Weatherby vs. Winchester

M

mtbraun

Member
Joined
May 20, 2010
I'm looking for a 300 mag and am down to choosing between the Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather vs. the Weatherby Vanguard Series II Stainless. According to the mfg. website the two guns have very similar specs, even "guaranteeing" sub MOA shooting, whatever that matters. the only difference is that the Win has 26" barrel and Weatherby 24". I would prefer 26" for the 300 mag but would go with the 24" for the right price.

What I cannot figure out is what is driving the large price differential in suggested retail price. The sugg. retail of the Winchester is almost $500 more than the Weatherby. I realize all the gun mfg. now adays have various degrees of quality and respective price points. But for two guns that are comparable in specs, I would assume the Weatherby would cost more.

Anybody have the Weatherby? How does it shoot and are you satisfied? I've shot the Winchester and know how it performs.
 
Weatherby is nice but you are looking at the low end gun. Both will get the job done. The winchester has much more history behind it... I'd say personal prefernce... The 70 action is time tested and true... The winchester will hold better resale value out of the two... I bought my son the same Weatherby in 22-250 and it is nice. A little heavier than I would like and kicks fairly good for that caliber.... For $500 difference though you could almost by 2 Weatherby's though...
 
This is a tough choice. I've always had Winchester Model 70s, and the new Model 70 is much better than the Classic Model 70 of 5 years ago. And also with the claw extractor you never have to worry about feeding or ejection. It's just tough to swallow that big of a price difference!

I sort of assumed that the Weatherby was at a price point below the Win, but I can't figure out what part of the Weatherby is "cheaper." Is it the barrel and action? Even though the 70 has the B&C stock I sort of see that as a push for what I'm using it for (hopefully smoking an elk).

Hijacking my own thread, I've also had good luck with the new Savages. I bought a .243 in SS/Synth for my boys and it is probably the best shooting hunting rifle I have after my Model 70 .270. The thing just plain and simple shoots! But there is that negative historical aura about Savages that drives me crazy.
 
I would agree with SGRIM and go with the Winchester. The lower end Weatherbys are made in Japan these days. The older Weatherbys are fantastic guns btw, but the newer ones are just riding on the good name of the past. There is something to be said about the price difference and you get what you pay for, more dependable/durable action, higher quality barrel, fit and finish.

Just to throw out some rifles that often get overlooked in the price points you are looking between would be Tikka T3 or a Sako. Tikka being the cheaper brother of Sako (im pretty sure they are owned by the same company). They also come with a MOA guarantee. Not to hijack your thread, just throwing out a rifle you might not be that familiar with that has the characteristics you are looking for (ss barrel and synthetic stock).

I doubt you will be disappointed in whatever gun you get. All of my rifle are capable of shooting better than I am capable of. I would say that is the case for most shooters. I have only shot the older Weatherbys and would say that they sweet shooters. But I was told by people who have bought grand kids these rifles and they say they are not what they used to be. Take the last bit of what I said with a grain of salt, doesn't mean anything other than hearsay.
 
FWIW, MOA (Minute of Angle) which implies that the gun will shoot a 3, 5, or 10 shot group and the center to center distance of the farthest 2 bullets will shoot within a minute of an angle, which at 100 yards subtends about 1.017 of an inch, or there about. So either one of those rifles on a bench rest or in a rifle rest should place a 3, 5, or 10 shot group slightly under the diameter of a quarter dollar. I am sure that Wikipedia will have a better, more understandable definition. I would probably go with the Winchester or a Remington 700.
 
My Dad has a .300 Weatherby... I put more rounds through it than he has yet to date "zeroing it in" (hehehe) It's a NICE gun!!! Smooth trigger, clean break, and SPOT ON!!

I would not Hesitate to buy one over a Winchester at that price difference. Take the extra money, buy one HELL of a scope, and never look back.
 
Madcat455 said:
My Dad has a .300 Weatherby... I put more rounds through it than he has yet to date "zeroing it in" (hehehe) It's a NICE gun!!! Smooth trigger, clean break, and SPOT ON!!

I would not Hesitate to buy one over a Winchester at that price difference. Take the extra money, buy one HELL of a scope, and never look back.
Click to expand...

Is it the Weatherby model referenced in the OP or another model like the Mark V? Just curious. I have a few Zeiss scopes collecting dust right now in sore need of mounting on a good rifle!
 
Your compairing a low end Weatherby Vangard to a higher end Winchester . Look at the Weatherby Mark V for a more even comparison . Also I had a Weatherby Vangaurd in 270 win. when the Vangauds first came out and it was a tack driver. The main difference from the Mark V was the action , the Vangaurd was built on a standard 2 lug mauser style action which made it cheaper to make than the 9 lug Mark V action. I don't think you could go wrong with any of major manufacturers of rifes , Remington ,Winchester, Savage, Browning, Weatherby, and so on. As for Savage rifles check out my thread "one shot one kill" that was done with a Savage.:D Sam
 
mtbraun said:
Is it the Weatherby model referenced in the OP or another model like the Mark V? Just curious. I have a few Zeiss scopes collecting dust right now in sore need of mounting on a good rifle!
Click to expand...

