New engine blew head gasket

[wmerrell]

My buddies pulled the engine this afternoon.
A local race engine builder is coming to the shop tomorrow to take off the heads and inspect any other blown head gasket damage.
Will be posting pictures tomorrow of the damage.
Hopefully, the damage will be limited.

 

[jasjamz]

Don't forget to check the torque on the head fasteners. One may be stripped. Also look at the top outer studs to make sure the nuts are not bottomed out before they clamp the head down. Inspect the injector harness and plugs also. Good Luck!

 

[wmerrell]

Don't forget to check the torque on the head fasteners. One may be stripped. Also look at the top outer studs to make sure the nuts are not bottomed out before they clamp the head down. Inspect the injector harness and plugs also. Good Luck!

Will do.

While the engine is out, should the engine wiring harness be replaced?
I know it is expensive but a 25 year old harness has spices and possible shorts.

Thanks for the help!

 

[wmerrell]

Heads and oil pan came off this morning. Also, removed a piston and rod. Engine bearings looked good. Head gasket on driver side was pushed. Heads are a at machine shop to be milled lightly to insure they are not warped. Still do not know cause of head gasket failure. The one piston (middle piston on driver's side) where the head gasket was pushed has less carbon on it than the other five pistons.

Thanks for all the input. Will update this thread as information becomes available.

 

[jasjamz]

A harness, not unless its really butchered. Pics?

 

[kidglok]

The one piston (middle piston on driver's side) where the head gasket was pushed has less carbon on it than the other five pistons.

antifreeze in the cylinder will do that

 

[bison]

Post some close ups of the head gaskets. Both sides of each gasket.

 

[Eticket]

Big thing many can learn from this is to get your tuner and engine builder to be the same person unless you are personally overseeing the engine build. That way the responsiblity is on "one person" to deliver you a car that is turn key.

When you have more than one person in the mix, the variables are endless with many reasons why things can go wrong. especially if not everything is brand new; i.e. the dang injector harness, fuel system, vacuum hoses - they are all now suspect- but the tuner should have checked all of that.

 

[jasjamz]

Big thing many can learn from this is to get your tuner and engine builder to be the same person unless you are personally overseeing the engine build. That way the responsiblity is on "one person" to deliver you a car that is turn key.

When you have more than one person in the mix, the variables are endless with many reasons why things can go wrong. especially if not everything is brand new; i.e. the dang injector harness, fuel system, vacuum hoses - they are all now suspect- but the tuner should have checked all of that.

They must also be trustworthy!

 

[bison]

When you have more than one person in the mix, the variables are endless with many reasons why things can go wrong. especially if not everything is brand new; i.e. the dang injector harness, fuel system, vacuum hoses - they are all now suspect- but the tuner should have checked all of that.

How does a tuner check a fuel system? Do they do a pressure/volume test before the tuning? Ive never done this although ive mentioned i will go no further with the current system. Ive declined running cars as soon as i heard the fuel pump. That doesnt stop anyone from going in there and cranking it up at a later time or running whatever they want. Is that the tuners fault? Brand new doesnt mean crap either. Seen plenty of new parts that dont get it done. Insuring that something is going to be what its supposed to be carries a hefty price tag. How long is an engine making 100hp per hole supposed to last? If you dont trust the tuner then you shouldnt be playing with it.

 

[jasjamz]

Cal doesn't build motors and Strezo doesn't tune....

 

[Eticket]

How does a tuner check a fuel system? Do they do a pressure/volume test before the tuning? Ive never done this although ive mentioned i will go no further with the current system. Ive declined running cars as soon as i heard the fuel pump. That doesnt stop anyone from going in there and cranking it up at a later time or running whatever they want. Is that the tuners fault? Brand new doesnt mean crap either. Seen plenty of new parts that dont get it done. Insuring that something is going to be what its supposed to be carries a hefty price tag. How long is an engine making 100hp per hole supposed to last? If you dont trust the tuner then you shouldnt be playing with it.

Bison, My suggestion is the that the tuner is also the builder and installer and have done all "reasonable" testing and installation as if it were their own car and responsible in delivering a car capable of XX power or boost level or whatever the customer's expectation is. It is up to that builder to say if they are comfortable or uncomfortable with using whatever the owners previous mods are. OF COURSE new parts can fail, there are plenty of walbro 169's to prove that. I'm just saying to set the expectation and then pay someone a "turn-key" price, that way guys that can't work on their own stuff are protected against something like this. I've seen a few builders have to buy customers cars because of mishaps - unfortunately, that's on them.... customer is protected...

 

[Eticket]

Cal doesn't build motors and Strezo doesn't tune....

Unrelated to the two you have mentioned.

Choose your tuner and have he/she pick your engine builder.. The tuner might need to be paid to be in the middle but all problems were resolved between them without loss to the customer. Anything else is unacceptable.

