i have enough expierance, plus i work right next to a tech with 20 years expierance and the car is not a basket case it has 30 k on it and has been in the family
750hp recipe
- Thread starter Turbo_WE4
- Start date
I run 120mph and low 11s with just 450rwhp which is reliably under what stock internals can take with a good tune. It's mega fun on the street. I'm building another motor now though and shooting for 600rwhp max on a 109 block and hoping for similar reliability. I think 750 may be more than you really need, and with it, a full weight Buick should run 9s with even less power than 750rwhp. Just a thought.
BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2002
turbo we4 - Do you want to run E85 or gasoline?
I would strongly suggest a nice forged crank, since you mentioned wanting to use a stock crank. You certainly could, but it's asking a lot of that crank.
The turbocharger should be rated to do what you want, and not any more or at least not much more than that. Don't go too big or it will be a turd.
The torque converter must be a top shelf unit with excellent coupling capability. PTC is what is spoken around here. They make the best. Avoid any sloppy converters.
I would strongly suggest a nice forged crank, since you mentioned wanting to use a stock crank. You certainly could, but it's asking a lot of that crank.
The turbocharger should be rated to do what you want, and not any more or at least not much more than that. Don't go too big or it will be a turd.
The torque converter must be a top shelf unit with excellent coupling capability. PTC is what is spoken around here. They make the best. Avoid any sloppy converters.
What most of the guys are getting at is that the design wasn't intended to have that much HP. The stock crank will flex, the block will flex, the mains will try and move or crack, and the webbing will crack when all this happens. Even if you don't decide to go with an aftermarket/performance block you do need to go with a forged crank and aftermarket rods if you want it to live longer than the first WOT run.
Also at the 750 HP level you'll need to get a better drivshaft, 30 spline axles, and a new posi to go with it. Now let's talk suspension here. Boxed rear arms will be needed as well as a complete suspension overhaul if you plan on the car to do more than spin or break something else.
None of us are being mean here but at the 750 HP level you can't just throw the engine in, tune it, and expect things not to break, so you've got to upgrade everything, not just the engine.
Also at the 750 HP level you'll need to get a better drivshaft, 30 spline axles, and a new posi to go with it. Now let's talk suspension here. Boxed rear arms will be needed as well as a complete suspension overhaul if you plan on the car to do more than spin or break something else.None of us are being mean here but at the 750 HP level you can't just throw the engine in, tune it, and expect things not to break, so you've got to upgrade everything, not just the engine.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
What most of the guys are getting at is that the design wasn't intended to have that much HP. The stock crank will flex, the block will flex, the mains will try and move or crack, and the webbing will crack when all this happens. Even if you don't decide to go with an aftermarket/performance block you do need to go with a forged crank and aftermarket rods if you want it to live longer than the first WOT run.
None of us are being mean here but at the 750 HP level you can't just throw the engine in, tune it, and expect things not to break, so you've got to upgrade everything, not just the engine.
And then there's the cost of saftey equipment the drag strip will require for any pass after your first 10.**......... I can't get anywhere near a 10.99 at my local tracks with out a bar, balancer, loop (which I have) and trans blanket because the car is too fast.
If your goal is a 10's capable car, your in luck.
I'm certain I would be lying if I said my car was 750HP, but deep, deep 10's with my Lou Czarnota built 109 are not a problem. Lou built me a pretty nice car, period. He is an incredibly gifted TR builder.
I've also asked you to listen to Nick Micale. Another great builder and mentor.
Bison and Charlie F are also extremely realiable guys when looking for advice and/or hands on building.
You have an abundance of knowledgeable guys here to help you!
Another poster said read, read, read.... he was correct.
As a side note, you won't reach 750HP on your own, even with all the knowledge, advice and tech on this board , not by yourself or with the help of your freinds.
If you really want to go there REALIABLY, enlist the help a pro.
When I bought my TR, I told my builder what I wanted and he worked with my budget and "bang for the buck" in mind.
I got what I paid for
A trans shop that can build a budget 1000 HP 2004R would be a God Send to this community, PLEASE tell us who he is!!!!
Perhaps you should look at the ET and MPH goal and go from there.
I can assure you, not many real street cars in Arizona would even stand a chance on any city steet or 1/4 mile track or 1/2 mile blast on a freeway against my car, but I'm biased.....
I surpassed your 10K mark by quite a bit, but I can say "bring it" to any real street car in the state with few worries.
Perhaps you should reconsider and set your goal to that which you really want to achieve on the street and strip instead of an arbitrary HP goal.
