State of the Buick Community: What to keep it from dying? Please check it out???

[VETKILR]

Sorry for the grim reaper heading but I need some answers. Reason I ask is we have several diehards putting in a lot of time and effort into supporting these events, not only racers, show owners, sponsors, vendors and promoters/directors but also spectators, families etc. My question is what will it take to get the hobby back in the drivers seat for the Buick community?

Factors such as economic, gas prices, job loss, loss of interest,etc are all fine and dandy. But listening to reports from friends who attended the Mopar Nationals this past weekend (several said to me the highest amount of cars and people in the 22 years he has been attending) and Pontiac Nationals which I attended at Norwalk last weekend which had 500-600 cars racing and another 300 to 400 showing makes me wonder what has happened to our community? Though assisting in an event is very new to me as i have about 7 seconds of experience doing it , nevertheless i have participated in the GSCA for a period of '90-03 and been to BPG, Norwalk Race day and next year Tb.com. Now the question is where did all the cars and people go? Obviously we have an older community and the heydays of 1k car counts at Beech Bend were fueled by TRs being practically brand new and the musclecar movement of the late 80s early 90s coincided a terrific timing for the event. But now no Buick event can come close though we still have diehards attending year after year so obviously it must be worth it!

So we all know the obvious factors, but the question is what will it take to bring back the masses? As you can tell im helping out with 2 events now. The question is what can i do to get people to come out and attend the events? Fact of the matter is i probably have unrealistic expectations b/c i want to see Buick events go back to having people run to the fences to see Super 16 and get full fields in TR/GS classes. Owners getting older, some people dont have time/money to keep upkeep on these cars, some have lost interest and have them torn apart or sold everything or to some its not worth it b/c of cost, fear of getting into accident, cost to trailer/drive vehicle, moved on to other cars etc.

So from a person (myself) trying to keep the community alive what will it take to get these events back with people attending and bringing their cars? Auto cross? Hemi vs Stage 1 shootouts? GN/T Type vs Mustang shootout (something i want to redo again)? LS vs TR? Give me some ideas.

Kind of tied to Julios article about is racing dead? Thoughts? Input?

 

[jetmech]

I like the idea of combining events with differents makes/models.. I also think if you open up the rules to tire size, weight, and turbo size the car count would go up. Let the hybrids in, who cares, as long as its buick powered, makes weight etc., let em in. I think this will only bring the car count up in race classes but wont do much for spectators showing up. The economy will dictate that. It would be cool to have a buick vs ? event. Good luck, i hope someone tries something. You wont know if it works if you dont try it.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

You got several factors involved as you mentioned.

First in the game of numbers you can't compare the Buicks to Pontiac or Chrysler as the numbers for GS and Turbo Buicks just isn't there.

Now you have several major Buick events in any given year making people make choices since money and vacations don;t allow many owners to attend more than say 1-2 events of any distance.

You can't zero in on one model as the Buick crowd is not big enough to support one specified model at a national event. You need to do racing/car show/vendors and some big name(s) and of course great weather and great location.

In the early 1990s we did several reunion events the turbo cars where fairly new....each of these events attracted 100 plus turbo regals and equal number of GTOs....we had Molly there for the Buicks and Davy Jones one year for the GTO crowd...military base which had excellent security.

Big events probably do best when limited to 2-3 days over that it gets expensive for people motels food keeping peace in the family etc....

Problem is the GS and Turbo numbers just are not as large as other groups...heck even the studebaker club has like 25,000 members so they will drdraw 500-700 for an yearly event. amazing since they haven't made a studebaker in 50 years....

Anyone putting on an event like you guys have done have huge costs and you need large attendance to offset the costs involved.

Its tough....

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Most of these big clubs also do a last nite banquet and do the awards then. Again basing this on events I have attended or spoke at over the years related to GTOs and Pontiacs Corvettes, Studebakers etc....

 

[novaderrik]

how many turbocharged Buicks were built? how many of them are left? how many of the people that own them belong to clubs? how many of them go to shows?
i know of 3 GN's within 40 miles of my house, and none of them go to shows. they are just weekend cruisers.

one thing about GN's is that they stick out in any crowd. i used to always love walking around at the Car Craft show, just knowing that there would be about 50 mostly identical black Buicks and a couple of T Types parked together in the same area year after year.. by the time i got my car in '04, they were down to about 20 GN's and a couple of T Types. by the time i actually got my T Type into the show in '07, there was maybe 15 GN's and that one 78 turbo LeSabre with an 84-85 drivetrain in it. i didn't park with them, since i didn't feel like spending the better part of an hour driving across the MN state fairgrounds just to park next to them. i haven't been there since '08, but i imagine the number of TR's there has dropped even lower since then.

