T/A Block Question

XXQUICK6XX

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2001
I was wondering what head combination guys are running with on center T/A blocks. And what head gaskets you are running. And if I'm not being too nosy how many cubes you are pushing. I'm trying to get something together early this year. The motor I picked up is supposed to be about 267 cu". Debating on weather to run GN1r's or a set of T/A's I already have the Champion intake.

Steve
 
Either head would work. Due to cracking problems in the past, I would sway towards the TAs.

A lot of people are having good luck with Cometics. I've used them on a few customers engines now with equally good luck.

On my personal car, I've recently switched to SCE copper sheet gaskets with stainless o-rings in the heads and receiver grooves cut into the top of the sleeves. No room for error with the tuneup with this gasket arrangement though.
 
Steve, I run Cometics and TA heads but I do not run a TA block. No problems with the TA's and head gaskets yet with them being pushed further than Champions ever have. The TA's will cost a few $$ more but I think the quality is second to none and if they don't break then it's worth more in my book because of the peace of mind.
 
Mine is

TA Block & SE Heads.

260 cu in

Cometics taken apart and sprayed with Copper.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
 
Has anyone tried a fine coating of Hylomar in place of the copper coat with the Cometics?

I use the Hylomar sealer on the copper sheet gaskets and it works very well. The Hylomar sealer has some interesting properties.
 
I know on my stock block I use cometics and put nothing on them and that is with GN-1 heads on there. Onle use a tablet or two of GM coolant tabs.:D
 
That's how I prefer to install Cometics too. They're designed to not need sealer. You must follow their requirements to the letter though.
 
I think he had to finish the deck of the block to a ra finish. For the cometics.
 
For head gaskets I was thinking of using SCE ICS gaskets. S 72004

SCE Gaskets Inc.

Last time I checked on that design, they weren't supplying them for the Buick V6. Something about the bore spacing being too tight for that gasket design. Or maybe they didn't feel it was right for my application. You should check with them. Things may have changed. My inquiry on the gasket was within the last 6 mos.
 
Has anyone tried a fine coating of Hylomar in place of the copper coat with the Cometics?

I use the Hylomar sealer on the copper sheet gaskets and it works very well. The Hylomar sealer has some interesting properties.


Donnie,

I used Hylomar aerosol spray on my Cometics . seems to work fine ... no leaks. I torqued them 3 times during assembly ... 24 hours between each torque. (good advice from Cal ):)

George
 
Another good technique is to use a heat gun on the long block while it's still on the stand before you have all the valvetrain in the way. Heat the block and heads and then let them cool completely (overnight). Then do a final retorque on the heads.
 
Mine were put on dry and used no seal tabs. I have had work done in the past by other machinists and I needed to use seal tabs. It's in the machine work.
 
I have been using 1026's for years along with ARP studs without any issues. I have always sided with Kenny D and thought of the head gasket as a safety valve.
I am running TA heads (first generation). I recently pulled the engine to get the heads ported (going to get the car painted so it was a good excuse to pull the engine) and noticed the I had cracks from the spark plug holes over to the intake valves in the combustion chamber. I was told by Mike Zimmerman that he has seen this before on a few TA heads but it should not be a problem unless it gets under the seat, then they might need to be welded.
Jeff
 
This is from their site



ICS Titan Head Gaskets
S72004
$235.95
HEAD GASKETS, ICS Titan, fits Buick 231 V6 Stage 1 and 2. *Please see ICS Installation Instructions on 'Products' page to insure proper combustion chamber clearance* Gasket Thickness: .043"; Bore Opening: 4.010"; Package Contents: 1 Pair; Material: Copper with built in coolant seals and combustion seals, does not require sealant or o-rings. Patented Integral Combustion Seals found only on ICS Titan head gaskets take the place of o-rings in the block or head.

* Shipping Weight: 1.65lbs
* 1 Units in Stock
 
Yeah, I noticed that last night. That's why I suggested that you give them a call. All I know is that when I called them with my application they freaked and said that design would not work well in my case. If I recall correctly, I don't even think they were available. At least back then. They suggested going with the Pro setup. He was very confident I would not have a problem with the Pro Coppers.

