Is the racing dead?

[VETKILR]

Bob Smiths post hit the nail on the head as well!

 

[Razor]

The total number of all performance Buicks ever produced are small in numbers. It seems that these turbo Buick events have no desire to mix with V8 Buicks, especially since the classes are turbo specific. So you are alienating an already small group of performance Buicks into an even smaller group. I am a Buick guy. I have owned GS's since 1977 & turbo Buicks since 1991. I enjoy showing my cars and I enjoy making passes at the track. With all of the different classes at these events now, I have no idea where I should try to run anymore. And since there isn't usually a show aspect to the turbo events, there isn't a lot of incentive for me to attend some of these events. An occasional weekend warrior used to be able to participate in an event by showing his car and then jump into a bracket race. Now it seems many of these events are designed for pure racers only. Since the majority of performance Buick owners are not serious racers, the majority of these cars are being alienated...........so just go with bracket racing for all Buicks, not just turbo Buicks. The majority of turbo Buicks are owned by long time Buick enthusiasts, who also own V8 Buicks. I stongly recommend that we try to bring these two groups together.

Great Post.

Use to be BOP That was the group that let the TR's in.. look what happened..

 

[Sydwyndr]

I ran my Mustang at Reynolds(Buicks vs The World) in the 10.49 index class and had a blast. I broke out on the semi's.. with a 10.48 :redface:

Throwing prize money at winners doesnt bring cars. It helps those winning with their hobby, but the majority of us I feel do this for fun..

Cool

No truer words just got spoken right thar lemme tell ya.

 

[TexasT]

Lots of talk about index racing I see... Horsepower needs to be a non issue when it comes to people wanting to compete. I was talking to Anthony for BPG that he might want to look at running a 11.49 and 12.49 index class. That puts the class just outside of the rollcage rule and lets ANY 9/10/11 second (show quality) street car compete regardless of HP ratings. Anthony even tried to get the to relax the cage rule for BPG and not only did he get a no, he got a HELL NO!!! Im fairly certain that I brought index racing to the Buick world back in Reynolds several years ago. Lots of grumbling about it because they simply didn't understand it. Now the guys who run it love it. It takes the car out of the equation for the most part and brings the driver into play MUCH more, just as 1/8th mile racing does in my opinion... At least Index is heads-up / pro tree just as all the heads up classes would be without worrying that someone will have the class covered by a half second or better which equals lower car count.

IMO Index racing is the next big thing in Buick land. I been tryin for 3 years now..

I would like to suggest a 13.49 and maybe a 14.0 class for the restored guys who might not want to beat on their vehicle and don't have any desire to bolt on sticky tires. The Goodyear eagle has a hard time hooking up but you night get a couple or more who want to run but beating their car up isn't where they are at. Might even get them hooked in to step up to a faster unit in the future.

 

[buickman69]

I never come to this site anymore, but I have insomnia tonight & for some reason landed here and found this thread.

Over the last few years I've noticed a dwindling of turbo regals at events. The car count has been low. To add there are way too many classes and few cars per class.

Is it just me or are a lot of owners just not interested in racing the cars anymore. Bet if we did a car show we'd get 500 cars.

Or do the classes just feel out of reach to the average owner?

What would it take to get you as an owner of a turbo regal to actually bring the car to an event and participate racing it?

Thoughts?

I have not read every post.. but I have been a Buick-Enthusiast for over 20 years and Buicks (in general) are classics or antiques now.
A friend just spent $45 GRAND on a frame off resto of his GS. You could easily spend that kinda money on a turbo car too. The guys that are restoring them aren't gonna want to drive them or race them after putting all that money into them.

I can remember in the early 90's during the week of the Buick GS Nationals, getting off I-65 @ Scottsville Rd BG KY on Tuesday-Night and all I saw was Buicks crusing the streets of BG, motel parking lots darn near full and everyone hanging out having a big time.
In the 80s it was more Buick V8 muscle rumbling around. Mid-90s the amount of V8 Buicks at the event were getting less and less every year.

Now the turbo cars are dwendling down.. cause of age being 1 reason.

I haven't been to the GSCA event in BG for 5 years and will never go back because they broke their rule all week long last time I was there:
7. All cars must be Buick powered. No corporate engines.
Source: General Race Rules for Bowling Green 2008. in GS Nationals - Race Forum

I'm not surprised that the turbo cars are falling off at the event simply because of age.
It's my understanding that the V8 cars are coming back more in the show now. In future there will probably be more Buicks in the show and maybe less racing.

