State of the Buick Community: What to keep it from dying? Please check it out???

3. It is. The only way it would be even remotely successful is if you had a local SCCA club put on a school BEFORE letting people run laps. Otherwise you are just going to end up with a cluster f*ck. FWIW, Auto-X is not easier on parts.
We plan to have the first Auto-x at a Buick event in 2012 at the TB.com event. It will be put on by a professional car club that does this all the time, no it's not the SCCA as they were already contacted and they do not have the time to do an event for someone else or to teach school but it will be ran exactly like it with wireless timing equipment and everything.

Friends of mine just put on a Auto-X here for the Dodge Challenger/Charger people and MANY of them never steeped foot on an auto-x course before in their life and it wasn't a cluster f$^%k, as a matter of fact their were 4 girls who done it for the first time and had a complete blast! Just send a passenger who has done this before with them on their first pass to point out the course and everyone will be fine.

SW.
 
Auto X becoming main stay. LSX fest putting together another 4 cars for a 16 car field. Hot Rod points out its growing. Now i want to do it in a TR since ive already done it in a black/white (2007-09 Crown Vics). People have no idea how fun it is to hit a chicane!
 
Believe me starting now till next year in the Buick world is going to get real interesting....
 
What about a open class that requires road course and dragstrip. Figure out how to combine the times together to figure out who wins. Make all cars run the same wheels and tires for both.
 
What about a open class that requires road course and dragstrip. Figure out how to combine the times together to figure out who wins. Make all cars run the same wheels and tires for both.

Could just add up the best of both times and lowest time wins. I would participate in that.
 
We plan to have the first Auto-x at a Buick event in 2012 at the TB.com event. It will be put on by a professional car club that does this all the time, no it's not the SCCA as they were already contacted and they do not have the time to do an event for someone else or to teach school but it will be ran exactly like it with wireless timing equipment and everything.

Friends of mine just put on a Auto-X here for the Dodge Challenger/Charger people and MANY of them never steeped foot on an auto-x course before in their life and it wasn't a cluster f$^%k, as a matter of fact their were 4 girls who done it for the first time and had a complete blast! Just send a passenger who has done this before with them on their first pass to point out the course and everyone will be fine.

SW.

I just see problems with life-time "point and shoot" drivers getting their egos in a twist when they can't understand the dynamics of their own cars. Auto-X is about progression, technique and patience... not balls-out banzai runs. I think it is great that you will have experienced instructors there, and I hope they get to try the G-body platform out first to understand how crappy it is stock or modified.
 
I was always bored with 1/4 mile racing and pretty much why i dont do it. My car leans more towards the corners, not necessarily for auto x. Mr T could lend some advice on the first set of upgrades to do. Brakes im assuming is pretty important. The combined time idea sounds good.
 
Great input guys, I thought starting this thread would have 0 replies but it triggered something that obviously has been on many peoples minds for years. Food for thought below:

1. Saturation of events. I would love to have a meeting of the minds and have 2 events in the year for Buicks. Spring and fall. Stick it at two tracks centrally. I know people from my area complain NC is 1/8th mile but cost is a factor . Zmax is 18k a day. BG and Columbus are both up there as well, it is just not cheap. BG was great for having Tues-Sat racing but cost is just too high nowadays to justify this spending. Make it 3 days. Thurs to Sat and done. Will take a lot to get people to meet up and really put their effort behind 2 events and leave the others behind. Sad to say but this is what it has to be.
2. Central Location- BG, Norwalk, Memphis, Bristol. I vote Norwalk b/c they are the #1 track in the Nation. All the big events and every major manufacturer has an event there. Plus Ohio and Michigan are the top 2 states in the US for car events. I can go to shows cruises and racing 7 days a week from May to October and 8 tracks within 3 hour range, nobody is even close.
3. 24/7 Action- Drag Racing, Auto Cross, Dyno, Car Show, Vendor demonstrations, etc. Constant action i have noticed with radio playing or announcements gets people excited. Nobody wants to sit in lawnchairs all day to stare at parked cars. Gotta keep people interested, keep em excited so they can continue to look forward to the event.
4. Marketing- I hammered Facebook and other sites this year and i dare say with Jim Chaudrue and myself, we promoted a Buick event more so than any other Buick event period. I added people and searched for people who owned TRs or GS to make them get excited about attending and sure quite a few did not attend for various reasons but they knew about the event.
5. Bridge the gap between TR and GS owners- Quite a few own both. Still have the separation. Tom from Champion thought the BPG was only a v8 club. Have to cater to both crowds to keep them happy and dont sure preference over one another. i love both of them equally and besides they both were under-rated for their times so they both deserve equal share of the limelight now.
6. Events with less restrictions- Index classes give everyone a fair shot and cut down on the amount of bickering and anger over tech rules and conforming cars to one class and disputes. Set up a few heads up index classes, a few brackets a quick 8 and make it buick powered or buick bodied. I would love to see will's v8 gs and dusty and louis l and josh white and others bring their cars out. put a damn buick bodied vs buick powered outlaw class together or run them in a king of the track shootout final
7. Vendors/Sponsors- Lots of issue on this post and others about payouts. Many small vendors are on tight incomes to support events. Every dollar is appreciated. Same thing though we may have to look at using other brands to bring in more spectators to bring in gate revenue and other sponsors for their cars to bring more $$ to the table. Tight line though b/c look at Bristol they were Buick oriented did well then went BOP and it sputtered. Thin line in that regard.

