Is the racing dead?
- Thread starter Razor
- Start date
A track that I can DRIVE to.Our one and only track closed 3/31/06!
All you need is the street racing on the island to get crazy and push to re-open it.
My local dragstrip SunShine Dragstrip We Make Racing Fun For Everyone! was bought out by the state to make a traffic connection between two busy roads.. they have left the track open because they understand the local need to have such a place for the kids/ricers.
The circle track next to it is now the test track for the windshield passes.
Well, that's your opinion, that's ok, but not mine. Personnally, I find no fun in getting beat every first run. In heads-up, if you don't have the fastest or second fastest car of the field (which has never been my case) forget it, you won't last very long. You just can't count on the other racers mistakes or mishaps (red lights, broke something, etc...) round after round to win an event. That's exactly why I much prefer bracket over heads-up racing, but "to each his own".
I need to disagree with this one
The fastest car doesn't always WIN!!!
I have been racing for 5 or 6 years now and can tell you I HAVE NEVER HADTHE FASTEST CAR!!!
Honestlly I tried to be the most CONSISTANT.
and I do believe consistancy WINS RACE'S!!!!
I personally love heads up racing because you never know what the other guy is going to DO!!!
JD
I need to disagree with this one
The fastest car doesn't always WIN!!!
I have been racing for 5 or 6 years now and can tell you I HAVE NEVER HADTHE FASTEST CAR!!!
Honestlly I tried to be the most CONSISTANT.
and I do believe consistancy WINS RACE'S!!!!
I personally love heads up racing because you never know what the other guy is going to DO!!!
JD
As many of you have seen my posts for the BPG event. Coordinating an event is a daunting task to say the least. We have the factors of hot July Ohio weather, a rollercoaster economy, gas prices, an aging car/enthusiast group,etc. Julio hit the nail on the head. People will pay for their vices. We are a small group among the Chevy and Ford brands. Our cars arent new anymore. Many have been raced, totalled, scraped, rusted out or are garage queens. The two in my signature get out maybe 2-3x a year. Many more are still in the wrapper. Parts are hard to find. People are starting to restore these cars as "collectible value" increases dramatically.
Im not a diehard racer, hell my times down the 1/4 have been very limited that is for sure! But the reason i went for 15 straight years (90-05) to BG for the GSCA Nats was for the racing. To see cars and see all the license plates from all over the US racing in Super 16 and all the classes, was awesome. A true national event! Streets were littered with black GNs and was humorous seeing BG police chase after them in their 3.1 Lumina cop cars. And congregating at Auto Zone parking lot. Street racing down Scottsville Road. But now sadly, with a lot less owners, less cars available, an aging group of owners (though people my age, 29, are still into these cars) the numbers are not comparable in the slightest means to mass volume owners of Camaros and Mustangs,etc. Other than Buick events you never see this cars in full force and it is fun because most car people and enthusiasts have no idea what they are looking at seeing a TR or even a GN. Still cult status which i love!
So an event to get back has to bring the fun back to cover all avenues for the enthusiast. I wanted to bring together all the original personnel for the TR/TTA (Jim C's baby is of course the TTA):biggrin: to give a historical documentation of the engineers who built the car, tested, designed and made it into a car we all love and appreciate today. Now it may be the last time they ever meet again in one place and is the first place outside of Flint or Pontiac to have them all together in one place. Im damn proud of that fact.
Point being events may have to merge and you have to create new ideas to keep people excited and attending these events. At 29, not many friends of mine who are my age and are car guys know what Buicks are, unless they grow up with them or know someone who has them. We dont have the mass market appeal that Chevy or Ford has, not even close. But we still have an awesome vehicle that still kicks major ACE 25 years later.
Someone else needs to come up with race classes that will people excited and fill the lanes with quality numbers in all classes. But also you need to cater to the car show crowd. I know plenty of guys with TRs that are show quality 9/10 second street cars with full power options (thats what makes our cars so great:smile but also ones with bone stock street cars that just want to admire others cars and sit around and shoot the breeze. And you have to market an event thats appealing for vendors so they know they are making a worthwhile trip to make money but also support enthusiasts that support them and in turn buy their products.