I don't honestly know, I'll call him later tonight to ask what type it is. If I remember correctly, I think he got it at Wallyworld for about $400 back in '05. Had no Issues with it yet to date.

I how you feel with the scope.. I have a nicer Barska sitting. I mounted it to my Mosin 91/30, but that's just not enough rifle for that scope :p
 
The OP stated that it was a Weatherby Vangaurd which is their "cheaper" model gun . The Vangaurd has a 2 lug 90* bolt lift mauser style action. The Mark V action is a proprietary to Weatherby . It has 9 locking lugs with 56* bolt lift and more $$$$.
 
The Mark V action is a copy of the Newton action from in the 1930's. Good action overall and whether it's the cheap Weatherby or the expensive one they're good guns. The Winchester with the claw extractor will load and remove the case with out any problems. Any of them are good and if you were closer I'd sell you my Mauser custom I built several years ago in .300 win mag. Lapped, trued, and tuned with a fully bedded Bell and Carlson stock on it.:D Barrel looks lighter than it is and has a reversed target crown on it as well as hammer forged.:cool: DSCN0001.JPGDSCN0002.JPG
 
dynoman said:
The OP stated that it was a Weatherby Vangaurd which is their "cheaper" model gun . The Vangaurd has a 2 lug 90* bolt lift mauser style action. The Mark V action is a proprietary to Weatherby . It has 9 locking lugs with 56* bolt lift and more $$$$.
Click to expand...

that's what I needed to know (2 vs. 9 lug) and probably explains most of the price difference. I'm gonna see what my local guy can get the Model 70 for and compare prices. My father bought the Model 70 in 300 Win. a few months ago. It shoots beautifully and recoil is suprisingly manageable. If I end up going with the Win. I'm thinking of working up two different loads a 165 and a 180.
 
To put it in simple terms, most of the bolt action rifles have the 2 front lug bolt in them for more than one reason. This design was created in 1888 by the Mauser brothers and has proven not only strong but very accurate. The Remington rifle that's used by our troops for sniper duty is of the same design as the Mauser 89/91 design. The 98 Mauser design has been used for over 100 years and is still in use in several countries for various duties. You really can't go wrong with a 2 lug bolt for what you want out of a rifle.

The multi lug bolt was originally designed by Charles Newton in 1914 and put in production at the same time. It's known for it's smooth action and less movement to open the rifle up. Much fancier design and if you hunt in bad situations it will give you more problems since the parts aren't as easily to get. Weatherbys are a quality product but keep in mind that if something happens to it you will spend more on an actual Weatherby cartridge and repairs for it.
 
Well I got a price on both the Winchester and Weatherby. I was not surprised to see the Winchester at a grand, but frankly amazed the Weatherby came in under $600. Despite my loyalty to Winchester this might be enough to sway me. What I'm wondering is if anyone has ballistics data that compares the 300 Weatherby mag cartridge shot out of a 24 vs. 26 inch barrel. IIRC, the old rule of thumb was that with these magnums you lost 50FPS for every inch of barrel length. So that said the 24 should be about 100 FPS slower than the 26 inch barrel. If that's true then this particular Weatherby would be comparable to the Winchester in 300 Win Mag, as the Weatherby is 24 and the Winchester 26. I also seem to remember the 300 Weatherby being about 150 FPS faster than the Winchester 300 Win Mag all things being equal.

I'm not concerned about 50-100 FPS for hunting purposes. It's gonna kill 'em either way. Just curious.
 
Using a muzzle velocity of 3300 fps. with a 180gr spbt bullet and a 100yd zero, at 200 yds. the point of impact is -2.2" low. With a muzzle velocity of 3100 fps. that same bullet drops -2.7". At 300 yds. the difference is about 1". I don't think you would lose 150 fps. going from a 26" to a 24" barrel and even if you did it only drops 1/2" more. Also keep in mind that 300 Weatherby ammo is alot harder to find and more expensive. Even if you reload you still have to get brass $$$$.
 
What I was getting at is that the 300 Weatherby is approximately 150 FPS faster than the 300 Win mag cartridge. You will lose some velocity in a magnum with a 24" barrel vs. a 26" barrel. If my memory serves me correctly you would lose 50 FPS for every inch of barrel length lost. This is not exact science of course. So I was thinking that if I started 150 FPS ahead (300 Weatherby) and lost 100 FPS due to shorter barrel length, the net of the Vanguard in 300 Weatherby would be about the same as the Winchester in 300 Win mag. Not a big deal, just looking for data.

Agree with your bullet drop data. My shots in my scenario will be over 300, perhaps even 400-500. I suspect the drop differential would be more substantial at those ranges (3-6"?)

Agree Weatherby ammo is really expensive, but not a huge issue for me. After this rifle is sighted in it won't shoot 50 rounds per year.
 
Kick it out to a 300 yd. zero @ 400 yds = -12.1" & @ 500yds =-34.5" for 3300fps mv. At 3100fps 300 yd zero @ 400yds = -14" & @ 500yds=-40.1". 2" & 5.5" .... still not a big difference. The problem you run into is at 500yds you are below 1000 ft/lbs even starting at 3300fps and I'm not sure that's good elk medicine.
 
Time for a .416 Barrett....... just get someone else to carry it for you.:D
 
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