Just some thoughts keep the input coming!
 
Tony

I think that if one was gonna have 2 buick events a yr they would need to be one located in the north and in the south. I really feel for the deep south guys due to they have such a far drive to any event. That would make it fair. There are way to many event in the north anyhow.
 
For those all that think class racing is dead because of strict rules, go check out the ths section and see what is being proposed for the the mwbc race in a couple weeks. A ths outlaw race.
 
Kevin I totally agree. Of all the "T" classes out there THS is the largest attended by far as of late, 17 cars alone for BG last year. Wasn't a problem getting a sponsor for it in NC as it was one of the first classes taken by sponsors. Another reason why THS is so popular IMHO is the fact that the 4 fastest cars in the class are less than like five hundrethes of a second away from one another and no single car has stood out as a dominating factor. And as the class stays that way it will continue to have the most racers in it.

I know you personally don't care for index racing, don't know even if you have tried it or even care to give it a shot. To me here is the best setup for a race event at a 1/4 mile track. The reason is to get spectators back in the stands and interested in "side by side" racing. Without spectators to support it the racers wont have any track to race at anyway:

Heads up / .4 pro tree / pro ladder
---------------------------------------------------
Quick 8 (Buick bodied or Buick powered anything goes run what you brung)
Index 1 8.50 (TSO / TSL)
Index 2 9.50 (TSM)
Index 3 10.50 (THS)
Index 4 11.50 (whoever wants to give index racing a try)

regular tree----------------
Bracket 1 (0-11.49)
Bracket 2 (11.50 - up)

To me this represents the future for the Buick community to continue to draw a crowd and for the budget minded racer not wanting to have to try and get his 67 turbo and car into the 9's. Not to mention it it would be TONS easier on parts and still make for an exciting time with great side by side racing for the fans.
 
I always feel BG is the best for hosting events. Everything from the town layout to the covered stands makes it the place to hold an event. It's central for majority of the people attending. You think about all the FL guys. It takes them 5hrs just to get to the FL/GA line. I feel for the guys out west.

I'd hate to see all racing go to index. I'd like to see some heads up classes stick around. There just aren't many guys wanting to push their cars to the level of 9.50 and faster. I thought the payouts would encourage more people to come out but obviously that's not how it is.

It's like alot of the Buick crowd is scared of the pro-tree. Even when we raced TSS and it was a mid-high 10 second class there were less than 8 cars most of the time. That always baffled me.
 
This thread is very sad and correlates to the main problem: self absorbed people. I was glad when the other board "went away" because of all the GSCA bashing. I don't know or care about Richard Lassietter but I do care about Buicks. The GS Nationals is about the cars, racing and friends to me. I have more fun each day there than I do most of the year for very little money........I think most people feel this way, life's too short.

This is my point exactly. It seems that with EVERY discussion concerning these events, historically, someone has to drudge up past hurt feelings and start talking smack about one event or the other, usually its the GS Nationals, in order to promote their own event or agenda. Then, when someone like me steps up and calls them to task, they and their cohorts try to woodpile the offender to further push their own thoughts, however maligned, down our throats. Before you know it, good intentions go out the door and what began as a productive discussion gets flushed down the toilet, much like what started to happen here. If you notice, SGRIM said to get it back on track so I remained quiet, yet Jay blasted off another doozie right behind him further expounding upon his distaste for Lassiter, the GS Nationals and all things GSCA concerning things that may or may not have happened years ago (Jay admitted in his post his info was second hand), so long ago in fact that most here likely know nothing about it in the first place. So much for "getting it back on track". Alas, it never fails. The problem with this is that newcomers to the Buick scene read these internet accusations and BS and either do the smart thing and ignore it altogether, or worse they leave because they dont want to be around a bunch of self serving crybabies, or worse still they believe it because if its on the internet "it must be true". None of which does any of us any good. Why is it so hard to understand you dont have to drag someone thru the mud time and again just to promote your own agenda, event, parts or services, or to make yourself feel more important? This thread was started to toss around ideas to re-invigorate the Buick hobby, Jay C's negative comments dont belong and stick out like a sore thumb, especially coming from the Site Administrator. While you may not admit it, you know I'm right.

