Military "Don't ask, Don't tell" Agree or disagree?

[WH1_T-Type]

Ah, that is a good way to back off...

If people were "supposed" to be gay we wouldn't be here! Gays can't reproduce. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out:wink:

Well, whats the point? If you can't seperate religious brain washing from something that has NOTHING to do with religion you will never be accepting that other people have rights even if you don't like it. I could point out that there has been observed homosexuality in the animal kingdom. I could point out that it doesn't really matter, since a persons sexuality has NOTHING to do with how well they can aim a gun and defend you. I could point out that the US Military DOES NOT base its policies on religious beliefs. But it is to no avail. Useless.

Edit: I'm not saying they are SUPPOSED to be gay. If EVERYONE was gay the species would die, so obviously that would be bad. However, that does NOT mean that you aren't born that way. This topic is NOT about that though. It is about whether or not they should be allowed to stay in the military if it is discovered that they are gay. Yes. they should.

 

[SGRIM]

If the world broke out into WWIII like in the movie Red Dawn for example would you feel comfortable with a gay man or woman to defend your freedom and put their life on the line for you or would you feel more comfortable with a straight man or woman putting their life on the line? Just curious?

The military is about protecting our freedom, not about what some guy/girl is gonna see when he/she goes to takes a shower. I'm sure there are just as many guys/girls in the closet then open about it. So the shower argument is kinda pointless.

I can tho understand the argument pertaining to unity within a specialized unit tho while out in the bush for example. But again, if a gay guy wants to take a bullet for me they all the power to him/her.

If I was in the battlefield there would be other things concerning me but the military isn't all about the battlefield for many so I can see peoples issues.

No different then having an issue with race or gender I guess. Tow each his own to what offends you. I could just care less if PHYSICALLY you can do the job.

Your missing my point... I am sure there are guy gays "tougher" than me... It isn't about what they can or can't do, I am not questioning that...

You have to take in account the others feelings. Not everyone is as open to gays as some of you are...

If it happens straight men will become the target of every accusation under the sun... Wouldn't surprise me if the incoming recruit numbers fell off pretty dramatically...

Everyone talks about what "they do in their private bedrooms etc..." well that is private. No one else has to accept it as long as it is private!

 

[Audie1]

My wife and I have several friends that are gay and in committed relationships (how we know them) that happen to be in the military. Yet if the wrong person finds out that they are gay, they can get kicked out. We don't think that is right. We also don't think it is any of our business what another person does in the bedroom.

What does a persons sexuality have to do with whether or not they can defend YOU?

There has to be Disipline in the Military, Morals in the Military, in the Military we stood for the Red, White and Blue......not some rainbow colors.

 

[datant69]

I could care less who's team you play for

i have nothing but respect for any of them. sure i was immature at one time and threw eggs and called them out when we passed a few bars cruising around. grew outta that soon after learning my uncle was gay. i talked to him after he came FLYING OUT ON FLAMES and it gave me an understanding. He died after battling aids for several years. Now it's tough to call this one for someone else but let me tell you if you don't have a gay relative, then you have a small family. i saw an HBO special about a gay marine ( i think ) serving in Iraq and it was a good show. sure he may not have won everyone over but they also interviewed his fellow soilders he served with and most didn't care and knew he was. there will always be a few that will but your entitled to your own opinion. regardless they are more then willing to arm them selves and fight like anyone else heck i wouldn't mind it abit. Back in the early 90's when i was with my 1st wife i worked with a openly gay male, and wife had a best freind as one. i was alot more mature then but average for a early 20ish guy. They invited her out and told her to bring me along, i didn't know were we were going but went to some gay club that had a drink special in dallas. anyway music was good they had alot of gays and straight people in there. only got approached one time and it was a guy who pulled my shirt sleeve and i just looked at him and with a level hand went from one side to the other meaning i was straight. he nodded and held up the wall. walking out and down about a block we got passed by 2 cars of guys who yelled out stuff and i looked at them and said deja vu.

 

[WH1_T-Type]

There has to be Disipline in the Military, Morals in the Military, in the Military we stood for the Red, White and Blue......not some rainbow colors.

