TSM/TSO Payouts???

[southern boost]

Hey I promise anyone here that JASON WHITE doesn't need a dime of payout money to make any tsm race he wants and has made it to every race this year so far . The point Jason tryin to make is simple money there pay it out and could help some of the guys that do have to budget race . Their is the other point that sponsors, that don't pay directly at the race havn't seen proper thanxs for there sponsorship of the class .


I would like to say thanxs to these sponsor and this is in no way aim at any of these people. I love this class it fun and don't ever think I give a crap bout gettin payed hell I'm the slowest car in the class,but the Bottom line is the money there pay it sponsors will get there credits and would encourage more sponsors to come in when they see postive feed back.

The gas money was just an example, "pine tree posse" got money we race to for fun ,but don't charge me if no one benefits from my contributions .


Thanxs Randy Alexander

 

[DAVID S.]

Gentlemen

In the past when I was lucky enough to place in the money at a TSM event I did not receive the money from the TSM fund until the end of the year. How can you be sure all of the sponsors have paid, some may pay at the end of the season. What if a new sponsor comes on in mid season, should the people in the earlier events be paid less. To me it seems like there are too many factors that come into play to pay out after every event, plus wouldn’t it be nice to receive on fat check at the end of the year instead of a few small ones. I think over the years Scott, Lonnie and Chris have done a great job and deserve more praise and less bitching.

P.S. I’M SURE THE OLD AND NEW POTENTIAL SPONSORS ARE LINNING UP TO GET INVOLVED IN TSM AFTER READING THIS POST.

David

 

[BillyRValentine]

No longer will the TSM or TSO points admin be running the races in either Bowling Green or Reynolds. I plan to get someone in there who will pay the racers with the money/prizes collected at the end of the race PERIOD. If they choose to keep these two races in their series they are more that welcome but I cannot have someone in charge of a class as two of the GSCA's races who doesn't payout, doesn't notify me of the change in procedure then leaves the GSCA holding the bag over a change of plans that the GSCA had nothing to do with. I plan to do what I can to make this right with Jason on behalf of the GSCA but want to make it clear that we had no knowledge of this issue until Jason brought it up. As such I can assure you this won't happen again. Any money collected by RRA's for a race WILL BE PAYED OUT AT THE END OF THE RACE AS REQUIRED PERIOD. NO EXCEPTIONS. The folks that I have in mind will make sure to keep up the prize money if not increase it and make sure that folks get paid at the end of the race, not the end of the year. Anyone wanting to speak with me regarding this may do so. You can get my number from the GSCA site but be forewarned my mind is made up. This is just bad business, plain and simple.

Jim C.

 

[THE WRAITH]

Gentlmen

It sounds like we have a couple of new volunteers to run TSM. If you guys used you time to get sponsors, collect money, run the events, tally the points and payouts instead of bitching about the class just think how much better it could be! I just can’t understand why people want to complain about the best thing we have going in the Buick racing community. If people are relying on the payouts for gas to get them to and from the track they may want to rethink if they need to be going in the first place.

David

Yeah, heres a thought lets just have everyone bring a portfolio of their net worth and pay out on that.... This country was founded on guys that work from week to week and try to budget in between that.... getting my portfolio ready.......

 

[BillyRValentine]

Chris, I would like a break down on what money and prizes were collected for the GS Nats TSM race posted here for all to see or PM it to me and I will post it. Since day one I have let the racers and RRA's do their thing but to collect money for a class at an event put on by the GSCA and not payout at the end of the race is not acceptable. I generally don't meddle or micro-manage and have always trusted the RRA's to keep their word and except for this issue they all have. This makes everyone look bad and needs to be rectified ASAP. A racer (Jason), a sponsor (Cal) and now the race director (Myself) for one of the races that was not payed out (The GS Nats) are all asking for a breakdown of what money and prizes were collected for Bowling Green. I can't help or inquire about what was done at the other events but I can about ours and I want answers for these guys.

Jim C.