Just my thoughts now, and everyone as a butt-hole--I mean an opinion.

Speaking for myself, I haven't done anything with a V8 Buick or turbo car in YEARS because of money and concern for making/saving. I've been so focused and determined I can't bring myself to spend a dime on a car. It's not gonna make me any money unless I race for money and I have never been a betting man.

For reasons only known to GOD I kept 1 turbo car, but sold all my V8 Buicks & another GN (shoulda kept the '72). Here is where/how it sits today:
YouTube - ‪Back on the dollies, my '87 Buick GN reached it's final destination‬‏

A high 10 second "street-car" was fast in the mid 90's. Today it's just another average joe. I have no interest in that car at all.
If I did.. I would build my dream Buick-V8 and go racing again with a 7-second 1/4 mile Buick V8, probably in a Chevy-body just to get under the skin of those at my local track who have done right the opposite LMAO..:biggrin:

Back to the point the topic, in my area, the car scene is dang near DEAD!! Nothing happening on the street, tracks having less turn out.. If I was ready to spend the money to build the project I want to do there is nothing or no-one motivating me to want to.
My buddy has a 4.90 1/8 mile all metal and glass Stang but neither one of us have the inspiration to put it back together and run it this year as there isn't anyone to go after to take down.

It seems to me like the car hobby may have died off somewhat or not as strong as it use to be. That has been the talk a little around here lately.

Agreed, this economy has a LOT to do with everything.

Maybe it will all come back. My dad always told me everything goes in cycles.

 

[powerwagon05]

dont know if its been brought up ? but i think it would be better to still keep the classes (ths,tso,tsm etc) but also have a straight bracket race portion at these events , with buy backs . i think it would generate more intrest ! just my 2 cents ! :biggrin:

 

[TexasT]

I'm not surprised that the turbo cars are falling off at the event simply because of age.



It seems to me like the car hobby may have died off somewhat or not as strong as it use to be. That has been the talk a little around here lately.

Agreed, this economy has a LOT to do with everything.

Maybe it will all come back. My dad always told me everything goes in cycles.

I agree with just about everything. The cycles thing gets me though as the next generation and the one after will be further and further away from cars as an expression and moving to cars as transportation. With the video game explosion just getting my son interested in cars is a chore. He likes mechanical things but prying him out of the chair away from the games is a formidable task. I see this in sports too. When I was in high school, being selected to be on a varsity team was something. Now they have to badger these kids to show up for practice. The times they are a changin'

 

[Alky V6]

You guys are making me feel old.
One can sit in their chair and lament the old times, or you can do something to stir the interest in young people. Or older people for that matter. There are times when I would rather sit in front of the TV or the computer and have a lazy day rather than loading the trailer up to go to a car show, or up to the track, but I realize if I did that, I would be part of the reason why the interest in cars is waning. I make it my responsibility to try to stir the interest in others a hobby that I have spent my life enjoying. Is that harder to do these days? Sure it is. That doesn't make the mission any less important. It's rewarding to have someone who has a genuine interest in the car come to you to ask questions, or just simply want to talk about cars.

I know this sounds awfully "noble" of me, but that's simply how I feel about it.

 

[Alky V6]

In these times, anything that can be done to make the hobby less expensive is going to help things. Many people don't have the extra cash to purchase the latest turbo, or torque converter, or heads, or cam to be competitive in these strictly ruled racing classes. The times are simply too tough for this form of racing. You want to encourage people to bring whatever they've got in their garage to the track.

Another thing. I'm going to tell ya, if you insist on making events Buick only, you are just going to make the death of our hobby come about quicker. How are you going to spread the interest in Buicks by keeping people out of events?

 

[The_Six]

I just read through most of this and figured I would join in. I love running my cars down the track. Granted I’ve yet to run my GN, but I’m just not in to racing the guy in the lane next to me I’m by far more interested in beating myself maybe it’s because of the cost to be competitive maybe not . When I did race at an event back when I was in to Pontiacs I didn’t go to win and make money I went to have fun and if I was lucky enough to win anything that was just icing on the cake. Truthfully I would have been happy with a dash plaque like you get at car shows everyone gets one and it’s cool for the scrap book. I know the race is the main event but maybe if you would just have a TT in-between for everyone else that just wants to run down the track and show their car off and give all of them a dash plaque that says they were there it would draw in more cars to go to the track. I mean what’s one of the most common questions asked on this site? If I have this turbo how fast can I go? This would be a good time for people to see how different combos on cars perform. They could see the car at a show in the pits and see it go down the track at the same time.
You could also give out trophies for things like fastest reaction time, have the stands vote for their favorite car. That way the hard core racers can still race for the money and the guys that just want to have fun running down the track and talk crap can do it to.