Its easy sounding on paper, like everything else. But when you add factors of most expensive used car market in 16 years (meaning people are paying more to buy cars), gas increase (really shock is a better term), economic fallout, job loss, etc. these factors are hard to combat and thus you either deal with it and save to go to the events you can attend or you dont go or decide to sell you car. Options are multiple with different answers as well.
I hope someone decides to keep this community together. Or years down the road we will be a "dead" car group. I honestly dont see it happening, but cars are getting harder to find, ditto for parts and the 1k car counts of old GS Nats events are over and probably will never happen again. People dont have the money or simply lost interest in attending and too fearful of accidents or breaking their cars b/c they dont have money to fix or they just dont want to have to go through those headaches. So they go to a few shows a year and drive their cars to local events or they stay garage queens. As they get older, values will go up too so more and more probably will be returned to stock or restored, some raced but how many are left??
Im not a diehard racer, hell my times down the 1/4 have been very limited that is for sure! But the reason i went for 15 straight years (90-05) to BG for the GSCA Nats was for the racing. To see cars and see all the license plates from all over the US racing in Super 16 and all the classes, was awesome. A true national event! Streets were littered with black GNs and was humorous seeing BG police chase after them in their 3.1 Lumina cop cars. And congregating at Auto Zone parking lot. Street racing down Scottsville Road. But now sadly, with a lot less owners, less cars available, an aging group of owners (though people my age, 29, are still into these cars) the numbers are not comparable in the slightest means to mass volume owners of Camaros and Mustangs,etc. Other than Buick events you never see this cars in full force and it is fun because most car people and enthusiasts have no idea what they are looking at seeing a TR or even a GN. Still cult status which i love!
So an event to get back has to bring the fun back to cover all avenues for the enthusiast. I wanted to bring together all the original personnel for the TR/TTA (Jim C's baby is of course the TTA):biggrin: to give a historical documentation of the engineers who built the car, tested, designed and made it into a car we all love and appreciate today. Now it may be the last time they ever meet again in one place and is the first place outside of Flint or Pontiac to have them all together in one place. Im damn proud of that fact.
Point being events may have to merge and you have to create new ideas to keep people excited and attending these events. At 29, not many friends of mine who are my age and are car guys know what Buicks are, unless they grow up with them or know someone who has them. We dont have the mass market appeal that Chevy or Ford has, not even close. But we still have an awesome vehicle that still kicks major ACE 25 years later.
Someone else needs to come up with race classes that will people excited and fill the lanes with quality numbers in all classes. But also you need to cater to the car show crowd. I know plenty of guys with TRs that are show quality 9/10 second street cars with full power options (thats what makes our cars so great:smile
but also ones with bone stock street cars that just want to admire others cars and sit around and shoot the breeze. And you have to market an event thats appealing for vendors so they know they are making a worthwhile trip to make money but also support enthusiasts that support them and in turn buy their products.Its easy sounding on paper, like everything else. But when you add factors of most expensive used car market in 16 years (meaning people are paying more to buy cars), gas increase (really shock is a better term), economic fallout, job loss, etc. these factors are hard to combat and thus you either deal with it and save to go to the events you can attend or you dont go or decide to sell you car. Options are multiple with different answers as well.
I hope someone decides to keep this community together. Or years down the road we will be a "dead" car group. I honestly dont see it happening, but cars are getting harder to find, ditto for parts and the 1k car counts of old GS Nats events are over and probably will never happen again. People dont have the money or simply lost interest in attending and too fearful of accidents or breaking their cars b/c they dont have money to fix or they just dont want to have to go through those headaches. So they go to a few shows a year and drive their cars to local events or they stay garage queens. As they get older, values will go up too so more and more probably will be returned to stock or restored, some raced but how many are left??
toofastforyou
2FAST4U
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
JD, it's very true that consistancy wins races...but you got to admit that when racing heads-up, logically the fastest car in the field has an advantage over the slower ones. And if the fastest car also happens to be the most consistant (without red lighting), well I don't see what could keep him from ending up in the final.