There is discipline in the military. Just because someone is gay would not change that.

It is not the governments job to tell people what morals to have.

 

["Turbo-T"]

If homosexuals and heterosexuals in the military can shower and bunk together, can we also make it so in the military men and women can do the same?

 

[datant69]

morals and ethics and anything else

There is discipline in the military. Just because someone is gay would not change that.

It is not the governments job to tell people what morals to have.

we have others in the military that we read about all the time that don't hold them standards. we read about them and they make the news all the time for something foolish they did. i thought maybe we'd be the laughing stock amoung countries for not caring. regardless i stand by what i said, if i was at war and we were on the front line and the person next to me is gay or lesbian. then i expect them to pick up the rifle and mow people down as much as possible. does being gay make your aim better? maybe at somethings but not at war. what an individual does on his R&R is his or her own business. gay's have it tough enough in the real world as most people look at them with disgust. your intitled to yours and i'm at mine.

 

[Rivical]

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not bothered by gays and respect the job that all are doing. I have a number of gay friends who served honorably.
but...

Has anyone considered that homosexual's aren't breeders? With everything that our govt has done to destroy the DNA of the working class through chemical agents like Agent Orange and now the DU munition's for the past 20yrs., the children of returned combat veteran's are dilluting our gene pool's integrety. It's truly sickening what our govt has and IS doing with soft kill weapons against not just our enemies, but those who defend us.

http://www.grassrootspeace.org/yagasaki_dushells.pdf


Just throwing that out there......

 

[Audie1]

There is discipline in the military. Just because someone is gay would not change that.

It is not the governments job to tell people what morals to have.

It's obvious that you have never been in the Military. What do you think the old term "G.I." stands for. Government Issued, and yes they can tell you what morals and standards that you should and will have, what you can and can not do. Punishment for noncompliance falls under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), Chapter X "Punitive Articles". This covers lots of things that one can be punished for, such as sodomy etc etc etc. You also have the Code of Conduct & NCO Creed. Bottom line is that your a$$ belongs to Uncle Sam while you are enlisted.........need more?

US CODE: Title 10,SUBCHAPTER X—PUNITIVE ARTICLES

 

[dr_frankenstein]

being somebody who was in the military and had a few gay friends I can tell you it really doesnt make a different.

and you know what.... in the end as long as they can pick me up and drag me out of say a ship board compartment fire, or an ambush in the field, I could care less if they have an attraction to the same sex.

I am man enough to know that being around a gay person isnt going to make me gay... nor make them any less of a person.

being homophobic or whatever you want to call it is an obvious sign of a person who is ignorant, plain and simple.

:biggrin:A.j.

 

[turbo39151]

Normally, I wouldn't bother to respond to a politically charged thread but honestly I'm a little shocked by the whole homophobe thing.

I served in the Army. Lots of gays in every branch-mostly navy --j/k navy folks--- (both gay guys and girls)- no biggie. So what if someone from the same sex is checking you out. Let them enjoy the view. Who really gives a flyin' f..? As long as the rule "look but don't touch is followed" I don't see an issue.

As for gays "coming out" in the military, I doubt it would happen. Too many idiots ready to pass judgment.

What I am concerned with is "gays" becoming a special interest group. A protected class. They're just people. Why should they go and force their agenda everywhere they go. I don't force my agenda... There should be no special treatment because someone claims to be gay.

Just my .02

 

[WH1_T-Type]

It's obvious that you have never been in the Military. What do you think the old term "G.I." stands for. Government Issued, and yes they can tell you what morals and standards that you should and will have, what you can and can not do. Punishment for noncompliance falls under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), Chapter X "Punitive Articles". This covers lots of things that one can be punished for, such as sodomy etc etc etc. You also have the Code of Conduct & NCO Creed. Bottom line is that your a$$ belongs to Uncle Sam while you are enlisted.........need more?

US CODE: Title 10,SUBCHAPTER X—PUNITIVE ARTICLES

It's obvious you haven't read the whole thread. I've been in the military for a third of my life already and have another decade to go. I'm also on my way for 390 days of IA duty in Guantanamo Bay in a month. I also was raised in the military as my father was a USAF officer and served 31 years before retiring.

