State of the Buick Community: What to keep it from dying? Please check it out???

[SGRIM]

Good lord, you think post count on this site has anything to do with the contributions anyone makes to the Buick world? Does Richard Clark post on this site? Does he have 13,784 posts? Truthfully, I doubt he has the time to waste on 13,784 posts. Am I supoposed to think someone with 13,784 posts on this site has made a significant contribution to the Buick community other than "lip service"? 13,784 posts is a LOT of lip service if you ask me..

Yes he does. I was simply using him as the premier example of people giving back to the community. So my point is simple, what have you done?

So you think all I have done is simple have 13k posts?

I am not going to blow my own horn but if you don't know more about me than that you must have JUST came here to troll and start chit...

How could you possibly know what contributions I have made to Buick events? .

My point exatcly!

After Will? Will has nothing to do with this! I simply RESPONDED to Jay's negative post about Richard Lassiter. His post had no reason to be included here, nothing productive was going to come from it. Jay turned the conversation sour with his negative view. Too bad too, this discussion was heading in a productive direction until he threw his two cents into the mix. Why you cant allow yourself to admit what you already know is beyond me.

He is entitled to his opionion like anyone else. You too...

However you qoute Will like you didn't start the pissing match... After Will made a great post you came in and started on Jay. I know you are not Richard L so your comments could have just as easily been done without... I have no problem with him and you will not create one...

If your not seeing the problem here yet I am sorry... I am going to ask you nicely to leave this alone at this point... I am....

 

[SGRIM]

Well,

This thread has certainly deteriorated to rubbish....

It is now back on track...

One way or the other...

 

[JayC]

Good lord, you think post count on this site has anything to do with the contributions anyone makes to the Buick world? Does Richard Clark post on this site? Does he have 13,784 posts? Truthfully, I doubt he has the time to waste on 13,784 posts. Am I supoposed to think someone with 13,784 posts on this site has made a significant contribution to the Buick community other than "lip service"? 13,784 posts is a LOT of lip service if you ask me.



How could you possibly know what contributions I have made to Buick events?



After Will? Will has nothing to do with this! I simply RESPONDED to Jay's negative post about Richard Lassiter. His post had no reason to be included here, nothing productive was going to come from it. Jay turned the conversation sour with his negative view. Too bad too, this discussion was heading in a productive direction until he threw his two cents into the mix. Why you cant allow yourself to admit what you already know is beyond me.

Richard send you the check this month to be his cyber-protector?

I believe that Richard and his self serving antics have had a larger impact than most people realize on the Buick community. How much do you know about whats gone on behind the scenes at all these events? Do you know all the crap the dude has pulled that impacted the community in a negative way? If you're not Richard then I doubt you do. That being said, you're talking about something you dont know anything about.

Here's something else for you to chew on. Why do you think there are other races to begin with? For years, there was the GS Nats and the west coast race and that was it. Yea, there was Buick Vs Ford at Englishtown but even that couldnt hold a candle to the Nats. I will freely admit that the Nats was the premiere event for Buicks for years. However, in the mid 90s, people started getting sick of Richard's crap. Jim Haas and Conrad Jones went out and started their own club and had the Buicks at Bristol event for a few years. Better track, less money to race and more money paid out. Problem was, back then, getting the word out was very difficult because the Internet wasnt mainstream like it is now.

All these other events exist because people got sick of dealing with Richard. They got tired of being ripped off at the races, rules being modified for Richard's boys to win (Ask Mike Kurtz about that one) and all the other crap that went on behind the scenes. Thats why we have all these other events. All the events are whats spreading the car count thin.. that and it still costs a zillion dollars to go to the Nats and lets face it, people love the Nats but I think car count has dropped to the point that some of the luster may have worn off.

So, while you may be convinced Im an idiot, moron, egotistical bastard, jackass, etc, etc, Im also right. Cutting the shows down to a couple a year and putting them in geographic locations that people can actually go to them is what can keep this community alive. Class racing is cool but it only involves a few people. You need car count to survive and the event itself will draw that, not heads up racing.

I went to the Nats when it was awesome. When it was headquartered out of The Park Inn, it was the best event on the planet. The amount of work put into the TB.Com Nats blows away the GS Nats even when it was at it's heyday. They just need people to support them and then the community will have a special event to go to every year where its about the car, the people and community and not lining someone's pocket for the next year.

