New engine blew head gasket

[Rodney87GN]

According to Dale it is the wrong gaskets.
Engine should not have built with Victor Reinz head gaskets.

Victor Reinz p/n 3797 are the correct head gaskets for the 109 motors. I've gone 28-30 psi with those gaskets with no problems. Only time I popped a VR head gasket is when my alky didn't come on at 26 psi!

I believe VR also makes another head gasket for the 3.8 but its not for turbo applications...

 

[boostedyards86]

Work on these cars daily, (mine always costs me money and time somehow) let it sit for a time and jump back at it. Only real choice you have or your gonna part it out and sell it. And know one wants to see you do that.

 

[wmerrell]

What is he doing for $2700? With your gaskets, he needs to clean the oil pickup and pan....$400 on top of the typical $1000. Resurface heads, cometic gaskets, intake gasket, valve cover gaskets, timing cover gasket and labor. He may as well check the cam timing since he is so close. Easier to put the motor on the stand and inspect bearings while he has the pan off. So I can see why its $2700. Not telling you to pay it, however if it fires up and has low oil pressure after just gaskets...motor needs to come back out. Now, do you want to just do gaskets?

Here is his response:

Bill
After taking Data from a run we look over the Data that was collected and make adjustments based on the Data,A/F & Dyno results and make any necessary adjustments and than make another run. I don't save the Data.

The EST is for R&R ENGINE (20hrs) IN ORDER TO REPLACE HEAD GASKETS (HAS HEAD STUDS),Final tune on Dyno ( should be just raising the boo
Cometic MLS Head Gaskets, Intake Manifold Gasket, we would do our best to save all of your fluids (oil & anti-freeze)
Once dissembled if we find anything else we would contact you and advise.

 

[jasjamz]

Come on gents... So what your running 30 psi on the same gaskets. There are so many variables that create cylinder pressure which in turn makes power, its apples to oranges. A stock long block at 30psi, a ported iron 234ci. @30 and an race ported GN1 250ci
109 can all make 475hp depending on cam, compression, and the tune. Gaskets are "cylinder fuses". You pick the amperage, but they all should be forgiving at some point unless you're into engine carnage.

As for your damage explanation. I don't know what to say. I know tuners are typically not responsible for "letting the smoke out". You need to see what happened before you really can point the finger.

 

[pacecarta]

you can do gaskets with studs in car , just takes a little longer

as for tossing data after an engine run fail .. if it was fine he would have kept it to prove it wasnt his doing , the data is the only thing that could point to tuner and its igone ...not saying he was at fault but old saying "qwaks like a duck.."

 

[jasjamz]

you can do gaskets with studs in car , just takes a little longer

as for tossing data after an engine run fail .. if it was fine he would have kept it to prove it wasnt his doing , the data is the only thing that could point to tuner and its igone ...not saying he was at fault but old saying "qwaks like a duck.."

Don't forget he needs to pull the pan, on a girdled engine that takes longer too. Just Yank It!

 

[Grumpy]

Just Yank It!

X100000 !!! Just did a set 3 weeks in the car... Hey I always would do them there BUT now I am not as young an foolish as I was back then. Take it out !!! I'd be goin over it with a fine tooth comb !!

 

[jasjamz]

And re-torque the heads before you or whomever pulls them off. You may find a stripped hole in the block. Dont laugh, it happend to some guys before BG this year. They went to do a retorque and some just spun. Be there when its pulled apart.
You may find a broken vacuum line to the map sensor. That will kill your alky.
A broken injector harness clip or loose injector plug.
Shorted fuel pump hotwire, or failing relay. So many things can be the cause.
When you aren't turning the wreches and doing the tuning you increase the chance of a mysterious mishaps. What used to tune this car? Chip, ECU, Powerlogger? I remember you being undecided on this. Prior to tuning, you also took this car on a nice drive after the oil pan gasket right?

 

[pacecarta]

i agree ..pull is best if you are equipped to do that
, his response was that it had to be pulled due to studs ,
and yes the pan needs to be dropped and the girdle makes the pan a pain , (from op post in car this was 400 labor his first go round )
but its not impossible
just pointing out if the owner wanted to attempt the repair himself

 

[SpeeednV6]

I would say get or borrow an engine puller, stand, and a Helms book. Invest in yourself to do the job. I've delt with 2 builders here in Illinois and between the 2, things were "butchered" and overpriced. Engine rebuild was $2700 to $5000 and head gasket was $1200. This was 8 years ago. Building isn't difficult. If you have a garage and some time...just do it. If you have deep pockets...continue to write the check. Tuning and combo's can be harder, but that's why forums like this are sooo valuable. Timing, boost, fuel, and octane are major culprits to blown head gaskets! Good luck!