If you do go Pro Coppers, I highly suggest going with the stainless o-ringing and the receiver grooves. In the copper sheet world, that is the ticket.

I met a fella at the track that was running a blown alcohol hemi in an early Chrysler car. Beautiful workmanship. I found out later that he had been around the blown alcohol scene for a long time. He had noticed my car run the day before and asked how it was going. I told him that the head gasket had gone and that I was PMing the engine. He asked what gasket I was using. I told him the Felpro Locwires. He replied that those are good to a certain power level, and then you need to upgrade. I asked him about his setup and he told me he was using copper sheet like the Pros. He was very helpful and told me that if I go with copper sheet gaskets to use the o-rings with the receiver grooves. He had tried o-rings alone and they didn't hold up. You have to use the receiver grooves also. SCE confirmed this with me. It's also recommended because of the bore spacing. Too much bunching up of material between the bores without the receiver grooves to give the displaced copper a place to go.
The bunched up copper could cause the head to not seat properly between the bores, wanting to keep the heads lifted in that area compared to the rest of the deck.

The required ra finish is less finiky with the Pro Coppers also. Hylomar sealer with the Pro Coppers is a great matchup.
 
I believe that every head gasket design has its limit. Each design is good to a certain power level for a given engine design. After installing the 91X, cylinder pressures were obviously being pushed a little further than had been with the T76. Any other teardown, the Locwires came off the engine looking like new. The teardown after running the 91X for a bit, the Locwires were beat to hell. As I pulled the gasket off the deck, the fire rings would hang away from the rest of the gasket. Not just the two cylinders where the gasket had pushed, but all the cylinders. You get enough cylinder pressure going and the heads will lift and dance around on the gasket. That dancing worked on the gasket and basically dismantled them into their basic parts.
That can't happen with a thick single sheet of copper.
After seeing what had happened to the Locwires, I was a little concerned. What am I going to do now? What could be better than these gaskets? I started to focus on MLS gaskets. Then I had that talk with the blown alky guy and I decided not to fool around and just go with the best gasket system out there. If you do enough research you will find that solid copper sheet gaskets with orings and receiver grooves are the best system. Not the most forgiving though.
 
One thing that I was curious about with the copper gaskets was, how will the copper fill the receiver groove? Will it just bow down across the groove? What will the resulting bulge of copper look like?
It's actually very cool how the system works. The receiver groove is your typical groove. A squared off groove. When you remove the copper gasket after it having been installed, you see that the copper that was pushed into the receiver groove by the o-ring has completely filled the groove. The copper forms into a squared off notch! Do you think maybe that gasket is anchored in there good? Holy cow.

My feeling on the MLS gaskets for my application was, if I'm running enough cylinder pressure to have the heads scrub the gasket, I didn't want it doing that against a very thin sheet of material. And I was worried about the heat transfer ability of those thin sheets. A thin sheet of material does not have much strength if the head starts lifting and combustion gases are working past them.
A thick single sheet of copper gasket will hold up better in the case of a head lifting and will take the heat better than a few very thin sheets of steel.
I was thinking in paricular about when I really start putting the power to this engine. I've really only just touched the start of what this turbo and engine are really capable of, and I knew cylinder pressures were only going to be escalating higher. Did I want to install the mls gaskets and find their limit, again being forced to finally upgrade to THE GASKET SYSTEM, or should I just bypass that step and bite the bullet? I decided that I had much more to worry about besides my head gaskets. It was time to go Pro Copper.

That was my logic for going with the copper over the mls in my situation. The majority of you will be fine with mls, I'm sure.
 
im running SCE ICS Titan S72064
although i have stage II block and stage II AL heads
i think as fair as sealing the cylinder camber is concerned there great, but make sure the sealing lips match the water ports ! none of mine did! steam holes and inlet and outlet to the heads!
 
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