 

[Mike Licht]

Jay, how many years have we been saying some of the same things over and over? It just gets old and people only hear what they want to hear (or read). I have been around for a while myself when I went to the GS Nats for the first time it was awesome but people went away partially because of politics and some just moved on to different cars. The V8 guys never really accepted the Turbo guys and the turbo guys treated them like crap. They started moving on. When Jim Haas stated the Bristol event it was because there was a group that was just sick of getting treated like crap by the GSCA. I was with JIm when we toured the track for the first time and booked the event so I do know a little about the history of that. Over the years our numbers have dwindled and if anyone thinks we are ever going to get back to those type of events your dreaming. Too many events? maybe but who is willing to give up their event for "the cause"? Face the facts, we are getting smaller and weaker as a group. The few vendors that are left do not get the support they used to get, the big compaines want nothing to do with these cars, they are too old and the market is too small. This does not mean we can't still have fun and enjoy the cars that we love and are so passionate about, but as a group we need to figure out how to bring folks back to together. TireToter, since you have been around so long I am sure Jay and I know you, why don't you post your name so we know who we are dealing with?
Mike

 

[JayC]

Jay, how many years have we been saying some of the same things over and over? It just gets old and people only hear what they want to hear (or read). I have been around for a while myself when I went to the GS Nats for the first time it was awesome but people went away partially because of politics and some just moved on to different cars. The V8 guys never really accepted the Turbo guys and the turbo guys treated them like crap. They started moving on. When Jim Haas stated the Bristol event it was because there was a group that was just sick of getting treated like crap by the GSCA. I was with JIm when we toured the track for the first time and booked the event so I do know a little about the history of that. Over the years our numbers have dwindled and if anyone thinks we are ever going to get back to those type of events your dreaming. Too many events? maybe but who is willing to give up their event for "the cause"? Face the facts, we are getting smaller and weaker as a group. The few vendors that are left do not get the support they used to get, the big compaines want nothing to do with these cars, they are too old and the market is too small. This does not mean we can't still have fun and enjoy the cars that we love and are so passionate about, but as a group we need to figure out how to bring folks back to together. TireToter, since you have been around so long I am sure Jay and I know you, why don't you post your name so we know who we are dealing with?
Mike

I agree with you, Mike. I know you know about some of the crap that's been pulled. Hell, the one that directly involved me, you're the one that told me about it.

As far as people sacrificing their events for "the cause", well, if people were making millions from these events than I could totally understand that but its hard for me to believe that any of these guys are making money or even breaking even on these events. It would be nice if a mega-event could be put on, maybe cutting out a couple of races, the organizers getting together and putting on a serious event would be awesome. Might not get the car count the 1991 GS Nats got but I bet it would do okay.

The community gets smaller every day. Past missteps are coming back into the picture now and something has to change. There needs to be a mega event that people can plan their vacation around and be excited about. I think the TB.Com Nats could be that event if enough people get behind it.

 

[IrvJr]

This is the reason i dont go to any Buick events, even though i have wanted to. Bunch of whiny little bitches arguing who is right. Well i got news for you, you all are right and you all are wrong too.

For what its worth i'm having a Buick event in my garage. So i will win best in show AND fastest and get all the prizes. Short drive too.

 

[JayC]

This is the reason i dont go to any Buick events, even though i have wanted to. Bunch of whiny little bitches arguing who is right. Well i got news for you, you all are right and you all are wrong too.

For what its worth i'm having a Buick event in my garage. So i will win best in show AND fastest and get all the prizes. Short drive too.

Would you post your picture with the trophys and can I buy an event t-shirt?

 

[scot w.]

As far as people sacrificing their events for "the cause"...

The community gets smaller every day. Past missteps are coming back into the picture now and something has to change. There needs to be a mega event that people can plan their vacation around and be excited about. I think the TB.Com Nats could be that event if enough people get behind it.

I have only been around since the 20th anniversary of the GSCA but even in that short time I have noticed a hell of a drop in attendance compared to the first time I went to a Buick event.. I think if some of the event people got together and combined some events it would really make a difference and help them both with their events.. There are too many events fighting for the Top spot, the best dates, the best car count, the best attendance right now and it will never happen if things stay the same...

