying to wring out as much flow from that compressor turbine combo.


It's the same debate for twinscroll and why no one with a gn cares. It has its purpose in specific contexts but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. But a twinscroll drag rsce setup makes less sense than a shot of nitrous or launch control which is more effective for the context,
 
Reid-o said:
I'd like to chime in that this discussion lacks context. Preturbo injection was used on f1 cars whose sole goal was to meet turbo regulation size while making the most power. In jet turbines its about making ambit more flow for takeoff without have to stuff a larger turbine into the existing space.

I agree that in a drag rsce situation the goal is to size the turbo to the rpm range and gearing of the car or vice versa. It's also a lot easier to run a bigger intercooler. But in cases where instant throttle response necessitates a smaller turbine and compressor preturbo would be logical to reduce pumping loses since you gain the benefit of reducing the energy required to spin the turbine like in scca racing or hill climbs.

Also you will see most of its proponents in this venue and even there are skeptics. But the goal wouldn't be maximum torque as much as it would be choosing a turbo that can you accelerate you out of the turn the quickest and then trying to wring out as much flow from that compressor turbine combo.

It's the same debate for twinscroll and why no one with a gn cares. It has its purpose in specific contexts but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. But a twinscroll drag rsce setup makes less sense than a shot of nitrous or launch control which is more effective for the context,

50/50 definitely lost power over 100% methanol there was no doubt about it. I made several pulls with 100%, then 50/50, several more pulls, then back to 100% and the power was back. Maybe if I changed the timing strategy I would have recovered some of the lost power without any problems but the engine I used already required heavy timing competitive to what I typically run. Fwiw it's probably the fastest spooling journal turbo setup I've ever driven that trapped over 125mph.
 
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