Is the racing dead?

[Alky V6]

Donnie, I don’t know if you misunderstood my post or just how it came out. I based everything in my post off of the past several years of attending Buick events. There’s a lot of cars out there not making to the events, thats with in hrs of their location. Why are those people not bringing their cars to the events? Can someone tell me that? Do they not feel they have a venue in which they can show case their hard work? Do they think the racing is to over complicated for them to participate?

A good vendor count does help bring people out. I know the last time I attend Reynolds I was so disappointed with vendor turn out to the point I haven’t been back. I’m just not the hard core racer, I like to make a pass ever now and then….So when people like myself quit going the vendors quit going….just creating a snowball effect

Let me clue you into something. Vendors like exposure. EXPOSURE. They don't care if every person that walks by their booth is a BUICK person looking for shiny parts. They want exposure of their brand and the parts and/or services they provide. The more warm bodies, the better. THE MORE WARM BODIES, THE BETTER.
A Chevy enthusiast that may be on the fence looking to maybe try a BUICK as their next project, it sure would be nice to have that type of fella walk past a bunch of BUICK vendor booths showing the support that fella could have if he decided to turn to the BUICK side.

I for one, care nothing for class racing. By its nature, class racing is more expensive. Plus, I just don't like reading through a bunch of pages of rules dictating how I have to build my car, and what parts I have to use. That is a major turn off for me. A racing venue that can include everyone, is easy to enter with little RULES involved, and create competitive racing for everyone will be the best chance to increase interest in a race track event. Especially in these times.
The problem I see with class racing is that you're always going to have those sponsored individuals that are going to have the latest and greatest top secret turbo or converter or whatever. People aren't stupid. The other participants figure that stuff out pretty quick and get fed up with it and bow out. Pretty soon you only have a few heavy hitters still in the field. The others that aren't really wired to be spectators load it up and find something else to spend their time doing.
If you really want to kill this, keep trying to come up with more classes and more rules. It's rediculous how many different classes there are now. I hate reading rules, and now there are more to read through to discourage me and others even more?!

 

[getchasum]

I don’t have the attitude that I don't want other car enthusiasts gawking at my car. Heck...I attended all types of events…

Said it before and I’ll say it again…..

If I wanted to compete in a head to head competition against 5.0 mustangs and the import crowd. I’d drive to the local track that’s within 30 mins of my house (and many times I do) and save the money that it’d cost me to attend a Buick Event. If that’s close minded or having a bad attitude there’s a lot of other people out there feeling the same way.

I'm all in for a BOP or GM Event. Myself....I'm just not driving hrs, spending the money for anything else, I'll do that local.

I see the task at hand is how to get other Buick owners to get thier car out of the garage and I think Bob Smith's post Hit The Nial on the Head!

 

[Razor]

Donnie, I don’t know if you misunderstood my post or just how it came out. I based everything in my post off of the past several years of attending Buick events. There’s a lot of cars out there not making to the events, thats with in hrs of their location. Why are those people not bringing their cars to the events? Can someone tell me that? Do they not feel they have a venue in which they can show case their hard work? Do they think the racing is to over complicated for them to participate?

A good vendor count does help bring people out. I know the last time I attend Reynolds I was so disappointed with vendor turn out to the point I haven’t been back. I’m just not the hard core racer, I like to make a pass ever now and then….So when people like myself quit going the vendors quit going….just creating a snowball effect

Its a catch 22. To trailer in a bunch of merchandise, setup tables, setup tents, have assistants, end of day pack it back up and repeat the following day. There is a huge cost involved. Then those coming to the event want a show special... so they want to pay less for the item they are purchasing=less profit for the vendor. Sales are great.. cash is king.. but if you make limited profit on parts.. you really have to move a lot of merchandise.

Another problem is technically your suppossed to collect sales tax.. and that throws a whole other loop into the equation.. you sell a 700 dollar item.. charge 8% lets say tax thats 756 vs someone calling on the phone and paying 700 plus 15 to ship it cause its out of state.