 

[Alky V6]

I just read through most of this and figured I would join in. I love running my cars down the track. Granted I’ve yet to run my GN, but I’m just not in to racing the guy in the lane next to me I’m by far more interested in beating myself maybe it’s because of the cost to be competitive maybe not . When I did race at an event back when I was in to Pontiacs I didn’t go to win and make money I went to have fun and if I was lucky enough to win anything that was just icing on the cake. Truthfully I would have been happy with a dash plaque like you get at car shows everyone gets one and it’s cool for the scrap book. I know the race is the main event but maybe if you would just have a TT in-between for everyone else that just wants to run down the track and show their car off and give all of them a dash plaque that says they were there it would draw in more cars to go to the track. I mean what’s one of the most common questions asked on this site? If I have this turbo how fast can I go? This would be a good time for people to see how different combos on cars perform. They could see the car at a show in the pits and see it go down the track at the same time.
You could also give out trophies for things like fastest reaction time, have the stands vote for their favorite car. That way the hard core racers can still race for the money and the guys that just want to have fun running down the track and talk crap can do it to.

You bring up a very important point. At my home track, no matter what special event is going on, there are always test and tune lanes open to anyone. The track realizes that the test and tune people are their bread and butter. You ignore the test and tune fellas, the track will die. In fact, that is where I spend most of my track days, in the TT lanes.

 

[SGRIM]

To the V8 guys;

You guys are more than welcome at the TurboBuick.com nationals. The reason for no classes is I honestly don't know enough about the cars to break them up into classes. We would need input from you racers!

I can guarantee that if you guys want to race and have some participation I will be happy to have payouts and support you guys however...

We didn't have a car show this year. However we will have a HUGE show next year. I plan on having a few ideas for that side of the event

As you all probably know Mr. Clark and I sponsor our event. Neither of us is looking to make a penny off of it. We enjoy giving to this community. So, personally I would like to keep it as BUICK related as possible. I really don't want to get into ford vs. buick or whatever. If you are a member of this board and participate and don't have a buick, but want to participate with whatever you got, bring it. You got a pass. We all enjoyed the exibition that COLD85 put on for us with his mopar this year. I really enjoy the comradery of the members of TurboBuick.com and other buick forums...

I love the ideas and will definitely incorporate them into our future events! Nice thread Julio!

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

I just read through most of this and figured I would join in. I love running my cars down the track. Granted I’ve yet to run my GN, but I’m just not in to racing the guy in the lane next to me I’m by far more interested in beating myself maybe it’s because of the cost to be competitive maybe not . When I did race at an event back when I was in to Pontiacs I didn’t go to win and make money I went to have fun and if I was lucky enough to win anything that was just icing on the cake. Truthfully I would have been happy with a dash plaque like you get at car shows everyone gets one and it’s cool for the scrap book. I know the race is the main event but maybe if you would just have a TT in-between for everyone else that just wants to run down the track and show their car off and give all of them a dash plaque that says they were there it would draw in more cars to go to the track. I mean what’s one of the most common questions asked on this site? If I have this turbo how fast can I go? This would be a good time for people to see how different combos on cars perform. They could see the car at a show in the pits and see it go down the track at the same time.
You could also give out trophies for things like fastest reaction time, have the stands vote for their favorite car. That way the hard core racers can still race for the money and the guys that just want to have fun running down the track and talk crap can do it to.

great post



maybe limit it to GM G and A body and anything else Buick powered.

 

[The_Six]

Thanks,
It would be a great time for vendors to show off their stuff to for example take a car and make a run with say a stock restall convertor and then run the same car with a 10or 9.5 and show the difference it makes kind of like they do with dyno tests but more for 60 times instead of horse power.
I would love to run my car down the track and then actually have some of the best TB tuners there are right there to give me suggestions on what to adjustments I should make.
And you have to have a show next year so I can show off all the cool body and engine bay mods I have done just dont look at the inside of the car to much I will still need seat and carpet.