 

[turbodaniel]

Here is his response:

Bill
After taking Data from a run we look over the Data that was collected and make adjustments based on the Data,A/F & Dyno results and make any necessary adjustments and than make another run. I don't save the Data.

The EST is for R&R ENGINE (20hrs) IN ORDER TO REPLACE HEAD GASKETS (HAS HEAD STUDS),Final tune on Dyno ( should be just raising the boo
Cometic MLS Head Gaskets, Intake Manifold Gasket, we would do our best to save all of your fluids (oil & anti-freeze)
Once dissembled if we find anything else we would contact you and advise.

IS'NT THAT WHAT DYNOS ARE FOR ...COLLECTING DATA

 

[jasjamz]

IS'NT THAT WHAT DYNOS ARE FOR ...COLLECTING DATA

No, they simply measure power output. Dataloggers collect data. Some have air fuel ratio meters and also use tachometers. Some don't. Please don't confuse the Newbies.

 

[wmerrell]

A couple of my friends are going to help me out.
We are pulling the engine and replacing the head gaskets.
While the engine is out it will be gone over by a local race engine builder.
Weber told me they used Victor Reinz because they thought I was running 16-17 lbs of boost.
So what head gaskets should I use?
6266 journal turbo, champion ported heads, 60 lbs injectors, Gen II Translator, 212/206 roller cam, alky,
Really want this thing to work. Car will NOT be going back to Dale Cherry!

 

[jasjamz]

A couple of my friends are going to help me out.
We are pulling the engine and replacing the head gaskets.
While the engine is out it will be gone over by a local race engine builder.
Weber told me they used Victor Reinz because they thought I was running 16-17 lbs of boost.
So what head gaskets should I use?
6266 journal turbo, champion ported heads, 60 lbs injectors, Gen II Translator, 212/206 roller cam, alky,
Really want this thing to work. Car will NOT be going back to Dale Cherry!

Cometic Gaskets go on the cars I am hands on with . I have used the RJC, Felpro 9441PT and the VR gaskets with success. But if it will see 10 second ET attempts...Cometics. Who's going to do the tuning for you now? You have the parts to tune, log, and can post info here. I have no problem helping you via Email or on threads and others are here to chime in too. Its winter also! You have two to three months to read learn and ask tuning related questions. Creep up the power after you see things are going well and learn as you go. An ebay fuel pressure sensor on the rail tied into the Powerlogger is very useful in tuning. An alky fed stroker, 16-17 psi, Did you tell them that was what your intended boost level was?

 

[wmerrell]

Cometic Gaskets go on the cars I am hands on with . I have used the RJC, Felpro 9441PT and the VR gaskets with success. But if it will see 10 second ET attempts...Cometics. Who's going to do the tuning for you now? You have the parts to tune, log, and can post info here. I have no problem helping you via Email or on threads and others are here to chime in too. Its winter also! You have two to three months to read learn and ask tuning related questions. Creep up the power after you see things are going well and learn as you go. An ebay fuel pressure sensor on the rail tied into the Powerlogger is very useful in tuning. An alky fed stroker, 16-17 psi, Did you tell them that was what your intended boost level was?

Yes, they knew I was running a 6262 at 21 lbs of boost and planned to up it to 25 in order to get the performance I wanted.

 

[jasjamz]

6262 or 6266? Doesn't matter much now. Post as many pics as you can from start to finish. There are things others see in photos we miss in person.

 

[bison]

I'd dig a lot deeper. The VR gaskets didn't blow because the car hit 21psi. Especially on a dyno hit. Ive put 650hp on those repeatedly and not had failure. I agree with Jason though. Anything over 550hp or about 100hp per hole that I have anything to do with gets a steel or copper gasket. I've used VR, GM steel, RJC steel, cometic in various thicknesses, and various copper gaskets and never had a problem with them unless the cylinders were detonated or got hot.

 

[bison]

6262 or 6266? Doesn't matter much now. Post as many pics as you can from start to finish. There are things others see in photos we miss in person.

That wouldn't matter at 21psi on this engine unless it was spending time over 6000rpm. They'd both make the same power and should be right around 540whp showing 600hp worth of fuel consumption.

 

[dpasadena]

Yes, they knew I was running a 6262 at 21 lbs of boost and planned to up it to 25 in order to get the performance I wanted.

I have run 27psi for quite some time with my 252" 9.5-1 compression engine with the Victors. This is a street car that sees many wot blasts. I made sure all the mating surfaces were extra, extra clean when I installed the heads. I have read many times that cleanliness is crucial for sealing headgaskets especially when having a lot of cylinder pressure. The Victors are decent gaskets from what I have experienced. Good luck

 

[wmerrell]

6262 or 6266? Doesn't matter much now. Post as many pics as you can from start to finish. There are things others see in photos we miss in person.

Old engine had a 6262, turbo went bad as a result of old engine failure, upgraded to a 6266 on stroker.