 

[Eticket]

Unrelated to the two you have mentioned.

Choose your tuner and have he/she pick your engine builder.. The tuner might need to be paid to be in the middle but all problems were resolved between them without loss to the customer. Anything else is unacceptable.

these are just my 0.02 cents - I guess I should just be quiet.

 

[kidglok]

just out of curiosity:

was this dyno hit on pump gas? race gas? pump gas and alky? what was the timing? what chip?

 

[jasjamz]

these are just my 0.02 cents - I guess I should just be quiet.

No, I understand your point but we also dont want to sway people away from those that provide a perticular service. You can have a person for every section of the build, but they must be trustworthy, and all on the same page.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Bison, My suggestion is the that the tuner is also the builder and installer and have done all "reasonable" testing and installation as if it were their own car and responsible in delivering a car capable of XX power or boost level or whatever the customer's expectation is. It is up to that builder to say if they are comfortable or uncomfortable with using whatever the owners previous mods are. OF COURSE new parts can fail, there are plenty of walbro 169's to prove that. I'm just saying to set the expectation and then pay someone a "turn-key" price, that way guys that can't work on their own stuff are protected against something like this. I've seen a few builders have to buy customers cars because of mishaps - unfortunately, that's on them.... customer is protected...

First and foremost, there is no guarantee with horsepower.

If the motor runs, has oil pressure and compression the builders job is done.

The tuner is trying to get the most out of it safely. But what is safe? Allot of variables.

IMO A car should be tuned on the street for many hours before a dyno. Things need to be verified before maximizing the tune. If you show up at a dyno without any prior tuning and testing your looking for trouble.

The important thing now is to find out why it happened.


Rick

 

[bison]

First and foremost, there is no guarantee with horsepower.

If the motor runs, has oil pressure and compression the builders job is done.

The tuner is trying to get the most out of it safely. But what is safe? Allot of variables.

IMO A car should be tuned on the street for many hours before a dyno. Things need to be verified before maximizing the tune. If you show up at a dyno without any prior tuning and testing your looking for trouble.

The important thing now is to find out why it happened.

Rick

I disagree on the street before a dyno. Dynos uncover a lot of issues that can often quickly be resolved. I for one am not taking someones 600+hp car for 3rd gear passes on the street trying to figure out why it lazy over 5600rpm. You go to a dyno to sort out small issues that would require multiple trips to the drag strip and possibly a couple seasons of racing to figure out if you didn't lose interest before dumping the project. You don't go there looking for a number although the tuner should have a good ballpark number if they have any experience. I've seen a lot of ignition related issues that would probably never get fixed at the drag strip be taken care of in short order using a dyno. If you want to own a high hp engine then spending $700-800 to have someone dyno that knows what they are doing tune the car will leave you in a much better position from a longevity standpoint than someone who doesn't. Id even advise they pay again and have the tuner at the drag strip to further assist. Dropping $1500-2000 this way shouldn't be a big deal since the car is really a novelty. The average household that has credit card debt has over $15000 balance. That's about $3000/year in interest if no other charges are made and 700/month is paid toward the balance and the interest rate is 17%. It's not hard to see what's important to the general public. Paying banks a lot of interest is definitely one of them. I'd rather give a tuner $1500 than a bank 1 cent.

 

[m233roller]

Very WELL said Brian and I agree 100%

 

[L8TRH8R]

I disagree on the street before a dyno. Dynos uncover a lot of issues that can often quickly be resolved. I for one am not taking someones 600+hp car for 3rd gear passes on the street trying to figure out why it lazy over 5600rpm. You go to a dyno to sort out small issues that would require multiple trips to the drag strip and possibly a couple seasons of racing to figure out if you didn't lose interest before dumping the project. You don't go there looking for a number although the tuner should have a good ballpark number if they have any experience. I've seen a lot of ignition related issues that would probably never get fixed at the drag strip be taken care of in short order using a dyno. If you want to own a high hp engine then spending $700-800 to have someone dyno that knows what they are doing tune the car will leave you in a much better position from a longevity standpoint than someone who doesn't. Id even advise they pay again and have the tuner at the drag strip to further assist. Dropping $1500-2000 this way shouldn't be a big deal since the car is really a novelty. The average household that has credit card debt has over $15000 balance. That's about $3000/year in interest if no other charges are made and 700/month is paid toward the balance and the interest rate is 17%. It's not hard to see what's important to the general public. Paying banks a lot of interest is definitely one of them. I'd rather give a tuner $1500 than a bank 1 cent.

When I did my build, I bought all my own parts, had my engine guy do the build (his FIRST EVER turbo Buick engine) started the car, and, drove it home. SAVED $$ flew Cal into town, drove with him to the dyno, and, then pulled 730 RWHP the first pull. There were heads ALL OVER THE USA involved in this build (Bison included) the tolerances are only right once regardless of who's doing what.