 

[turbobuick]

Payouts

The fact that I even have to make a post regarding my character is laughable. I can not believe the audacity of some to make accusations about the mis-use of sponsors funds, and down right calling me a thief, when they haven't the slightest clue of what they are talking about. The only real joke here is actually ME and the countless hours I've spent organizing the series and raising money for racers. Not to mention the hundreds of dollars I have spent of my personal money to get the point series going and to keep it going.

I have never had ANYTHING to do with the GSCA BG payout or any event payout for that matter. I never claimed to represent the GSCA or raise money for the GSCA. I only raise and collect money for the TSM and TSO point series which is in NO WAY associated with race event payouts which is solely the discretion of the race promoter (GSCA, BPG, Bill Wills, and the Chicagoland GSCA). I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE EVENT PAYOUT FOR TSM IN BG WAS OR IF THERE EVEN WAS ANY AT ALL.

All of the TSM and TSO sponsor info has been posted multiple times on T6P.com and on the TSM website. The TSO website has not been finished and updated and at this point may not be. Lets not forget to mention the 1500+ fliers that have been handed out and 150+ t-shirts that have been sold, on top of the countless times they have all been announced at each event. If you don't realize who is and who isn't a sponsor maybe you should pay a little better attention.

As I did in the past at the end of the year I will post all sponsor contributions and payouts in great detail. I can not pay out or post what I don't know at this time and this has been explained in GREAT detail to Mr. Hartline and Mr. White but it apparently isn't convenient for them to hear.

Mr. White was told at BPG that the racer application money was going to be paid out for the per event payout in TSM from the point series. Scott Simpson collected the racer application money and him and I where going to sit down and figure it out AFTER he returned from vacation which was this week. Mr. White couldn't wait that long and insisted on an answer and resorted to this fiasco. So now instead of Scott and I sitting down to make some phone calls to get things done we have to deal with this crap. So in the end we will just figure it out when the point series is over and pay everything out then, no real big controversy here other than the one the Mr. Hartline and Mr. White insist on spinning.

None of Mr. Hartline's sponsor money was meant for event or individual race payouts as he prefers to pay contingency on his own. The money Hartline Performance put up for TSM and TSO was SPECIFICALLY for the end of year payout.

The damage Mr. White and Mr. Hartline have caused over this mess has benefited no one and worst of all is only going to end up hurting the racers and the point series in the end. I have spoken to several sponsors and race promoters over this mess and it is absolutely ridiculous that I have had to do so. You guys have done irreparable damage that I honestly don't know if I have the the will to try and overcome and repair for next year.

Mr. Carswell you have my phone number. Any particular reason you prefer to make statements and accusations here instead of picking up the phone to call me and find out exactly what is going on? I would not have done that to you or the GSCA but I guess we don't have the same principles.

 

[III'S 87 GN]

The fact that I even have to make a post regarding my character is laughable. I can not believe the audacity of some to make accusations about the mis-use of sponsors funds, and down right calling me a thief, when they haven't the slightest clue of what they are talking about. The only real joke here is actually ME and the countless hours I've spent organizing the series and raising money for racers. Not to mention the hundreds of dollars I have spent of my personal money to get the point series going and to keep it going.

I have never had ANYTHING to do with the GSCA BG payout or any event payout for that matter. I never claimed to represent the GSCA or raise money for the GSCA. I only raise and collect money for the TSM and TSO point series which is in NO WAY associated with race event payouts which is solely the discretion of the race promoter (GSCA, BPG, Bill Wills, and the Chicagoland GSCA). I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE EVENT PAYOUT FOR TSM IN BG WAS OR IF THERE EVEN WAS ANY AT ALL.

All of the TSM and TSO sponsor info has been posted multiple times on T6P.com and on the TSM website. The TSO website has not been finished and updated and at this point may not be. Lets not forget to mention the 1500+ fliers that have been handed out and 150+ t-shirts that have been sold, on top of the countless times they have all been announced at each event. If you don't realize who is and who isn't a sponsor maybe you should pay a little better attention.

