Just testing the waters. What kindof ignition r u guys running in ur low 10sec high 9sec street driving TR. Just finishing up on the restoration and I've herd alot about the waste spark power loss. Don't really want to go to a distributor setup since I will be running A/C. RJC was talking about developing a mega coil that would eliminate the waste spark but that fell through (not enough demand). So what r we to do suck it up and run the 20+ year old technology on the type1 or type2 ignition systems? I would really appreciate some feedback on this since I am new at this. Go easy on me I a big block guy. My buildup is in my description at the bottom. Estimating to make around 700+hp. Thanx to all that reply
Best ignition setup to run
- Thread starter buizila
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DailyDrifter
The Slow and the Curious
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
The best ignition system is COP. But guys still run fast on the stock type coils.
Electromotive. Strongest ignition power in the industry and the most stable ignition event timing. No need for separate ignition power booster boxes. I run pure alcohol up to 7800 rpm and it fires great. I also inject nitrous. Ignition missing is not a problem.
What's COP?
RmvBfrFlght
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
COP is Coil On Plug. Basically a molded cartridge with the coil and spark plug clip all together. Sometimes seen on the 4-bangers with dual overhead cams. The coil bulge up top with a neck to reach the plug. The cartridge fits down into the valve cover and reaches the plug.
CNP is what the LS1/LS2 motors use. Which is Coil Near Plug. In this case there is a coil per cylinder mounted near the associated spark plug. Longer dwell times are possible along with less energy loss from the short plug wires.
RemoveBeforeFlight
CNP is what the LS1/LS2 motors use. Which is Coil Near Plug. In this case there is a coil per cylinder mounted near the associated spark plug. Longer dwell times are possible along with less energy loss from the short plug wires.
RemoveBeforeFlight
I second this one. Will kick the pants of COP.
This is electromotive's site. Very lack luster, but don't let that fool you. It is the most powerful and accurate ignition system on the market. Other systems can only wish.
Electromotive, Inc. patented Direct Ignition and Total Engine Control
This is a forum for electromotive owners.
Electromotive Group :: Index
Electromotive uses some terms in their manuals that tends to confuse some people that are new to stand alone ECMs. Once you understand the terms, it's a piece of cake. No different really than any other system to setup.
At their site you can download the manuals for the different systems they offer and study them.
I've used their TECII, TECIII and TEC3r systems for almost a decade now. If you have any questions, I am available. I'm sure Lonnie would help out too. He's using the new TEC GT. I'm jealous. :frown:
The GT is one awesome unit. Timing with any of the electromotive stuff is dead nuts accurate. The Gt has many options Like Motec M600 & M800.
The only way to come close to electromotive ignition is to use a Accel ICM and a 60-2 tooth trigger wheel then use COP then you are real close the electromotive but not quite there. The neat part about the ICM is it can be used with the Gen7 or XFI.
MajorBoost
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
price
What does a system like this generally cost i mean low end/ high end?
What does a system like this generally cost i mean low end/ high end?
You'll need to ask an Electromotive dealer.
THE WRAITH
Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2008
Is it possible to run a 2-step with a coil pack with out firing two cylinders at a time? I am not an informative source, but I have been told that 2-step on a coil pack using XFI will beat on the motor. Apparently, firing two cylinders and beating the bottom end up.
OK, lets see some detailed info... You guys are alot more knowledgable than I.
Ok where to start. First off yes you can have smooth 2 step and rev limiting with waste spark. Before we move on to the Electromotive lets address the XFI/Gen7/BS3 and the C3I system. The only reason you can not directly rev limit and 2 step with engine management and the stock C3I is the C3I itself. The engine management communicates with the c3I but the C3I operates independent Its reads cam and crank and sends the signal back to the ECU. Want to test this just remove the ECU and crank the engine over you will see that you still have spark. The module finds number 1 with cam and then starts the firing order. The ECU does nothing. The ECU then sends signal threw the EST for timing changes. Thats all the ECU does. When the ECU cancels EST signal to drop a cylinder to start rev limiting the C3I looses cam sync and will get out of time. The C3I sends back faulty info to the ECU and the ECU uses that info and continues to rev limit. The ECU has no idea the C3I is out of time. The longer you rev limit this way the further out of time the system goes. This can cause engine damage. XFI/Gen7/BS3 is not the problem the C3I is. There is more detail here but you get the point
The MSD DIS4 cuts coils direct and and does not use the module or EST to do it. The module continues to operate the DIS cuts the coils direct there for you have smooth rev limit and 2 step.
In the case of a distributor. The after market ECU gets all the info Direct from cam sensor and crank sensor. It has total control as it also triggers the ignition to fire and can accurately cut ignition to rev limit smoothly.
Electromotive uses smart coils. The coil drivers (ignition system so to speak) are built into the ECU. When the ECU rev limits it will first start to pull timing then drop voltage down and then cut coil to the cylinder being fired. This happens in a 50 rpm window. Since the Electromotive senses coil output it can make the needed corrections. Keep in mind the Electromotive references timing and makes corrections 120 times in 720deg of rotation. The Gen7 and XFI make 1 correction every 720deg. This is based on the fact that the Electromotive uses a 60 tooth trigger wheel. More resolution more accurate timing. The electromotive can increase the ignition output based on demand. There is NO CDI Ignition that can do this. Ever put a timing light on the CDI with a 3 window crank trigger. Wonder why that timing mark bounces all over 3-5 degrees sometimes more? Try that with the Electromotive and the timing will be rock steady like an old mechanical distributor. There is nothing wrong with waste spark as a matter of fact there are advantages over COP. The C3I is just out dated waste spark and not up to the task. Best I can explain it.
THE WRAITH
Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2008
So if you wanted to go to a 2-step without beating on the bottom end of the motor or going to a distributor, can you do it and what is the best option?
This will be using the FAST XFI system.
This will be using the FAST XFI system.
Use The Accel ICM with COP with your XFI. Its a little different using A Gen7 part with the XFI but it will work perfectly.
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