Good luck to you, sir!
ttypewhite
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2001
10k will not yield 750hp. That won't even properly build just the engine. Then you need a turbo, intercooler, injectors, tranny, converter, fuel system, suspension and engine management. I wouldn't invest all that money into a production block. Have you ever been in a 750hp GN? This question is not meant to belittle you. I know a lot of people mention hp numbers but really would be happy with a lot less. When I hear hp numbers I think rear wheel because its what the car makes. Flywheel numbers sound good but, but are irrelevant. The reason I ask you if you have been in a 750hp GN is because that's a mid to low 9sec car which is incredibly fast for a street car. 640hp will get you a high 9sec timeslip if the stars line up. What et would make you happy when its turned up? Then base your goals off of that. Just my opinion.
Pronto
Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2002
It takes the average owner about 3 years to get enough knowlege to run the car consistantly and fast. Many members here are full time mechanics and they still get there butts kicked by the silly little 6s. There are usually two types of newbies, ones that fire the parts cannon and want to run a big number instantly then blow up in a month or the ones willing to learn and take their time. Lots of experienced people here that run big numbers. Didn't happen over night and cost a bundle of money and time. Find a local mentor that can help you along if you can. It's easy to throw money at these cars and not get the results you want. Each time you raise the hp level of your car it will find the weak link for you so be prepared. I'd try getting it to run as well as you can with what you got then work with bolt-ons to run in the low 12s. From there you can make a plan to go faster.
Pittsburghkid
Displacement Replacement.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
I just happen to be the third type. The kid who gets the car turns up the boost and blows the head gaskets. So with the down time on the car I was lucky enough to have some friends help me, and used the plethora of resources here to find my path and learn what steps to take to get where I want to go. I learned my lesson but luckily it was a lot cheaper of a lesson than you're going to learn if you don't listen to the people that say as soon as you reach your HP goal and turn up the boost to make it with a stock block than it could be the first time or the 20th time but you will end with a catastrophic engine failure.
If you want 750hp for 10k go get a junkyard LS long block. Port the heads, upgrade the fuel system, tranny, rear end and suspension. Strap a turbo capable of the power you want on there and you're done.
thank you for all the imput, well i do want to say this i had a professer in college that was on the GN project and i had talked many hours to him about my build and he saw no problem in it, this is all he did for 4 years, they used stock block, crank and rods till 550hp and upgraded rods as they failed after dozens of passes this is not going to be a stricitly strip car i just wan tthe capabilites of this power.
If you are not going to seriously race it, I don't think you need anywhere near 750 hp on the street and all the associated problems. You can kill just about aything on the street with a 500-550 build. Check out Meanchickens build. Before he went to a stroker, his and my setup were almost identical. VERY fast and livable and I have LOTS of room to go. One major issue to consider is TRACTION. It is very hard to get enough rubber under these cars to hold large power levels without notching the frame. I'd love to do that and run 325's but don't want to alter my frame.
LOTS to consider but you really don't need that kind or power. (notice I said NEED not WANT) HA HA
LOTS to consider but you really don't need that kind or power. (notice I said NEED not WANT) HA HA
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
One question.
Why do you want to modify a 30K mile stock GN? Seems to me it would be worth more as it sits.
You could save 5k more, buy a pretty fast TR or other car with that 15k AND have a nice, stock, low mile GN to show off.
Just a thought.
Why do you want to modify a 30K mile stock GN? Seems to me it would be worth more as it sits.
You could save 5k more, buy a pretty fast TR or other car with that 15k AND have a nice, stock, low mile GN to show off.
Just a thought.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Looks like this is fast evolving into a "ya, but".......thread.
Looks like this is fast evolving into a "ya, but".......thread.
You can always count on Chuck for funny quotes.....
This thread is good and I have read many like it on this board.........I wish I had known about this board when I first started playing with these cars (if it was around then???) It would have saved me a lot of money and head ache!
Like the OP and many many other members on this board I am a gear head and a certified tech work in dealers and independent shops but I have learned that it just gives you a base of knowledge.......I have built other hot rods mostly old sh8t big inch Pontiac and Chevrolet small/big block but I have never had my ass whooped like this car has done meThere are people who"say" it can be done and then people who actually "do it"..... the people posting on this thread have done it and no matter how much you know or think you know you will always learn more especially when pushing these cars so far past what they were intended for in power output.
Just my .02..........listen to the known high hp guys on this board they have been there and done that lots and can really help you, I would throw away what people around you "say" can be done......unless they have the car sitting in their shop as proof.
Best of luck to you sir
It's important to designate if you are talking about hp at the wheels or the flywheel. My impression is that you're talking about flywheel and it's obvious others are thinking you're talking about wheels. Which is it?
Best advice all threa inho.One question.
Why do you want to modify a 30K mile stock GN? Seems to me it would be worth more as it sits.
You could save 5k more, buy a pretty fast TR or other car with that 15k AND have a nice, stock, low mile GN to show off.
Just a thought.
84AireCaliente
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2012
I would spend that $$ on 6265 turbo, 60# injectors, pump/wire kit, alky, converter, tuning, tire package. Use the rest $$ to take your girlfriend out for a steak diner