 

[Slow91z]

dont know if its been brought up ? but i think it would be better to still keep the classes (ths,tso,tsm etc) but also have a straight bracket race portion at these events , with buy backs . i think it would generate more intrest ! just my 2 cents ! :biggrin:

Not sure what races you have been too but I have never been to a Buick event that didn't have bracket racing, at least not that I can think of.

 

[KevinB]

Does anyone know if there are any Oldsmobile or Pontiac events out there to merge with? It would be neat to go to a race and see some brand x guys there. I know they tried it the last year of the Bristol race and attendance was bad but how well was it advertised having a bop race? In norwalk this year there were probably at least 8 fwd 3800 cars there. Maybe one of the event organizers could hit them up and welcome them there? Let them setup their own classes or let them into the index classes. I think the events could draw more just need to reach out to other cars besides the turbo regals and v8 buicks.

 

[VETKILR]

FWD 3800s are becoming an up and coming group in some aspects, depends who you talk to as i have a close friend directly involved in the business aspect as he had the fastest fwd 3800 cars in the nation and now just does parts and got out of drag racing. The business in his words is not what it was, but the cars are coming more out in force as seen this year at Norwalk which seems to be the event for these cars as they are getting an array of fwd cars from all over the country. Intense Performance in Columbus Ohio did a few get togethers with good attendance at Norwalk for all fwd 3800 powered cars but now the company is in new ownership and not sure of their agenda.

I thought about creating a BOP event with assistance of Mike T of TA Performance. We spoke on this topic last year and thought of wanting to put the race at Norwalk. But i spoke with both event promoters of Pontiac Nationals which gets 900-1k cars a year and the Olds Nationals , both which run at Norwalk and they have no desire to split their events with another brand and really no desire to create a separate event because of the argument of which track would you run it at location wise! Atlanta? Norwalk?. Most cars seems to be in the midwest/southeast part of the country and northeast as well but are way too far away to get cars from California or out west.

I would love to create an all turbo event with help from Precison and some other sponsors similar to Street Car Nationals in Vegas. That is the most competitive drag racing event i have ever witnessed. Outlaw 10.5, Pro Street, the baddest in the nation hit that event, Period! But to me to open an event for all musclecars show and go like Supercar Showdown did in Ohio so well for the better part of 15 years would be awesome. Hemmings is doing it 2x a year with its show and go philosophy. I would love to see this happen again in the Buick world and also throw in other brands, could be a riot!

 

[scot w.]

People can speculate all they want but just look around you at "Dragracing" as a whole. It looks to me like drag racing is falling off EVERYWHERE you look! and now look at the Pro-touring movement and their events, They are Packed and the hobby is moving forward at a very fast pace. For example Look at events like the
*Optima street car challenge (Bill Goldberg is now working with a good friend of mine building a pro-touring car to have fun at events with)
*OUSCI
*SEMA
*GoodGuys- held in states- TX,CA,TN,IA,OH,IL,KS,NC,IN
*Run to the hills
*Motorstate challenge
*Holley LS fest - (mixed drag racing & autocross where? at good on Beech Bend in BG and the facility was completely PACKED! the autocross was held in the circle track!!)

Drag racing is dieing right now all over the world and as the result Tracks are closing because of it. I know some of the old Drag racers are switching over their drag race cars and having more fun at auto-crossing & road racing than a day at a dead race track.. Reason why, they get to enjoy their car ALL THE TIME instead of just at a drag strip! you can have fun on every twisty road, every on ramp/off ramp, drive it right onto any drag strip and still have your fun, drive it to autocross events and compete, and the king of fun "The Road course" that is just like a 1/4 drag strip with turns. and this type of event is growing in rapid numbers compared to the falling decline of drag racers now a days..

Just look on TB.com at all the people changing their cars over from the "Big & little" drag look to the low and handling "pro-touring" look... A bunch of people are doing this and that means this many aren't drag racing as often as they were before. Me included!

Richard Clark and I will be working together to have the first Buick/autocross event next year that will allow ALL makes and model vehicles to participate and I will tell you it will be completely awesome to participate in or at least watch. I will be giving "rides" in my car and DSE will also do the same so the people that have no idea or never done this will get some kind of idea what fun it really is and that it's 50% car and 50% driver.