 

[Grumpy]

People go threw changes in life. Cars are one of them. Being a young old goat I've been threw a lot.. A few Cobra/Shelby clubs, Vette clubs and of course the Buick "sites". I almost think there are to many Buick events now. After 25 years Buicks are kinda boring to me. It was a blast to play with them compared to the gas guzzlers of the 60s but after a while you look for another new adventure.

 

[TurboDave]

I'm a little late to this thread, but here's my reply that I made to your other post.

"No easy answers to this one. But like many, you compare other events such as the mopar nats and pontiac events you pointed
out.
You can hardly make such a comparison and I'll tell you why. It's my
believe that one of the primary reasons our events are starting to dwindle comes
down to one important (not the only one) factor. NUMBERS.

Keep in mind in the grand scheme of things there were only about 25,000 GN's built in 86 and 87,
and a smaller number of turbo regals.

While there were millions of various mopars and pontiacs built.

I suspect our events might be better populated had there been several hundred thousand various turbo regals built.
But then again our cars would never have been so unique.

It's all about numbers. They have dwindled heavilly. But of course there are other factors
which we also don't have control over, many of which you mentioned.

The mustang vs turbo regal events came and went in popularity quite fast. I only
attended a couple such events before I quickly lost interest in them. Again it
was all about numbers. They slaughtered us numbers wise. It was never a match.
There are litterally millions of mustangs on the road, always have been, how
many T/R's are left. I would guess no more than 10,000 (of all years) world
wide."

 

[garyk1970]

Make it an all GM show and race.

Location in the middle of all the enthusiasts.

Have a race class for everyone...new.old fast. Slow.not one class everyone can race in.

Theres a need for street driven small turbo/injector cars class.

 

[VETKILR]

Good points and several I know as well as everyone else knows and the #s game between us and Mopar/Pontiac Nats is apples and oranges comparison. I realize that like everyone else. Just trying to figure a way to keep it all alive. May have to go to an all GM show to survive!

 

[Grumpy]

Theres a need for street driven small turbo/injector cars class.

been saying this to for a long time.

 

[joey316g]

I like the idea of an ALL MODERN MUSCLE CAR EVENT. Must be EFI or at least have an ECU. Must be 81 and newer. If you make it all GM, youre gonna get a couple hundred first Gen Camaros and Chevelles.

One of the big problems is the car enthusiasts for this era arent like those of the 60s and 70s. Muscle cars from that era were a way of life. Now, the enthusiast that grew up in the TR era isnt nescessarily as dedicated to preserving the history of these cars aor any cars from this era. Its sad to say but hot rodding as a whole is slowly going away.

 

[salvageV6]

" Theres a need for street driven small turbo/injector cars class. "

Bingo, if there were a way to check for totally stock heads and cam it would also make for a great class.

 

[garyk1970]

been saying this to for a long time.

" Theres a need for street driven small turbo/injector cars class. "

Bingo, if there were a way to check for totally stock heads and cam it would also make for a great class.

Im looking onto this now.....not a concourse class like TSA, But more relaxed for slightly modded cars. This might work if the rules can please everyone ... TTS true turbo street is born.

 

[Grumpy]

"

Bingo, if there were a way to check for totally stock heads and cam it would also make for a great class.

hey everyone now has strokers motors :biggrin: Oh I really wouldn't want a stock cam. We have converted to rollers BUT small ones. I really don't think a cam is goin to do much on slower stock type cars.

 

[JayC]

People have done this to themselves.

The old timers have been saying for years this was going to happen and it finally is and the community doesnt have anyone to blame but themselves.

Ive been here since day 1 and there are a handful of others that have as well and Ive watched the climate change and our aftermarket change and everyone saw this coming years ago. When all the chinese crap started coming in, that was the first thing that set it all in motion. Vendors went under, quality parts vanished and people had the option to support the vendors but took the cheaper way out and without vendors, these cars are done. No major manufacturers make anything for these cars besides maybe a part here and there that happens to fit something else and without the aftermarket, you cant restore the cars, you cant make them faster.. the people that got us to this point are for the most part gone.

As the cars have gotten older and cheaper, that has also changed the aftermarket landscape. When these cars were new, people would pay whatever. But the parts were for the most part quality. Now no one wants to pay for quality and would rather buy Chinese junk.. where does that leave american manufacturers? You can farm your stuff out to Asia or you can fold up shop. Most people chose the later.

I dont know what its going to take to get the hobby back on track. Supporting the TB.Com Nats is a good place to start. Shane is not in this to make money like Richard Lassiter is. Everything that guy does is motivated by money. Shane is motivated by his love for the cars. You can rest assured that the day the GS Nats is no longer profitable, they will cease to exist.

 

[motorhead]

Without belabouring the points already expressed by others I will touch on something very few people in the "community" do which is Auto-X.