As I did in the past at the end of the year I will post all sponsor contributions and payouts in great detail. I can not pay out or post what I don't know at this time and this has been explained in GREAT detail to Mr. Hartline and Mr. White but it apparently isn't convenient for them to hear.

Mr. White was told at BPG that the racer application money was going to be paid out for the per event payout in TSM from the point series. Scott Simpson collected the racer application money and him and I where going to sit down and figure it out AFTER he returned from vacation which was this week. Mr. White couldn't wait that long and insisted on an answer and resorted to this fiasco. So now instead of Scott and I sitting down to make some phone calls to get things done we have to deal with this crap. So in the end we will just figure it out when the point series is over and pay everything out then, no real big controversy here other than the one the Mr. Hartline and Mr. White insist on spinning.

None of Mr. Hartline's sponsor money was meant for event or individual race payouts as he prefers to pay contingency on his own. The money Hartline Performance put up for TSM and TSO was SPECIFICALLY for the end of year payout.

The damage Mr. White and Mr. Hartline have caused over this mess has benefited no one and worst of all is only going to end up hurting the racers and the point series in the end. I have spoken to several sponsors and race promoters over this mess and it is absolutely ridiculous that I have had to do so. You guys have done irreparable damage that I honestly don't know if I have the the will to try and overcome and repair for next year.

Mr. Carswell you have my phone number. Any particular reason you prefer to make statements and accusations here instead of picking up the phone to call me and find out exactly what is going on? I would not have done that to you or the GSCA but I guess we don't have the same principles.

Hey Chris,
My only comment to your above novel is that you were asked several times in person and passed the buck.
The fuel that started all this was I QUOTE !!
Everything is going to be paid out at the end of the season. There are reasons for this that I will not discuss end of story.
__________________
Chris Lyons
Buick Racing Events. LLC.

I do understand the effort you put in, Scott and Lonnie also but please realize I have drove about 7 thousand miles this year to support TSM !

 

[RICHIE HIGH PSI]

.



I can not pay out or post what I don't know at this time and this has been explained in GREAT detail to Mr. Hartline and Mr. White but it apparently isn't convenient for them to hear.


Can you please clarify on this?
When someone sponsers a class or a race, dont they pay up front?
Thanks

 

[turbobuick]

Hey Chris,
My only comment to your above novel is that you were asked several times in person and passed the buck.
The fuel that started all this was I QUOTE !!
Everything is going to be paid out at the end of the season. There are reasons for this that I will not discuss end of story.
__________________
Chris Lyons
Buick Racing Events. LLC.

I do understand the effort you put in, Scott and Lonnie also but please realize I have drove about 7 thousand miles this year to support TSM !

Last time I checked I didn't start this thread

 

[turbobuick]

.



I can not pay out or post what I don't know at this time and this has been explained in GREAT detail to Mr. Hartline and Mr. White but it apparently isn't convenient for them to hear.


Can you please clarify on this?
When someone sponsers a class or a race, dont they pay up front?
Thanks

Yes, in October or November and definitely not here or in this forum.

 

[8AV8]

Last time I checked I didn't start this thread

You can check 10 more times ...and you still won't be the one that started this thread.

The guy that started it is still trying to get a straight answer.

 

[8AV8]

Yes, in October or November and definitely not here or in this forum.

 

[quickt]

Can you please clarify on this?
When someone sponsers a class or a race, dont they pay up front?
Thanks

Contingency sponsors pay toward year end and contigency per event. (that does not mean paid at the event that means figured on a per event basis.) If vendor has contingency requirements (example 2004R and A/C) They will only pay for the cars that meet those requirements and finish 1st and 2nd place. At this point in time that would have been no one. So this vendor owes nothing at this point. Why should he pay up front? We had more than $1000 in contingency that was never paid a few years ago by the vendor simply because the wining racers would not run the vendors sticker (that was only requirement to get paid). Not one racer complied with the vendors contingency requirements of running a sticker so he owed nothing. Why should he have paid up front? This is nothing new and has been this way for years in TSM. Many other races classes do this the same way. This makes it very hard to pre determine what a per event payout will even be. You might think you have $500 on the table to payout and then when the race is in the books you might have $0 which most will find out was the case at BG. The racers did not comply with the requirements for payout. Vendor owed nothing. This does not mean that Vendor did not pay. Simply contingency was not met.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