I'm very much aware of what the rules and regulations are. This thread is about OPINION on that and whether or not that should change. Obvioiusly the only way my opinion will make a difference is at the voting booth, not here in this thread.

Good try though.

 

[WH1_T-Type]

I just wanted to take a moment to clairfy my views on homosexuality as I believe some of you may be getting the impression that I am a gay rights 'activisit' or some such nonsense.

Really to me it is a non-issue. I don't approve or disapprove. It is none of my business. I don't think that they should get special treatment or anything like that. However, I also don't think that they should be prevented from being who they are. It is a simple matter of just NOT kicking them out when someone 'officially' finds out about the homosexuality. As I said before I really don't think a large majority of them would make any sort of effort to actually come out AT WORK.

 

[Justa6]

Voted 'Don't care'. (and no, I don't care to read the rest of the thread, probably full of political/bigot/homophobe comments anyways)


Why in this day and age is someones personal preference regarding sexual partners a big deal?!? I stand behind and support EVERY ONE of our troops!

 

[turbopete]

WH-1 has it right

As a Navy veteran of 20 years service, I have served with and know gay men and women in uniform. It makes no difference at all who they are, or what they do. They are in the service of their country, with the current rules and regulations to follow. The current policy is flawed, and does not allow them to both serve their country and be true to themselves. Even when the policy is repealed, I doubt most of them will chose to "come out." There are too many, both inside and outside the service, who just can't or won't deal with any gay man or woman serving in the military. I believe they will continue to serve quietly, but without the risk of losing their job and being discharged just for who they are.

There are many opinions, this one is mine.

 

[SGRIM]

I spoke with a former Navy man today, and his father was a career military man...

He said this was a huge mistake... He said being on a ship for 6 months at at time was hard enough. Having to share bunks with known gays he didn't already know would be terrible...

They both agreed it wouldn't be any different then having co-ed bunks etc...

Also think about recruiting... Most young red blooded american males aren't going to go to the military if they know they would have to put up with that crap...

After a few years you mine as well change the colors to pink

 

[Pronto]

The current military candidates are educated, disciplined and have the right frame of mind. A flaming gay would not make the grade for that criteria. Since there are homosexuals all ready in the service (that are not flaming) they must be comforming to military life without being disruptive sexually to straights. So what is "the crap"? Are straight men reporting sexual assaults?

What about unwanted sexual advances by men on women? The rate of rape of women in the service is higher than the general public (civilian rape/assault 1/6 under reported-military 1/3 under reported). If anything, straights would pose a worse threat of unwanted sexual advances than a homosexual. Why would a straight guy put up with that "crap" from fellow straight guys? Is it "OK" in the servicie to rape or harass a woman that you are serving with?

 

[SGRIM]

The current military candidates are educated, disciplined and have the right frame of mind. A flaming gay would not make the grade for that criteria. Since there are homosexuals all ready in the service (that are not flaming) they must be comforming to military life without being disruptive sexually to straights. So what is "the crap"? Are straight men reporting sexual assaults?

What about unwanted sexual advances by men on women? The rate of rape of women in the service is higher than the general public (civilian rape/assault 1/6 under reported-military 1/3 under reported). If anything, straights would pose a worse threat of unwanted sexual advances than a homosexual. Why would a straight guy put up with that "crap" from fellow straight guys? Is it "OK" in the servicie to rape or harass a woman that you are serving with?

Rape doesn't have to involve a female...

 

[Pronto]

So you are conserned gays will rape straights? How interesting. You portray gays as fairies but yet they are sexually and physically aggressive enough to rape a man. I just don't see Adam Lambert raping Rambo.

 

[SGRIM]

So you are conserned gays will rape straights? How interesting. You portray gays as fairies but yet they are sexually and physically aggressive enough to rape a man. I just don't see Adam Lambert raping Rambo.

My dad was a prison gaurd for many years, doesn't take a genius to figure out what he saw. Not all of them are "faries" as you put it... I said earlier I am sure there are many gays tougher than me... Use your mind dude...