Military "Don't ask, Don't tell" Agree or disagree?

[Otto J]

Once someone started wearing a little scarf around their neck or tieing their shirt in a knot on their stomach things would be getting out of control

 

[WH1_T-Type]

Sorry, but you are ill-informed.
There is strict military law regarding homosexual conduct and even fraternization among service members. It is not a double standard, it is two differing bodies of law.
We also need to address the question of gay superiors abusing their powers regarding subordinates (I know that cold never happen, given the moral superiority of the gay lifestyle.
99% of the population shouldn't be placed at risk for the benefit of 1%

D :smile:

No I am not. I am not saying that civilian law and UCMJ are one and the same. I understand that they are seperate institutions, my point is that in general both follow the same guidelines when it comes to discrimination.

The strict laws against homosexuality are outdated. People are a LOT more open minded in the military then you seem to think. At all of my commands I ask this question (we get bored out to sea) and, in general, the older guys in the later part of their careers are against changing it and the younger are not. This is of course an informal poll, but it has spaned a pretty large number of people so far, and will span more once I get to Guantanamo Bay in a month or so.

Why do you think that an openly gay superior would abuse power any more then an openly straight person? That makes absolutly zero sense. I never said they were morally superior (far from it), but that they are people. Human beings. How is a person being open about their sexuality putting anyone at risk?

Given your handle, I suspect you are letting your religious brain washing influence something that has nothing to do with religion.

This is nothing more than political correctness ! It is another situation to tear down established norms. I served in the U.S.M.C. 68-70 during the war in viet Nam, This would never been allowed then and shouldn't be now. IMO Its the military,and its not a social experiment.

This isn't the 60's and 70's. Thankfully. Times change. Deal with it.

I think it is f'd up myself... I wouldn't want to be in the same shower with a known gay man... I am sure no man would ever look at me but even if I caught him looking funny I would be pissed... It would just make me uncomfortable. Seeing as how the soliders put their lives on the line daily they should at least be comfortable in their relaxing time...

Bottom line though it should be up the Military not the freaking politicians IMO...

Sounds like the person with the issue is you then.

Well, blacks and women are allowed in the military. Some racist might not want to shower with a black guy or some sexist might not want to take orders from a woman. There are plenty of excellent blacks and women serving their nation. Why couldn't the same be true for an open homomsexual?

Exactly.

 

[benoitthegr8]

As much as I love the music of the Metal Gods... tell me who would want to bunk, shower, and participate in combatives with this guy....

"hey can I try to pass your guard again, by the way that's a big sharpie in my pocket"....

 

[WH1_T-Type]

Oh come one....the military has rules regarding dress and general conduct towards other people. The flamboyent ones would not be able to do that kind of behavior while in uniform. It would really just free up how they are allowed to act when in their off time.

 

[Pronto]

I don't see any blacks with huge afros or women with pink ribbons in their hair. Everyone has to comform to the dress code and behavior codes or face discipline.
With about 2.5 million in the armed forced and reserves if just 1% of them are homosexuals that means there's about 23,000 serving right now. Are they any more disruptive than gang members or neo nazi's that are in the service?

 

[Texas Turbo T]

 

[SGRIM]

Sounds like the person with the issue is you then.

Okay, so what you are saying it is fine for others, lets say very homophobic men, to be uncomfortable in their work place enviorment as long as the fagerals are happy? Who cares if straight men can't take a shower for all the fags huh?


I know the purpose of your arguement but you aren't looking at it from both sides...

I am not in the military so I can't say one way or the other...

 

[WH1_T-Type]

What I'm saying is it is a lot less of an issue to most people that I have come across in the military now. Those same guys are already taking a shower with gay men and there are no issues. The gay men aren't hitting on them or anything like that now, so why would that change if suddenly they aren't going to get kicked out for someone just knowing that they are gay? The military already has rules/regulations against that kind of behavior in the work place...so again, it comes down to out dated discrimination.