What would it hurt if several organizers got together for a "Mega Event" and combined their events together at a very large facility that can hold the "show cars", "Vendors", "Racers",a area for "Auto-x", and some thing for our kids? I think that is the ONLY way things will have any chance of turning these events around as far as car count & attendance.

I have been saying there were too many events for years now and even myself included have to choose which ones to attend and that is 2 a year...

I hope some can come together and plan a "Mega" event that includes Everything all at one facility!

Scot W.

 

[IrvJr]

Would you post your picture with the trophys and can I buy an event t-shirt?

Great idea. Now what to name my event. Any suggestions?

 

[scot w.]

Great idea. Now what to name my event. Any suggestions?

"The Irv Jr Show" ?? LOL

 

[IrvJr]

Since i opened my mouth i guess i should try to be helpful.

1. I agree about there being too many shows and not being able to make them all.

2. So many classes and rules to fit them.

3. Auto X. Never done it but sounds like a fun time. Seems less likely to break doing that so maybe more people would being willing to try that if they dont straight line it for fear of breaking.

4. Women. We need Buick girls to walk around and get their pics taken with the cars and owners.

5. Women.

 

[IrvJr]

"The Irv Jr Show" ?? LOL

Wife sees that all the time.

 

[JayC]

Great idea. Now what to name my event. Any suggestions?

The First Annual Irv's O-Town Buick Deathmatch

 

[SS/GN]

Bent6 you have the best post of all and I think your experience shows.IF we stay on the same path we will see the same results,simple.Some great ideas here,would be nice to get some into an action plan.:biggrin:Now can we all just play nice in the sand box

Kevin

 

[WH1]

This thread is very sad and correlates to the main problem: self absorbed people. I was glad when the other board "went away" because of all the GSCA bashing. I don't know or care about Richard Lassietter but I do care about Buicks. The GS Nationals is about the cars, racing and friends to me. I have more fun each day there than I do most of the year for very little money. I'm no Obama or Pelosi fan but I'll be damned if I'm going to leave the USA because of it. You can discuss different classes or who you don't like but I'll be spending my time actually attending an event instead. I think most people feel this way, life's too short.

 

[Bent6]

There are some good ideas but coming together and implementing them is another issue altogether.

I think everyone can agree that we need to have maybe one big mega event. The problem there has already been stated -who is going to "give up" their event for the cause?

Here is the ideal scenario IMO.

Have a "Buick Nationals" in Bowling Green, Ky. Not a Turbo Buick Nationals - not a GS Nationals but a BUICK NATIONALS - everything welcome whether it's Buick bodied or Buick powered - PERIOD. No GSCA affiliation or Turbobuick.com affiliation - just a mega all-Buick event. The logical thing would be for Richard L. and his cronies to do this with the existing event but I seriously doubt they would ever be willing to change anything. Heck, for that matter we could put on a BETTER event than they do at the same facility and see which one prevails.

My reasoning behind the location is the fact that BG has the best overall facility and is centrally located. Add to the fact that everyone is familiar with it, the town has plenty of hotels and eating joints in close proximity to the track. This is the reason it's a popular venue for a lot of car clubs, NMRA finals, NMCA, LSX Shootout, etc.

We need to reach out to the GS guys. Jay is right about them pissing and moaning about the TRs more or less taking over back in the late 80s BUT a lot of them have been treated like crap in the process. We need to stop segregating the population by the method of induction. I remember the days when there were only 4 heads up classes at BG - GS Street Stock, GS Street Eliminator, Turbo Street Stock and Turbo Street Eliminator plus the Super 16 and regular bracket programs. See - the segregation goes way back but that was a lot due to the fact that the GS guys didn't want to run with the TRs. Now look at how lopsided it is with all the Txx classes. This is why I propose to combine all the cars into a few classes run on an index.

This leads to my next thought and I don't mean to offend anyone. The biggest issue I see with the TB.com event is the location. I know it's all centered around Richard Clark and his shop which is worth the trip alone from what I hear BUT it's all the way over on the east coast. The small group that started the GSCA chose BG back in the early 80s due to the central geographical location. There are a lot of folks that can make that trip in a day. The planning that has been put into the TB.com event is awesome. If we could all put our heads together and use that type of planning on a new mega event that catered to all of the cars think of the possibilities. A good friend of mine attended the BG event last year for the first time. He is a Mustang guy that hits all the Ford events and he pointed out something I had never really thought about - there isn't much going on other than racing and a car show which leaves for a lot of down time. Most events will have all kinds of stuff going on like burnout competitions, dyno challenges, autocross events, engine swap challenges, etc to break up the monotony and give everyone something they can do. I know that a lot of this has been implemented into the TB.com event planning and that is great but it's all spread out. Get a mobile dyno to come in for the dyno challenge and it could ALL be done at Beech Bend.