While I can appreciate someone stepping up and taking their own time to manage the class, a little less attitude would also be appreciated. All I can think of when someone says "end of discussion" is my mom saying that to me. While mom did have the power to say that to me, someone managing a race class where people spend hundreds of hours and thousands upon thousands of dollars seems a little condescending.

Not letting the racers know what the qualifying tree is, and not having the equiptment to verify rules also seems a little problematic.

 

[quickt]

and not having the equiptment to verify rules also seems a little problematic.

The simple turbo plug was not there but the Turbo rings were.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Lonnie,
I'm definately not calling you out. You've helped my brother out a lot, and been part of the TSM family as far as I'm concerned. I'm really not calling anyone out. I just want to see a smooth operation and friendly rivalry! All the TSM guys I know pull together and have a good time! Even if there is a lot of chit talking! Obviosly none of the guys are racing for money. If they were they'd be driving mustangs or fwd imports. A little gas money to get to and from the track and a little recognition for all the effort these guys put in is what they're looking for. A good attitude, organization and forthcoming information is all everyone is asking for. I can update the points on a website in about 30 seconds if someone gives me the info. I'm sure all the TSM players will chip in and help wherever they can if asked.

 

[RICHIE HIGH PSI]

Contingency sponsors pay toward year end and contigency per event. (that does not mean paid at the event that means figured on a per event basis.) If vendor has contingency requirements (example 2004R and A/C) They will only pay for the cars that meet those requirements and finish 1st and 2nd place. At this point in time that would have been no one. So this vendor owes nothing at this point. Why should he pay up front? We had more than $1000 in contingency that was never paid a few years ago by the vendor simply because the wining racers would not run the vendors sticker (that was only requirement to get paid). Not one racer complied with the vendors contingency requirements of running a sticker so he owed nothing. Why should he have paid up front? This is nothing new and has been this way for years in TSM. Many other races classes do this the same way. This makes it very hard to pre determine what a per event payout will even be. You might think you have $500 on the table to payout and then when the race is in the books you might have $0 which most will find out was the case at BG. The racers did not comply with the requirements for payout. Vendor owed nothing. This does not mean that Vendor did not pay. Simply contingency was not met.

Thanks for the clarification!!

I got nothing 2 years in a row for 2nd place in reynolds.
Did i not meet the requirements?

 

[quickt]

Thanks for the clarification!!

I got nothing 2 years in a row for 2nd place in reynolds.
Did i not meet the requirements?

No requirement needed there Richie. There has never been an event payout at the Reynolds race that I know of. I will bet there's not one this year either. That race is a test and tune they allow us to run a TSM race at. Now on the other hand if you were in the points you should have been paid. Looks like Jim has canceled that TSM race for 2008

 

[HighPSI]

Mr. Carswell you have my phone number. Any particular reason you prefer to make statements and accusations here instead of picking up the phone to call me and find out exactly what is going on? I would not have done that to you or the GSCA but I guess we don't have the same principles.

Mr Lyons or is it Dr Lyons? (I thought we were on a first name basis?) Why don't you practice what you preach? My phone number is 321-722-1563. I have kept most of this BS off the boards, but could start dragging up 3 years worth of sh!t. I'll see you in Osceola where we can discuss it Monsieur Lyons to Herr Hartline.

 

[8AV8]

The simple turbo plug was not there but the Turbo rings were.

Hypoythetically speaking...If a racer passed weight and peer tech, EVERYTHING about the race was legal. And the plug was the only thing missing....

Would a record time be a TSM legal record , or would it be considered "outlaw"?