Claude.
P.S: As for what the guy in the other lane does, I couldn't care less, as long as I get to the end before him! :biggrin:
Far as that goes it could include the mouths that help start it...
Come on man.... Trying to have a productive thread here...
The last 2 ths races I participated in, the #3 qualifier won. In Norwalk, I was #3 and was almost .5 seconds behind #1. I won due to good lights and a little luck. The fastest car doesn't always win is so true.
I do agree!!!!!
All I really want to see is 12 to 16 cars in classes, (heads up or index!!!)
RACING!!!!!!!
P.S I don't care either, I just want to RACE!!!
JD
REALLY!!! when was the last race you where AT!!!
That's right, you and your brother got your BUTTS kicked because of your big MOUTH'S!!!!
Your right, this kind behavior hasn't HELPED AT ALL!!!!
This thread is for People that are interested in GROWING!!! Buick racin, not people that want to be NEGATIVE!!!
JD
At my home track they do a lot of bracket racing. The problem I see is, someone with a stock late model Corvette has an easy time taking home the money most times.
We recently had a track rental where the organizers featured index classes. That was a blast. It divided up the performance levels of the cars and kept the slow stock cars away from the faster cars.
In the index classes they were spaced .5 seconds apart. That made it easier for someone to pick a class they might feel they have a chance in without having to drastically de-tune the car.
There was even a .1 sec fudge factor during eliminations. Kinda like Pinks. You had to qualify in your index, though. If just one qualifying run (you had 3) went under, you were automatically placed in the faster class.
This type of racing throws all the equipment rules out the window. Run what you brung, with a much better chance of taking home something.
For the fastest cars, there was a quick 8 field.
I was taken out in the semis by .025 second (hole shot win). Very exciting racing.
The payouts covered first and second place.
We recently had a track rental where the organizers featured index classes. That was a blast. It divided up the performance levels of the cars and kept the slow stock cars away from the faster cars.
In the index classes they were spaced .5 seconds apart. That made it easier for someone to pick a class they might feel they have a chance in without having to drastically de-tune the car.
There was even a .1 sec fudge factor during eliminations. Kinda like Pinks. You had to qualify in your index, though. If just one qualifying run (you had 3) went under, you were automatically placed in the faster class.
This type of racing throws all the equipment rules out the window. Run what you brung, with a much better chance of taking home something.
For the fastest cars, there was a quick 8 field.
I was taken out in the semis by .025 second (hole shot win). Very exciting racing.
The payouts covered first and second place.
Index racing is the key. I think. No weight rules just times. Heads up classes are my favorite racing, however taking a 35xx pound Buick a killing the V6 in it just takes tons of money. I have had plans for a 109 hybrid build because I have always wanted a light weight chassis with the Buick turbo V6 power plant in it. I have been holding out on doing that because of money and health issues. I think often had nightmare thoughts about wrinkling my Buick and damaging yet another classic. Wouldn't think twice about letting it fly with a platform such as a fox-body. But without a cool hybrid class or index class to race at the buick events its going to stick me with my local index or bracket stuff. I can do that with a much much cheaper V8 platform, its just not as cool. So just my 2 cents.
I now have my scramble switch wired up.
Index Racing
It's very challenging tuning the car to run as close as you dare get to the lower limit of your index.
With the .1 fudge factor during eliminations, it adds a bit of uncertainty and street racer trickery into the scheme of things.
It's very challenging tuning the car to run as close as you dare get to the lower limit of your index.
With the .1 fudge factor during eliminations, it adds a bit of uncertainty and street racer trickery into the scheme of things.
Index Style Buick Classes
This is what I'd like to see more of..... It keeps the racing close. However if it's a buick race event it should be buick powered or a buick bodied car only. Who wants to take time off work, spend the money, drag their car to Buick event with thoughts they may be racing an import or a 5.0 mustang?
If that was my choice, I'd stay at home and go to the local track on Thurs & Sat night, in order to save money.