That being my point. These discussions need to progress without the mud slinging lest you run the risk of alienating some in the crowd. I have known Jim Haas for years. I remember his event. I also remember him getting internet woodpiled for this or that concerning his event, same for Indy, same for Cal and Holly, I also know the BPG has suffered some of the same over the years. I even recall individual turbo classes and RRA's getting nailed for the turbo go-no-go gauge and the mouth running that ensued. Mike Licht, didnt you get blasted for some Wal-Mart or Wal-Bro fuel pump problems a few years ago? I "heard" from several guys that you didnt stand behind your customers and their fuel pumps? I dont "know" how true any of their accusations were because, like Jay I "heard" it second hand. But do you feel the negative publicity concerning your fuel pumps or your customer service was necessary or productive? How would you feel if the same old guys kept drudging up the same old problems time and again, year after year despite your best efforts? Ever think about how many new potential customers read that on this site and decided it would be best to do business with someone else wether you deserved it or not? I know I wouldnt want to hear about it over and over on the board here and guess what, its the same for the Lassiter, GSCA mess that keeps getting brought up time and again.

It just doesnt do the Buick community any good in the long run and it is the #1 MAIN REASON so many have left our ranks. This negativity trumps the economy, fuel prices, multiple events and everything else as to why our small community is becoming even smaller and why participation at all events is dwindling. Like me, most are just sick of hearing the he said she said BS over and over again. As long as there are those in our midst that continue to dwell on the percieved problems of the past things will never get better.

The road to a brighter future must never be littered with the garbage of the past, lest we lose our way. (These words may go down in history, so make note that I said it first):D

I will chalk this up to just more of the same and I, like many others who have done the same, will now remove myself from this discussion. Life is too short for this.

By the way, my name is Jim Rodgers. I will be in BG in October and I am easy to find. I am always eager to help and to discuss ways to make things better so stop by. We usually have the grill going too, so BYOB because we drink Evan Williams.;) Jay if you want to stop by and get anything off your chest or give me my BG care package feel free to do so. I'm always willing to chat.

Otherwise everyone have a nice day, and Merry Christmas.
 
Sounding like a broken record..

The cars havent been made since 1987. The event is primarily for a car built 2 years. 1986 and 1987. Every year there will be less cars simply by the fact cars get stolen, crushed, burned, etc. And as their value increments due to rarity the less they get pulled out of a garaje, let alone get "tracked". Even for some of us that say "its just a car".. not all feel that way. Engine parts are getting more expensive and harder to find. Labor costs are higher. This coupled with a roller coaster economy(just turn on the news) has most panicking and second guessing what they should do.

My local tracks are down on attendance. Test N Tune nights are not what they use to be just a few years ago. So if a track that allows any car is down, how can it not be down for a 25+ year old limited production car.

As much as I love this communitty and enjoy the cars.. I dont see how multiple events and the segregation put on other cars will allow existance in the upcoming years. Even events like the LSX for LS powered cars is weak and merged with the NMCA on their events. There are a lot more LSX cars than Turbo Buicks.

I love the idea of the Buicks vs Fords.. or Buicks vs the world.. Anything to increase attendance, generate vendors, people walking through the gates.. = greater car count.. and in the end brings attention to the cars. And I do understand the thought of the other cars taking over the event.. but guess what.. the car count is what makes the event.

In the short term have classes that most can relate with. And have a chance to win something.. True Street is maybe one solution. Its a class that basically has few rules and is open to cars with tags and insurance. Works on a 3 run average after a 30 mile cruise through town. Doesnt discriminate as there are 14 second winners as well as 8 second winners. Each one gets a plaque and a check. Gets a chance to drive their car in with a bunch of other similar cars. We could possibly get GM High Tech exposure and even articles on this website highlighting winners. In the end enthusiasts dont do it for money but recognition. There is no amount of money that brings a greater "high" than your name/car being highlighted for the world to see.

True street draws out 100+ cars in the NMRA event here in Florida. Even on a bad turnout they get 40-60 cars. Cars raced/driven are built by enthusiasts and are built as they want the cars. Yes you have to follow safety rules.. the only downside is typically it draws out local cars. Even tho there are lot of out of state cars.