I sell very little here in Florida due to this issue. Its cheaper for someone locally to buy a kit out of state and shipped to their door via UPS from a Vendor.

So you trailer in X amount of merchandise.. there are 100 people roaming around looking.. you sell a few hundred bucks and it cost you 2k to bring the stuff down(gas, employee, hotel, food, etc) and while your there vending.. guess what.. you cant leave your booth to watch racing, watch the car show, kick it back cause your there to run a business. Its tough..

So.. low car turnout.. low sales=no vendors. No vendors= lack of interest from those wanting to attend and look around.. Only way out of that rabbit hole is get more cars to the event, whether through showing, racing, displaying, etc to generate traffic.. =interest =sales =the start of this thread

Leave the car at home cause you dont want to put miles on it, stay at home cause the economy sucks, say i'll go next year when I can, complain its tooo hot, rents too high, baby needs shoes.. Taco Bell went up .25 cents.. etc.. make the excuses.. we have what we get= no events next year with any vendor participation. Unless its local to that particular vendor and he really has nothing to loose. 10 cars racing on an empty track.. and everyone staying at home asking "where's the video's.." cause its cheaper than going there.

Sorry for being dramatic. I understand its not possible for a person to go to every event.. but if the members on this board reading this commit to one event a year.. which in reality thats really nothing.. tracks would be full. And this thread would have never begun.

 

[Alky V6]

In my area, there are car clubs that hold track rentals at the different tracks that are in range. Of all the popular events of this type, ALL MODELS of cars are always encouraged to attend. The organizers realize that to make the event viable and have a chance of holding another the following year, they need participation. PARTICIPATION from all the warm bodies they can get to come to the event.
The event is heavily marketed under the organizing club's logo, but it's made very clear that EVERYONE is welcome. Those are the types of events I like going to the most. Heck! Who doesn't like beating up on some Ford or Chevy V8s.

I'd go to BUICK sponsored events that were local, if I felt it was run right and promoted our cars properly. After all, in the world of business, people do business with people, not events. If an event is going downhill, the promoters need to be looked at carefully. Are they the right sort of people that others like to support? Are they running the event properly? Are they open to feedback to make the event better for next year? Are they really in it for the cars and the community, or are they in it only for the money?

 

[getchasum]

Let me clue you into something. Vendors like exposure. EXPOSURE. They don't care if every person that walks by their booth is a BUICK person looking for shiny parts. They want exposure of their brand and the parts and/or services they provide. The more warm bodies, the better. THE MORE WARM BODIES, THE BETTER.

Let’s say the GS Nat’s started opening the event to all Brand-X and with in several years the event looked more like an import tuner convention. The vendor that specializes exclusively to Buick parts is going to be happy that all these folks are walking by his both not putting money in his pocket. You & I both know that it’s a financial decision for them as weather they go or not….

I for one, care nothing for class racing. By its nature, class racing is more expensive. Plus, I just don't like reading through a bunch of pages of rules dictating how I have to build my car, and what parts I have to use. That is a major turn off for me. A racing venue that can include everyone, is easy to enter with little RULES involved, and create competitive racing for everyone will be the best chance to increase interest in a race track event. Especially in these times.

I couldn't Agree with you more!!!

Razor, I total 100% understand where you are coming from.

 

[Alky V6]

Let’s say the GS Nat’s started opening the event to all Brand-X and with in several years the event looked more like an import tuner convention. The vendor that specializes exclusively to Buick parts is going to be happy that all these folks are walking by his both not putting money in his pocket. You & I both know that it’s a financial decision for them as weather they go or not….



I couldn't Agree with you more!!!

Razor, I total 100% understand where you are coming from.

Do you really think a bunch of imports are going to take over an event heavily marketed as a BUICK event? Of the local car club events that encourage other participants, I have not seen that be a problem at all. They are very happy to see the participation by others. It helps immensely with marketing the event for the following year. I've personally witnessed it year after year.

 

[Sydwyndr]

Do you really think a bunch of imports are going to take over an event heavily marketed as a BUICK event? Of the local car club events that encourage other participants, I have not seen that be a problem at all.