Combining events together IS KEY or the Buick only events will dwindle down to nothing right before our eye's... It's time to take the horse blinders off the coordinators/Owners eye's and roll with the times! Reynolds started with allowing locals to run with us, turned out to be pretty cool and lot's of fun. Clint also brought out Index racing and that was also a success. Richard, Shane, Clint and I will be taking it one step further with the autocross and I know with the vendors I bring in and their cars it will be a fantastic event...

You have to roll with the times or your left back in time!


Scot W.

 

[Rebel]

I've only read thru 1/2 the thread, so if I repeat anything that has already been said that's why. I'll re-read it when I have more time. We bracket race our GN on a regular basis. It takes a lot to make it run consistently but it can be done. I don't beat myself up for not repeating a number but watch what the other guys are doing. More than likely, if I'm not running my number, neither is anybodya else: weaterher, track, etc... Last week in time trials I ran an 11.603 and a 11.599 and lost 1st round w/11.750. I think I messed up at the finish plus weather went wacky. I think that's why alot of guys give up on brackets. But, in time trials, got paired w/ the track champ that runs Street and Pro, beat him w/a .019 light to his .022 and quicker at the end. Did it again second time trial. So, my point is, brackets is a roller coaster ride of things that are out of your control and can be won alot of times on luck. Bracket racing achieved at it's core is hard to beat: kill at the tree and know your car. Turbo Buick's struggle because of age and different rebuild combos that just can't stay consistent. Index racing is a whole nuther story, you have to build, scheme, and practice to fit. Any car has the same problem. I ran Pinks, nothing but an index race and had tons of fun. I think street racing is a powder keg, ending up in a wheel chair or coffin makes legit drag racing costs look like a bargain.

 

[Tiretoter]

I haven't been to the GSCA event in BG for 5 years and will never go back because they broke their rule all week long last time I was there:
7. All cars must be Buick powered. No corporate engines.
Source: General Race Rules for Bowling Green 2008. in GS Nationals - Race Forum

Go ahead and saw your thumb off with a butter knife to spite your hand would ya!

This is pretty simple. Too many events, a bad economy and high gas and diesel prices. While we do indeed have an aging enthusiast base, and granted the cars are getting older, I still feel these are secondary to the real issues. The disposable income to support multiple events just isnt there anymore for the majority of us; racers, show guys and sponsors alike. We go to a couple events a year on a wing and a prayer that we dont leave the bottom end in the bleach box.

I feel that if the different people organizing the local/regional events would instead put that same effort into one of the National events it would make a big difference in more ways than one. More or less "fold" their event into one of the National events with the same level of effort they put into running their event and gathering sponsorships for their event. Granted, in some cases they do i.e. Cal and Holley make a huge splash at BG each year, and I'm sure there are others. But the regional/local events come at the cost of participation at the National events, in terms of both attendees and sponsors/vendors. (Dont forget, vendors are just like the rest of us, they cant ALL attend multiple events each year either, nor can they sponsor multiple events each year.) This would most certainly increase attendance and payouts at the National level. Besides, we all understand that we have a limited and dwindling number of Buick vendor/sponsors anymore, and they can only be spread so thin.

Also, there are too many classes anymore, especially at BG. For instance, who thinks we need 5 bracket classes in BG??? Not me! I have never understood that, it just spreads the limited amount of prizes and winnings even further. On the V8 side at BG, this past year we combined GS Pro Street and GS Street Eliminator due to low car count into one "Open Comp" style class. (Each car got 3-4 qualifying runs. The class was run on a Pro Tree with your best qualifying e.t. being your dial in for all of eliminations, and you cannot run quicker than that dial.) Competition was stiff and the racers loved it. We plan to run the same format for these classes again this year.

Same goes for the Show and Shine side of things. The show guys are no different, there are many who will pull to show at a local or regional event and forgo the National level event due to expense, budget, distance etc. This makes the show at the National level less inspiring because car count is down, variety is down, and certainly quality overall may be down. The people involved in show and shine at the local and regional event could pool their talents at the National level and make a huge difference.

I dont know if it would work, but I can see a large National event that is a combination of the National event and the local/regional events. An event within an event so to speak. However, I dont think that the cooperation will ever exist for this to happen. Cooperation and egos that is. I dont think you could keep it from becoming a big penis contest no matter what. :biggrin:

I guess in a nutshell it is going to take fewer and or combined events and an improvement in the economy/fuel prices before we see ANY event that remotely resembles, for instance, a BG of yesteryear.