build a 200-4R for 1,000 HP

quickt

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2001
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I would love to have a 4speed that would handle 800hp all day and no more than the price of a 1000hp plus 350 turbo.:D :D :D
1000 HP 350 would still be a pricey trans. The 4L80 nice unit if you dont mind packing the extra weight.
 

Grumpy

Thread killer
May 24, 2001
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200R4s have come a LONG way in the past few years. 10 years ago I thought running a 10.99 was out of the question!! Today with all the new parts I guess anything is possible. I know I know.. save the $$$ and go with a 400 :eek: I just can't do it .. We need the overdrive for running up to the beach or driving to the track :p I am really impressed with 740hp and having it live threw street driving and racing. That's quite an accomplishment for a crappy 200R4 that was designed for a 300hp car. Of course Russ has done good "throwing" the parts together:eek: :biggrin:
 

SGRIM

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Mar 1, 2005
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well Ill save ya the time and aggravation to do your comparison.. RESULTS..

"Oh Sir we have NEVER had a tranny explode like that before" :p
I agree:biggrin: I had one grenade on me when the D/S broke... Ask Bruce or Mr. Clark what that case did:eek: I was blessed on that one... Of course it wasn't a full billet built tranny either... I would be interested to put one of several of our Trans guys here against that one though...
 

SSedan64

JoaTMoN
Dec 8, 2007
1,555
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Macon, Ga.
What Car Craft Issue was this?? Thanks.
March 2009 issue.

QuickT> Intermediate Drum
Article says At first, he tried a welded bead to fill the area and elimnate the stress riser. It helped but occasional breakage was still an issue. He then considered the metallurgy of the part, after some trial & error, arrived at a proprietary annealing/heat-treatment process that triples the strength. Problem solved. Yeah right? 1000HP??
8 Clutch Direct, Heat Treated Drum, 300M Input Shaft, Hardened Stator,
3 Clutch OD, 2.725" Servo, Blocked 1-2 Acucumulator, Red CPT Band.
 

Alky V6

Let's go racing, boyz!
Jul 29, 2001
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Santee, CA
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I hear you don,however we are dual feeding ,using a billet aluminum piston and using .091"thick steels.when dual feeding your not too far behind the 400.if I put the 078"in i can get another disc.
In the comparison of the 200 and 400 I was assuming dual feeding with both. With a 1000+hp 400, you'd better be dual feeding that sucker too.
Have you checked the apply surface area of the pistons of the 200 and 400, both in dual feeding mode? There's quite a difference there too. The 200 is tiny. Billet or not, the apply area doesn't change, does it?

The direct clutches are a major shortcoming for the 200-4R. I would be solving that problem before I came out with anymore billet parts. The parts aren't going to do any good if the direct keeps frying on ya.

Good luck fellas.
 

Alky V6

Let's go racing, boyz!
Jul 29, 2001
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X2

Another option is the Ford :eek: 4r70w. a 4r70 is a little on the heavy side too.
I wonder how much of the talk about the 4R70W is also marketing hype.

It's plain to anyone that knows 200-4Rs that the mods listed in A/Cs ad article will not handle 1,000hp. For very long. But then, as the saying goes, there's a sucker born every day.
 

boostingbuick

Going to be buried in this.
Aug 25, 2002
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Garner N.C.
Hey Don, the 4r70w trans is a brut. We have one in a 4v mod motor making 980 rwhp that is street driven. Made 100+ passes with all stock hard parts with a aftermarket VB. I am building another one just like it with the same trans. But I would not put it in a Buick. Not worth trying to make it work.
 