Now - who wants to step out, check the ego, personal agendas, and attitudes at the door and reach out to all of these event coordinators to try to come up with a solution to our eventual extinction? I'm no event coordinator but I do think I can see the problem as well as the solution from an enthusiast's perspective as well as a racer's perspective. I would be glad to do whatever I could to see something like this happen. Any takers?

 

[motorhead]

3. Auto X. Never done it but sounds like a fun time. Seems less likely to break doing that so maybe more people would being willing to try that if they dont straight line it for fear of breaking.

4. Women. We need Buick girls to walk around and get their pics taken with the cars and owners.

5. Women.

3. It is. The only way it would be even remotely successful is if you had a local SCCA club put on a school BEFORE letting people run laps. Otherwise you are just going to end up with a cluster f*ck. FWIW, Auto-X is not easier on parts.

4. Yes. No heels or panties on the paint please.

5. Yes.

 

[TurboDave]

There are some good ideas but coming together and implementing them is another issue altogether.

I think everyone can agree that we need to have maybe one big mega event. The problem there has already been stated -who is going to "give up" their event for the cause?

Here is the ideal scenario IMO.

Have a "Buick Nationals" in Bowling Green, Ky. Not a Turbo Buick Nationals - not a GS Nationals but a BUICK NATIONALS - everything welcome whether it's Buick bodied or Buick powered - PERIOD. No GSCA affiliation or Turbobuick.com affiliation - just a mega all-Buick event. The logical thing would be for Richard L. and his cronies to do this with the existing event but I seriously doubt they would ever be willing to change anything. Heck, for that matter we could put on a BETTER event than they do at the same facility and see which one prevails.

My reasoning behind the location is the fact that BG has the best overall facility and is centrally located. Add to the fact that everyone is familiar with it, the town has plenty of hotels and eating joints in close proximity to the track. This is the reason it's a popular venue for a lot of car clubs, NMRA finals, NMCA, LSX Shootout, etc.

We need to reach out to the GS guys. Jay is right about them pissing and moaning about the TRs more or less taking over back in the late 80s BUT a lot of them have been treated like crap in the process. We need to stop segregating the population by the method of induction. I remember the days when there were only 4 heads up classes at BG - GS Street Stock, GS Street Eliminator, Turbo Street Stock and Turbo Street Eliminator plus the Super 16 and regular bracket programs. See - the segregation goes way back but that was a lot due to the fact that the GS guys didn't want to run with the TRs. Now look at how lopsided it is with all the Txx classes. This is why I propose to combine all the cars into a few classes run on an index.

This leads to my next thought and I don't mean to offend anyone. The biggest issue I see with the TB.com event is the location. I know it's all centered around Richard Clark and his shop which is worth the trip alone from what I hear BUT it's all the way over on the east coast. The small group that started the GSCA chose BG back in the early 80s due to the central geographical location. There are a lot of folks that can make that trip in a day. The planning that has been put into the TB.com event is awesome. If we could all put our heads together and use that type of planning on a new mega event that catered to all of the cars think of the possibilities. A good friend of mine attended the BG event last year for the first time. He is a Mustang guy that hits all the Ford events and he pointed out something I had never really thought about - there isn't much going on other than racing and a car show which leaves for a lot of down time. Most events will have all kinds of stuff going on like burnout competitions, dyno challenges, autocross events, engine swap challenges, etc to break up the monotony and give everyone something they can do. I know that a lot of this has been implemented into the TB.com event planning and that is great but it's all spread out. Get a mobile dyno to come in for the dyno challenge and it could ALL be done at Beech Bend.

Now - who wants to step out, check the ego, personal agendas, and attitudes at the door and reach out to all of these event coordinators to try to come up with a solution to our eventual extinction? I'm no event coordinator but I do think I can see the problem as well as the solution from an enthusiast's perspective as well as a racer's perspective. I would be glad to do whatever I could to see something like this happen. Any takers?