 

[SGRIM]

What I'm saying is it is a lot less of an issue to most people that I have come across in the military now. Those same guys are already taking a shower with gay men and there are no issues. The gay men aren't hitting on them or anything like that now, so why would that change if suddenly they aren't going to get kicked out for someone just knowing that they are gay? The military already has rules/regulations against that kind of behavior in the work place...so again, it comes down to out dated discrimination.

Like I said I am not in the military and can not speak directly about it. Just showing you I am not the one with the problem...

I don't think you will find to many straight men that are going to happily jump in the shower with gays... Maybe if they have been friends for a long time before the coming out, but to just say "okay these men are gay and they are in your unit so deal with it" isn't going to float to good among red blooded american males IMO

 

[WH1_T-Type]

You are assuming that they gay males (why does it always boil down to the men...why don't people assume that the straight women would have issues?) ARE going to come out to the people they work with. Why would they? Is it any of their peers business?

All that repealing don't ask/don't tell would really do is prevent the homosexuals from getting kicked out for something that has no bearing on whether or not they can defend their country. Would some choose to come out at work? Sure. And they would have to deal with the way people treated them. If it got out of hand, the people that were discriminating would be the ones punished. EXACTLY how it is if they discriminate against ANYONE else for ANY OTHER reason.

 

[SGRIM]

You are assuming that they gay males (why does it always boil down to the men...why don't people assume that the straight women would have issues?) ARE going to come out to the people they work with. Why would they? Is it any of their peers business?

All that repealing don't ask/don't tell would really do is prevent the homosexuals from getting kicked out for something that has no bearing on whether or not they can defend their country. Would some choose to come out at work? Sure. And they would have to deal with the way people treated them. If it got out of hand, the people that were discriminating would be the ones punished. EXACTLY how it is if they discriminate against ANYONE else for ANY OTHER reason.

Same thing for bull dikes if that makes you happy...

You miss the point. It is like you are putting a mouse in a cage full of predators and punishing the predators for eating the mouse

People are not supposed to be gay. So it is a NATURAL reaction by anyone that finds it offensive. Nothing discriminatory about it... You can't force people to like each other... It is not like a gay is a different color or something they can't keep to themselves...

 

[WH1_T-Type]

ah. You are basing you opinions on Religious brain washing made obvious about the comment about people not 'supposed' to be gay. Never mind. Not worth trying to point out allowing people to be who they are.

 

[SGRIM]

ah. You are basing you opinions on Religious brain washing made obvious about the comment about people not 'supposed' to be gay. Never mind. Not worth trying to point out allowing people to be who they are.

Ah, that is a good way to back off...

If people were "supposed" to be gay we wouldn't be here! Gays can't reproduce. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out:wink:

 

[WeAreVenom]

You are assuming that they gay males (why does it always boil down to the men...why don't people assume that the straight women would have issues?) ARE going to come out to the people they work with. Why would they? Is it any of their peers business?

That's the problem with you guys. You talk as if homosexuals in the military will be walking around with shirts that say, "LOOK AT ME! I'M GAY!". Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ. They're already serving in the military RIGHT NOW! They're already showering with their straight peers RIGHT NOW! They're already helping to protect our country RIGHT NOW!

How can any of you gung-ho military/'Merica people look down on men and women that are willing to risk their lives to protect your right to hate them?

 

[SGRIM]

That's the problem with you guys. You talk as if homosexuals in the military will be walking around with shirts that say, "LOOK AT ME! I'M GAY!". Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ. They're already serving in the military RIGHT NOW! They're already showering with their straight peers RIGHT NOW! They're already helping to protect our country RIGHT NOW!

How can any of you gung-ho military/'Merica people look down on men and women that are willing to risk their lives to protect your right to hate them?

That is the point... As long as the don't ask don't tell policy is in affect none of this should be a problem...

 

[WeAreVenom]

As long as the don't ask don't tell policy is in affect none of this should be a problem...

As long as gays don't get kicked out when it's somehow discovered they're gay, it shouldn't be a problem either.