99% of the tech on the Turbo Regal (aka. the G-body) has been dedicated to going fast in a straight line for over 30 years now. Very few people know what it takes to make one of these cars even handle remotely well and even fewer will attempt to figure it out (take the risk). Sure you have some "Pro-Touring" styled cars here, but they are nothing more than bolt-on creations without an ounce of analytical thought put behind the parts or set-up. Assuming that Hotchkis or Baer products are going to solve your handling woes and then tracking your bolt-on machine is going to present less than positive returns; especially if you have had no previous instruction in performance driving or actual experience in the same.

Point and shoot drivers do not belong on the Auto-X course; they only stand to disappoint themselves and frustrate the few disciplined and dedicated enthusiasts with their antics. We see it all the time with the mullet wearing Ford guys who show up at our local events.

18” wheels, sway bars and shocks don’t make for a fun Auto-X experience, learning driving dynamics through years of education does. It’s taken me 10 years to build my car to a level where it has started to show competitive signs in the right hands; and for every change I made to the car I had to learn how to drive it all over again. 90% driver, 10% car.

 

[garyk1970]

hey everyone now has strokers motors :biggrin: Oh I really wouldn't want a stock cam. We have converted to rollers BUT small ones. I really don't think a cam is goin to do much on slower stock type cars.

i think strokers,cams ok.....any iron heads ok??? as long as it appears stock????

 

[TurboDave]

People have done this to themselves.

The old timers have been saying for years this was going to happen and it finally is and the community doesnt have anyone to blame but themselves.

Ive been here since day 1 and there are a handful of others that have as well and Ive watched the climate change and our aftermarket change and everyone saw this coming years ago. When all the chinese crap started coming in, that was the first thing that set it all in motion. Vendors went under, quality parts vanished and people had the option to support the vendors but took the cheaper way out and without vendors, these cars are done. No major manufacturers make anything for these cars besides maybe a part here and there that happens to fit something else and without the aftermarket, you cant restore the cars, you cant make them faster.. the people that got us to this point are for the most part gone.

As the cars have gotten older and cheaper, that has also changed the aftermarket landscape. When these cars were new, people would pay whatever. But the parts were for the most part quality. Now no one wants to pay for quality and would rather buy Chinese junk.. where does that leave american manufacturers? You can farm your stuff out to Asia or you can fold up shop. Most people chose the later.

I dont know what its going to take to get the hobby back on track. Supporting the TB.Com Nats is a good place to start. Shane is not in this to make money like Richard Lassiter is. Everything that guy does is motivated by money. Shane is motivated by his love for the cars. You can rest assured that the day the GS Nats is no longer profitable, they will cease to exist.

VERY well said old friend, very well said!!!!

 

[Grumpy]

People have done this to themselves.

The old timers have been saying for years this was going to happen and it finally is and the community doesnt have anyone to blame but themselves.

Ive been here since day 1 and there are a handful of others that have as well and Ive watched the climate change and our aftermarket change and everyone saw this coming years ago. When all the chinese crap started coming in, that was the first thing that set it all in motion. Vendors went under, quality parts vanished and people had the option to support the vendors but took the cheaper way out and without vendors, these cars are done. No major manufacturers make anything for these cars besides maybe a part here and there that happens to fit something else and without the aftermarket, you cant restore the cars, you cant make them faster.. the people that got us to this point are for the most part gone.

As the cars have gotten older and cheaper, that has also changed the aftermarket landscape. When these cars were new, people would pay whatever. But the parts were for the most part quality. Now no one wants to pay for quality and would rather buy Chinese junk.. where does that leave american manufacturers? You can farm your stuff out to Asia or you can fold up shop. Most people chose the later.

I dont know what its going to take to get the hobby back on track. Supporting the TB.Com Nats is a good place to start. Shane is not in this to make money like Richard Lassiter is. Everything that guy does is motivated by money. Shane is motivated by his love for the cars. You can rest assured that the day the GS Nats is no longer profitable, they will cease to exist.

Damm old farts in here BUT it hits the nail on the head !! Kinda sad really :redface:

 

[JayC]

Damm old farts in here BUT it hits the nail on the head !! Kinda sad really :redface:

This whole thing is probably one of the reasons I have no patience for this community and come off like an ass to most people that dont know me (And some that do). This community has pretty much been my life since 1987. Ive worked on tons of peoples cars, done thousands of chips for people, been to numerous events supporting the hobby and for what? Ive watched it disintegrate into an aftermarket dominated by Chinese reproduction crap and vendors that dont know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Sadly given my age, Ill probably be one of the last old school hanger-on'ers. I guess thats one of the upsides and downsides of getting into this at a young age.

 

[KevinB]

I bet if we only had 1 or 2 events a year, those events would be packed.

You got:
Reynolds
Tb.com nats
Norwalk
Bpg
Osceola
Bowling green
Oklahoma

And maybe more I don't know of.

With a limited budget, you can't go to all of them. So, if you and everyone one else only attend 2, the crowds really get thinned out.