Neither have I. Like worrying about the local guys coming and dominating the index classes and bracket racing...

A good BOP/GMC event would be an idea to look into. Generate more interest and make more money for the vendors as well as lessen the cost of the track rental.

Bottom line is until people get back to work and economy/gas prices start to improve nothing is going to change.... PERIOD!!!

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

Neither have I. Like worrying about the local guys coming and dominating the index classes and bracket racing...

A good BOP/GMC event would be an idea to look into. Generate more interest and make more money for the vendors as well as lessen the cost of the track rental.

Bottom line is until people get back to work and economy/gas prices start to improve nothing is going to change.... PERIOD!!!

Agreed

 

[SGRIM]

Bottom line is until people get back to work and economy/gas prices start to improve nothing is going to change.... PERIOD!!!

Yep!

 

[Alky V6]

Don't discount the fact that an import enthusiast can become a BUICK enthusiast.
My son is a very good example. Growing up he was stuck on the import craze. I couldn't talk him out of it. He even still has a Honda. As he grew up and watched what I was doing with my car, he began playing around with a WE4 we have in the family. Now, he has very little interest in his import and has spent a lot of money with popular BUICK specific vendors to upgrade the WE4, which he now has taken possession of.
A quote from another import enthusiast that has seen one of my youtube videos, "Im a honda guy myself. But this set-up is sick! Nice work." Maybe this guy will eventually upgrade to a BUICK? You can never tell.
I've had other import fellas bringing their car up to the track, come by my pit spot and obviously display appreciation for the BUICK turbo car.

 

[Alky V6]

How the event is run and marketed will have much to do on how well it can weather bad times. An event that is well run and well marketed will keep enough interest to be successful, even through bad times.

Strangely, one of the most popular events for the local BUICK crowd in my area is a track rental that is sponsored by a late model LS Camaro crowd. It's an annual event. It is well run, and most importantly, it is well marketed.
Every year I get numberous emails updating me on the upcoming event, encouraging my participation. To me, that is key. Proper marketing.

Over the years, I can only recall recently recieving one email alerting me of a major upcoming BUICK related event. Unfortunately, that email only asked for my money participation in an event being held on the east coast. From a marketing stand point, it did nothing to peak my interest in participating. Above all else, I'm a racer, first and foremost. Tell me you'd like to see me bring the car to the event and run it for people. Don't dig into my pocket first.
The people that run these BUICK events need to learn some people skills.

 

[Alky V6]

Strange fact is, I get much more encouragement to show my car at non-BUICK events than I get from people in the BUICK community putting together a BUICK related thing. Why would you suppose that is? One thing is for sure, no matter what their favorite manufacturer is, they like to check out the BUICK Turbo Car. People putting together these BUICK events need to keep that in mind.

 

[mario65]

I dont think its the events as much as people are really tight with their money now. I almost daily drive my Regal and I all I get are people drooling and shooting pictures at gas stations and tons of stupid questions. I dont mind the attention but I haven't got a street race in months. I am not racing a civic or its competition, I mean a real race. I am sure I could go to where they all congregate but thats not me. Id rather just get the unexpected fast car pull up next to me or try to screw with me. The cars aren't even on the streets anymore. I miss it.

The cops think you should be treated like a DUI if you get caught so its risky like never before also.

JAX lost its track years ago to the expansion in 2006 and then the economy died and the city as big as it is doesnt have a track. I have to drive 1.5 to 2 hours for a track. I have never taken the regal to a track.



We are a bunch of old farts lets face it.

 

[gn4u2c]

I think from talking to people local anyway they have 2 real answers...
1.) People tell me its no use to go out and race as the big money guys take away the fun....I say just show up and see what you can do and have fun.. don't race them race yourself, Just try to do better than your last outing and let the chips fall where they may. That's what has worked for me. If your racing a Buick to make money and pay your bills.... Oh lord do I feel sorry for you.

2.) People just don't know what the in's and out's are. There not sure if there car is up to specs, What class they can or cannot race in, If they can't make every event are they even allowed in.... Its really quite simple If you don't know ask.. That's how 99% of us learn lol... Take your car to the track on test and tune or bracket days and start talking to the track officials and other racers, get the book have a read.