Sadly that’s what kept me from bringing a car to the TB Nats this year. I loved every minute of my time there, the company of all the members and will be back next year to help in anyway I can but truly I could not find a reason to bring a car other than just driving it around on the streets during my stay. No flame at all...so guys please don't take it that way, just giving honest feedback.
Nail on the head.....
I'm still a big fan of index racing, whether it be .49 or .90
I can see your logic for .49 cut points though! :biggrin:
Like was stated earlier, the only rules you need to worry about are the safety requirements. !!
I think I need to clerify my comments on the dwindling list of vendors that are showing up at the events. I sincerely appologize for any misunderstandings, I DID NOT mean to "single out" Mike at Full Throttle. I probably worded it incorrectly. I was actually lammeting the fact that I haven't seen him and his setup for quite some time and really miss him showing up. He and his crew always had such an impressive array of T/R specific performance parts at their booth/setup. Sorry Mike. You ARE NOT a slacker, we miss you, and understand why it's hard for anyone to make the events. The economy hurts us all. I know I'm sure feeling the crunch!!
I can see your logic for .49 cut points though! :biggrin:
Like was stated earlier, the only rules you need to worry about are the safety requirements. !!
I think I need to clerify my comments on the dwindling list of vendors that are showing up at the events. I sincerely appologize for any misunderstandings, I DID NOT mean to "single out" Mike at Full Throttle. I probably worded it incorrectly. I was actually lammeting the fact that I haven't seen him and his setup for quite some time and really miss him showing up. He and his crew always had such an impressive array of T/R specific performance parts at their booth/setup. Sorry Mike. You ARE NOT a slacker, we miss you, and understand why it's hard for anyone to make the events. The economy hurts us all. I know I'm sure feeling the crunch!!
Lots of talk about index racing I see... Horsepower needs to be a non issue when it comes to people wanting to compete. I was talking to Anthony for BPG that he might want to look at running a 11.49 and 12.49 index class. That puts the class just outside of the rollcage rule and lets ANY 9/10/11 second (show quality) street car compete regardless of HP ratings. Anthony even tried to get the to relax the cage rule for BPG and not only did he get a no, he got a HELL NO!!! Im fairly certain that I brought index racing to the Buick world back in Reynolds several years ago. Lots of grumbling about it because they simply didn't understand it. Now the guys who run it love it. It takes the car out of the equation for the most part and brings the driver into play MUCH more, just as 1/8th mile racing does in my opinion... At least Index is heads-up / pro tree just as all the heads up classes would be without worrying that someone will have the class covered by a half second or better which equals lower car count.
IMO Index racing is the next big thing in Buick land. I been tryin for 3 years now..
Horsepower needs to be a non issue when it comes to people wanting to compete. I was talking to Anthony for BPG that he might want to look at running a 11.49 and 12.49 index class. That puts the class just outside of the rollcage rule and lets ANY 9/10/11 second (show quality) street car compete regardless of HP ratings. Anthony even tried to get the to relax the cage rule for BPG and not only did he get a no, he got a HELL NO!!! Im fairly certain that I brought index racing to the Buick world back in Reynolds several years ago. Lots of grumbling about it because they simply didn't understand it. Now the guys who run it love it. It takes the car out of the equation for the most part and brings the driver into play MUCH more, just as 1/8th mile racing does in my opinion... At least Index is heads-up / pro tree just as all the heads up classes would be without worrying that someone will have the class covered by a half second or better which equals lower car count.IMO Index racing is the next big thing in Buick land. I been tryin for 3 years now..