Excellent points but I would make one change. Don't call it the Buick Nationals. Something else, like.... Big Buick Shootout. Calling it "nationals" would immediately alienate the GSCA crowd for sure, just causing more heart burn. Too bad we have to step lightly with words, but you know what words can do to fragile egos.

 

[charlief1]

There are some good ideas but coming together and implementing them is another issue altogether.

I think everyone can agree that we need to have maybe one big mega event. The problem there has already been stated -who is going to "give up" their event for the cause?

Here is the ideal scenario IMO.

Have a "Buick Nationals" in Bowling Green, Ky. Not a Turbo Buick Nationals - not a GS Nationals but a BUICK NATIONALS - everything welcome whether it's Buick bodied or Buick powered - PERIOD. No GSCA affiliation or Turbobuick.com affiliation - just a mega all-Buick event. The logical thing would be for Richard L. and his cronies to do this with the existing event but I seriously doubt they would ever be willing to change anything. Heck, for that matter we could put on a BETTER event than they do at the same facility and see which one prevails.

My reasoning behind the location is the fact that BG has the best overall facility and is centrally located. Add to the fact that everyone is familiar with it, the town has plenty of hotels and eating joints in close proximity to the track. This is the reason it's a popular venue for a lot of car clubs, NMRA finals, NMCA, LSX Shootout, etc.

We need to reach out to the GS guys. Jay is right about them pissing and moaning about the TRs more or less taking over back in the late 80s BUT a lot of them have been treated like crap in the process. We need to stop segregating the population by the method of induction. I remember the days when there were only 4 heads up classes at BG - GS Street Stock, GS Street Eliminator, Turbo Street Stock and Turbo Street Eliminator plus the Super 16 and regular bracket programs. See - the segregation goes way back but that was a lot due to the fact that the GS guys didn't want to run with the TRs. Now look at how lopsided it is with all the Txx classes. This is why I propose to combine all the cars into a few classes run on an index.

This leads to my next thought and I don't mean to offend anyone. The biggest issue I see with the TB.com event is the location. I know it's all centered around Richard Clark and his shop which is worth the trip alone from what I hear BUT it's all the way over on the east coast. The small group that started the GSCA chose BG back in the early 80s due to the central geographical location. There are a lot of folks that can make that trip in a day. The planning that has been put into the TB.com event is awesome. If we could all put our heads together and use that type of planning on a new mega event that catered to all of the cars think of the possibilities. A good friend of mine attended the BG event last year for the first time. He is a Mustang guy that hits all the Ford events and he pointed out something I had never really thought about - there isn't much going on other than racing and a car show which leaves for a lot of down time. Most events will have all kinds of stuff going on like burnout competitions, dyno challenges, autocross events, engine swap challenges, etc to break up the monotony and give everyone something they can do. I know that a lot of this has been implemented into the TB.com event planning and that is great but it's all spread out. Get a mobile dyno to come in for the dyno challenge and it could ALL be done at Beech Bend.

Now - who wants to step out, check the ego, personal agendas, and attitudes at the door and reach out to all of these event coordinators to try to come up with a solution to our eventual extinction? I'm no event coordinator but I do think I can see the problem as well as the solution from an enthusiast's perspective as well as a racer's perspective. I would be glad to do whatever I could to see something like this happen. Any takers?

Very good points that you're making Will. Honestly I'd say that this is one of the big issues. Seperation of V8 and V6 cars as well as geography. For me to go to one of the shows/races, I have to drive. Noble is the closest to me and I can drive it in less than 8 hours. The others are at least 2 days driving. How about a little different idea. Try picking different locations and rotate them each year. BG or Ohio one year, somewhere like NM or Las Vegas the next year, and then a southern location the next year. Rotating them may be a pain but that way each part of the country gets one so everyone doesn't have to drive so far all the time.

 

[IrvJr]

3. It is. The only way it would be even remotely successful is if you had a local SCCA club put on a school BEFORE letting people run laps. Otherwise you are just going to end up with a cluster f*ck. FWIW, Auto-X is not easier on parts.

4. Yes. No heels or panties on the paint please.

5. Yes.

I would think that an auto x event for Buicks would be a little easier than an event for the enthusiasts of auto x. Make it more about fun than about the times. The course can be setup to be a little easier on the cars, and drivers.