If your tight on money back the wick down a little and run safe. Work on reaction, shift points and so on you can still have fun without blowing your sheet up every time out.

 

[Alky V6]

I think from talking to people local anyway they have 2 real answers...
1.) People tell me its no use to go out and race as the big money guys take away the fun....I say just show up and see what you can do and have fun.. don't race them race yourself, Just try to do better than your last outing and let the chips fall where they may. That's what has worked for me. If your racing a Buick to make money and pay your bills.... Oh lord do I feel sorry for you.

2.) People just don't know what the in's and out's are. There not sure if there car is up to specs, What class they can or cannot race in, If they can't make every event are they even allowed in.... Its really quite simple If you don't know ask.. That's how 99% of us learn lol... Take your car to the track on test and tune or bracket days and start talking to the track officials and other racers, get the book have a read.


If your tight on money back the wick down a little and run safe. Work on reaction, shift points and so on you can still have fun without blowing your sheet up every time out.

Like I have been trying to say.
1) You have to make the racing fairer for everyone.
2) Can the rules and use a simpler racing format. There are a lot of other people besides just me that hate reading rules.

BTW, I like the wife's quote (#171). Classic.

 

[Alky V6]

I have a pretty basic question.
Who are the originators, promoters, and/or sponsors for each of the different classes in the Racing Rules and Discussions section of this site? Basically, who are the driving forces behind each of these classes?
TSM
TSO
TSA
THS
TSL
TSR

Here's a chance for a person to promote their favorite class.

 

[Mike Licht]

From a vendor perspecive I can honestly say that race car count does little to nothing to bring us to an event. Most racers have already bought their parts, they are not bringing money to bring a load of new parts home. Spectators on the other hand do. That is what you need to bring vendors. In the peak days of the Nats we would bring 6 people and a trailer full of parts and spend the week selling everything we had. At the reduced "show prices" we did not make a huge profit but we could at least cover our cost of goods, payroll, travel costs, hotels and food Not to mentin the over $1000 I had to pay the GS club for space and tickets. The last Nats I went to we had our usual set up and put on the tech session at the Holiday Inn. My costs for the week incuding raffel prizes and everything were over $15,000. To do something on that level would require we do about $65,000 to $75,000 in sales just to break even. At todays events that simply is not going to happen. It would be very hard to justify closing for a week or even 4 days to go to am even to lose money and lose the money we would have made at home. It is not that I do not want to go and support events or customers I just cannot make the numbers work at that level. Participation and spectators are the key, I would like to see a Buicks vs. the world where others makes can come to a Buick event and take their shot at a turbo (or V8) car, break it up in some index classes so you dont have a 12 sec car against a 9 sec car and have some fun. I don't know for sure what the answer is but I do know if things don't change this deal is going to die.

 

[gn4u2c]

Yeah one of the keys we need to exploit to keep it going is the NEW vs OLD type race days.

Buicks vs Mustang days, or VS new Camaro days. Or even I dare say VS import day.. Opens the door for much greater participation and the chance to draw some of those guys with money over to the dark side..:biggrin:

And you need a index. That means your stock 87 GN that runs 14.0 can run against a v6 camaro that runs 14.0 and your not running a guy who has a procharged ls9 running 9.9o's save that for the stage guys

Its just as much fun running a 14.0 and beating the car your racing by .02 as it is running 9.50 and beating the other guy by .02

 

[Alky V6]

I'm wondering if it isn't already too late to try to invite people outside the BUICK community to a mixed event. When you display this pompous attitude that you don't need others coming to your event year after year, eventually that display of 'Holier than Thou' is going to bite you in the rearend. Nobody's going to want to come regardless of what is offered at the event. Those other people have already picked a 'nicer and friendlier' event to frequent for the year.

 

[Alky V6]

I have to say that I feel that all these BUICK turbo specific classes have really done a complete disservice by ostracizing the BUICK community from the rest of the racing community. It's going to be tough trying to mix in again.