The total number of all performance Buicks ever produced are small in numbers. It seems that these turbo Buick events have no desire to mix with V8 Buicks, especially since the classes are turbo specific. So you are alienating an already small group of performance Buicks into an even smaller group. I am a Buick guy. I have owned GS's since 1977 & turbo Buicks since 1991. I enjoy showing my cars and I enjoy making passes at the track. With all of the different classes at these events now, I have no idea where I should try to run anymore. And since there isn't usually a show aspect to the turbo events, there isn't a lot of incentive for me to attend some of these events. An occasional weekend warrior used to be able to participate in an event by showing his car and then jump into a bracket race. Now it seems many of these events are designed for pure racers only. Since the majority of performance Buick owners are not serious racers, the majority of these cars are being alienated...........so just go with bracket racing for all Buicks, not just turbo Buicks. The majority of turbo Buicks are owned by long time Buick enthusiasts, who also own V8 Buicks. I stongly recommend that we try to bring these two groups together.
I sure hope we think of ideas bc this thread is depressing me:frown: Merge regional events into a few big national events or large regional events. I would love to see more cars come from down south and out west to Ohio but with fuel and economy its unrealistic expectations. But if we merge or even create a few distinct regional events that may be the ticket. I would love to hit a few every year that is for sure. Egos will need to be left at the front door to get everyone's involvement : vendor, enthusiast, racer, show car owner, restoration specialist, tuner, etc. to positively and constructively contribute to the stability and growth of an event. Appeal to everyone which is hard b/c as they say opinions are like *$%^&)#$ everyone has one!
But save the drama for somewhere else. I would love to see what everyone thinks as all the major events : BG, Tb.com, BPG, Reynolds, Noble, Norwalk, all offer something positive to the community. But now 25 years later we have more events then ever and saturation is taking over. So now we have to figure out how to make a few events cover all enthusiast aspects, sponsors, vendors, etc or else events will dwindle to nothing and cause it to become an ego battle rather than the best events hanging around which i realize now is another can of worms that people will comment on Or we stagger events b/c when they run concurrent they get expensive really quick!
But save the drama for somewhere else. I would love to see what everyone thinks as all the major events : BG, Tb.com, BPG, Reynolds, Noble, Norwalk, all offer something positive to the community. But now 25 years later we have more events then ever and saturation is taking over. So now we have to figure out how to make a few events cover all enthusiast aspects, sponsors, vendors, etc or else events will dwindle to nothing and cause it to become an ego battle rather than the best events hanging around which i realize now is another can of worms that people will comment on
Or we stagger events b/c when they run concurrent they get expensive really quick!I ran my Mustang at Reynolds(Buicks vs The World) in the 10.49 index class and had a blast. I broke out on the semi's.. with a 10.48 :redface:
On events with lower car counts.. why not let more cars in.. Nothing worse than having 15 Buicks show up to race and the track empty with cars making solo passes. I understand not wanting to see 200 cars and 15 Buicks.. But at least the Buicks can get some action.. They say Cobra's taste like chicken
This is a neat part of Reynolds on Friday night allowing the locals in for action..
Case in point, the LSX shootout merged with the NMCA. And... the NMCA merges with the NMRA for a few events that are weak in car count. The point is fill up the track and have cars making rounds.. having fun.. car shows.. vendors.. pictures.. etc..
Throwing prize money at winners doesnt bring cars. It helps those winning with their hobby, but the majority of us I feel do this for fun..
I'm in for adding index classes.. want to make it more exciting.. lets make a class that involves a street cruise and race to weed out race cars.. you get to drive the cars.. and race them.. with other like/kind cars.
Cool
On events with lower car counts.. why not let more cars in.. Nothing worse than having 15 Buicks show up to race and the track empty with cars making solo passes. I understand not wanting to see 200 cars and 15 Buicks.. But at least the Buicks can get some action.. They say Cobra's taste like chicken
This is a neat part of Reynolds on Friday night allowing the locals in for action..
Case in point, the LSX shootout merged with the NMCA. And... the NMCA merges with the NMRA for a few events that are weak in car count. The point is fill up the track and have cars making rounds.. having fun.. car shows.. vendors.. pictures.. etc..
Throwing prize money at winners doesnt bring cars. It helps those winning with their hobby, but the majority of us I feel do this for fun..
I'm in for adding index classes.. want to make it more exciting.. lets make a class that involves a street cruise and race to weed out race cars.. you get to drive the cars.. and race them.. with other like/kind cars.
Cool