Just a thought guys.. there are a gillion classes for race cars TS"x".. the street cars dont have a place. This opens up some fun.

True Street Buick.. open to any Buick bodied/powered car.. prize/plaque for Fastest, 9.0, 10.0, 11.0, 12.0, 13.0.. 3 run average closest to the number gets the win. 6 plaques.. trophy for fastest.. cash payout on the others divided among the class entry fees. That way its given back to the racers.

Am I crazy :eek:
 
Well JIm, thanks for clearing up who you are. I have to say your post here is mostly spot on. I don't agree with all of it but we will have to agree to disagree. You are certainly entitled to your opinion as am I. As for the "gsca bashing" some folks got treated pretty bad there. I supported that group spent lots of money with them, went down there on my time to meet richard and crew to help vendor relations, put on tech sessions that were one of the biggest draws of the week there and they still treated me like an outsider. Thats OK I made an honest effort and they made a choice. I will not get into the details they are not important anymore, I am over it. Vendor bashing comes with the territory, if you really take the time to read the Walbro thing you will find that Walbro has NO warranty, I took it upon myself to get samples from customers (even people that did not buy from us), test them, get them to Walbro and prove to them there was an isssue, I then got an exchange program set up and even supplied new strainers to the people that we swaped out, frankly without me getting involved and putting myself in line for "bashing" those customers would have been screwed, that little deal cost me a pretty penny and I did it for some folks that never bought a damn thing from us. If they want to bash or blame me for that I got two words for them. If we cross paths I am more of a Van Winkle guy, hope that works for you.
Mike

Mike
 
Kevin I totally agree. Of all the "T" classes out there THS is the largest attended by far as of late, 17 cars alone for BG last year. Wasn't a problem getting a sponsor for it in NC as it was one of the first classes taken by sponsors. Another reason why THS is so popular IMHO is the fact that the 4 fastest cars in the class are less than like five hundrethes of a second away from one another and no single car has stood out as a dominating factor. And as the class stays that way it will continue to have the most racers in it.

I know you personally don't care for index racing, don't know even if you have tried it or even care to give it a shot. To me here is the best setup for a race event at a 1/4 mile track. The reason is to get spectators back in the stands and interested in "side by side" racing. Without spectators to support it the racers wont have any track to race at anyway:

Heads up / .4 pro tree / pro ladder
---------------------------------------------------
Quick 8 (Buick bodied or Buick powered anything goes run what you brung)
Index 1 8.50 (TSO / TSL)
Index 2 9.50 (TSM)
Index 3 10.50 (THS)
Index 4 11.50 (whoever wants to give index racing a try)

regular tree----------------
Bracket 1 (0-11.49)
Bracket 2 (11.50 - up)

To me this represents the future for the Buick community to continue to draw a crowd and for the budget minded racer not wanting to have to try and get his 67 turbo and car into the 9's. Not to mention it it would be TONS easier on parts and still make for an exciting time with great side by side racing for the fans.
I am up for trying anything. Right now I want to race ths heads up. I have spent my whole summer trying tonchase down the fast cars of the class and am still behind. Its like a challenge to me to get there without spending big money. I am getting close though. But forcing my car to a 10.5 index would make all that effort I have put in this summer (changing 5 converters, wearing out 2 sets of tires, going to the track every week, changing fuels and tunes like underwear, trying new set ups, etc) go to waste in my opinion. I am sure some of the tsm and tso guys are the same.




Btw....what happened tiretoters post? I was reading it on my phone, got a call, then my phone went to reload the page and it was gone.please tell me I am not going crazy lol
 
True Street Buick.. open to any Buick bodied/powered car.. prize/plaque for Fastest, 9.0, 10.0, 11.0, 12.0, 13.0.. 3 run average closest to the number gets the win. 6 plaques.. trophy for fastest.. cash payout on the others divided among the class entry fees. That way its given back to the racers.

Am I crazy :eek:

I'm a little confused. Earlier in this post you berated index racing. But this last sentance sounds amazing like indexing. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Btw....what happened tiretoters post? I was reading it on my phone, got a call, then my phone went to reload the page and it was gone.please tell me I am not going crazy lol


His posts are still here. Check out post numbes:

43
45
46
50
53
54
55
57
59
 
The post that Jim Rogers made dissappered. That not good IMO. I was typing a reply hit post, mine dissappered and when I refreshed his was gone. WTF? FYI for Jim I am more of a Van Winkle guy hope that when we cross paths that works for you.
Mike

Dave, he had what was post #93 made this AM
 
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