Alky V6

Let's go racing, boyz!
Jul 29, 2001
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Hey Don, the 4r70w trans is a brut. We have one in a 4v mod motor making 980 rwhp that is street driven. Made 100+ passes with all stock hard parts with a aftermarket VB. I am building another one just like it with the same trans. But I would not put it in a Buick. Not worth trying to make it work.
What is your opinion of the Lentech units?
 

chris718

Active Member
Dec 10, 2002
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queens,new york city.
Comparisons between the 400 direct drum and the 2004r must be made objectively.There is a great difference in weight between the 2 as well as the work required to be performed by each clutch pack.The 2004r clutch pack has to drive lighter parts ,there is no sprag assembly on the back of the drum.With equal car weights and power outputs , imo our 10 clutch drum is equal to the 4 clutch 400 drum in surface area.a 4 clutch loaded hi drum in a 400 can go all year at 800 plus hp without failures. Now if we installed the clutches from the direct drum of the 200 into a heavier 400 drum they more than likely would fail.This is because of the weight of the drum.
 

Otto J

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2001
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In the comparison of the 200 and 400 I was assuming dual feeding with both. With a 1000+hp 400, you'd better be dual feeding that sucker too.
Have you checked the apply surface area of the pistons of the 200 and 400, both in dual feeding mode? There's quite a difference there too. The 200 is tiny. Billet or not, the apply area doesn't change, does it?

The direct clutches are a major shortcoming for the 200-4R. I would be solving that problem before I came out with anymore billet parts. The parts aren't going to do any good if the direct keeps frying on ya.

Good luck fellas.
When talking piston area to apply plate the billet piston has a HUGE increase as you are no longer using the sheetmetal ring to push on the bottom steel
 

Alky V6

Let's go racing, boyz!
Jul 29, 2001
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Santee, CA
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Comparisons between the 400 direct drum and the 2004r must be made objectively.There is a great difference in weight between the 2 as well as the work required to be performed by each clutch pack.The 2004r clutch pack has to drive lighter parts ,there is no sprag assembly on the back of the drum.With equal car weights and power outputs , imo our 10 clutch drum is equal to the 4 clutch 400 drum in surface area.a 4 clutch loaded hi drum in a 400 can go all year at 800 plus hp without failures. Now if we installed the clutches from the direct drum of the 200 into a heavier 400 drum they more than likely would fail.This is because of the weight of the drum.
The weight of the sprag and outer race doesn't come into the equation because the drum is overrunning through them on the 2-3 shift, but I do see your point. I'll have to weigh the drums.
 

Alky V6

Let's go racing, boyz!
Jul 29, 2001
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Santee, CA
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4r70ws have been holding 900 plus here.kn supercharged 4 valve stroker with spray.We also make a 2.20 planet for the brute.
Your unit must be much more advanced than Lentechs then. A fellow bracket racer at our track has been through two Lentech units this season. NOT CHEAP. A simple BBF. Maybe 800HP. Major hard part failure. Poor guy.
 

chris718

Active Member
Dec 10, 2002
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queens,new york city.
Well if you have an outer race and sprag then youve got an inner race spinning with the drum.The billet piston itself with no other changes improves the 3rd gear shift.This is because of the loss of part deflection in the clutch pack and how the load is applied to the bottom steel.The Lentech stuff is very impressive.:biggrin:
 

Alky V6

Let's go racing, boyz!
Jul 29, 2001
12,802
84
48
Santee, CA
www.drwtransmission.com
Well if you have an outer race and sprag then youve got an inner race spinning with the drum.The billet piston itself with no other changes improves the 3rd gear shift.This is because of the loss of part deflection in the clutch pack and how the load is applied to the bottom steel.The Lentech stuff is very impressive.:biggrin:
The Lentech unit hasn't impressed anyone at our track.

I have a nagging question I have to ask. If 200-4R direct clutch wear is such a non-issue, why are you having to develop a new 10 plate drum for it? It appears to me that the problem is still being fought.
 

chris718

Active Member
Dec 10, 2002
5,309
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queens,new york city.
Hopefully this drum will make things safe up to 800 plus horsepower.I feel the directs is the only place there is a problem up to this point.My 3rd correction kit has 0ed out the overlapping problems that cause flaring on the 2/3.I must go tend to my 4 pound pork loin on the bbq.Don here is the answer to your nagging question,plenty of chopped raw onions,plenty of tzadtziki,sliced vine riped tomatoes,fresh parsley ,feta dodoni and meditterranean pita bread ,toasted of course.