 

[Pronto]

I would suspect if they give up the don't ask/don't tell, the majority of homosexuals that would enlist would be lesbians. I doubt most gays would want to comform to military life. I can see tough lesbians getting along fine crawling around in the mug or learning how to fight with a knife though.

 

[Audie1]

No I am not. I am not saying that civilian law and UCMJ are one and the same. I understand that they are seperate institutions, my point is that in general both follow the same guidelines when it comes to discrimination.

The strict laws against homosexuality are outdated. People are a LOT more open minded in the military then you seem to think. At all of my commands I ask this question (we get bored out to sea) and, in general, the older guys in the later part of their careers are against changing it and the younger are not. This is of course an informal poll, but it has spaned a pretty large number of people so far, and will span more once I get to Guantanamo Bay in a month or so.

Why do you think that an openly gay superior would abuse power any more then an openly straight person? That makes absolutly zero sense. I never said they were morally superior (far from it), but that they are people. Human beings. How is a person being open about their sexuality putting anyone at risk?
Given your handle, I suspect you are letting your religious brain washing influence something that has nothing to do with religion.
This isn't the 60's and 70's. Thankfully. Times change. Deal with it.
Sounds like the person with the issue is you then.

You sure are defending the "Other Team" alot???
I personaly think that it is sick for guys to have sex with each other.........I mean getting poop on your wienner..........that's sick!!! I think that guys become homo's when they can't score with a woman, due to feelings of inferiority or lack of self confidence........or they are just a few fries short of a happy meal IMO. Our country is slowly going to Hell. Morals are becoming a thing of the past. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, at what point will society quit worring about offending a few morally corrupt person's rights.......You have the right to stay in the closet....and don't come out....ever!
I just thank God that I did not have to serve with any openly gay soldiers in all the years that I served in the Army. Would not want some guy tring to look at my butt while we were in a foxhole........these are my opinions and I stick by them.

 

[GNBRETT]

Okay, so what you are saying it is fine for others, lets say very homophobic men, to be uncomfortable in their work place enviorment as long as the fagerals are happy? Who cares if straight men can't take a shower for all the fags huh?


I know the purpose of your arguement but you aren't looking at it from both sides...

I am not in the military so I can't say one way or the other...

If the world broke out into WWIII like in the movie Red Dawn for example would you feel comfortable with a gay man or woman to defend your freedom and put their life on the line for you or would you feel more comfortable with a stright man or woman putting their life on the line? Just curious?

The military is about protecting our freedom, not about what some guy/girl is gonna see when he/she goes to takes a shower. I'm sure there are just as many guys/girls in the closet then open about it. So the shower argument is kinda pointless.

I can tho understand the argument pertaining to unity within a specialized unit tho while out in the bush for example. But again, if a gay guy wants to take a bullet for me they all the power to him/her.

If I was in the battlefield there would be other things concerning me but the military isn't all about the battlefield for many so I can see peoples issues.

No different then having an issue with race or gender I guess. Tow each his own to what offends you. I could just care less if PHYSICALLY you can do the job.

 

[WH1_T-Type]

You sure are defending the "Other Team" alot???
I personaly think that it is sick for guys to have sex with each other.........I mean getting poop on your wienner..........that's sick!!! I think that guys become homo's when they can't score with a woman, due to feelings of inferiority or lack of self confidence........or they are just a few fries short of a happy meal IMO. Our country is slowly going to Hell. Morals are becoming a thing of the past. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, at what point will society quit worring about offending a few morally corrupt person's rights.......You have the right to stay in the closet....and don't come out....ever!
I just thank God that I did not have to serve with any openly gay soldiers in all the years that I served in the Army. Would not want some guy tring to look at my butt while we were in a foxhole........these are my opinions and I stick by them.

My wife and I have several friends that are gay and in committed relationships (how we know them) that happen to be in the military. Yet if the wrong person finds out that they are gay, they can get kicked out. We don't think that is right. We also don't think it is any of our business what another person does in the bedroom.

What does a persons sexuality have to do with whether or not they can defend YOU?