NEW ADPP-C Champion intake power plate.

[chasmat2316]

I already know the eventual path the air is going to follow if you just leave one valve open at a time. That is not what we are measuring here. We are trying to find out what influence the overall air flow path has on each valve opening

let me elaborate a little on this.
In the beginning when we first developed this plate we had all the valves in the head and opened them one at time, we tried to keep the time we opened them exactly the same and then measure how much air came out of each cylinder. We could tell from that test that the path of the air was forcing more air out of the rear cylinders. We found that by removing all the valves it exaggerated our findings of what path the air was following. That is what we were after. By exaggerating the path to it's maximum we could now manipulate and correct the path.

So what do you think of the Champion intake in general - for a 109 build?

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Damn, there is such a difference between #2 and #5 it's scary.

Curious, does the Champion have only a 70mm TB or can you bolt on a 90mm?

 

[Race Jace]

So what do you think of the Champion intake in general - for a 109 build?

I will tell you one thing, I wish they allowed this in TSM...I would have one on my car.

I am not going to lobby for any more rule changes but i wish someone would.

This is by far the best intake for our cars with stock style heads.

It looks like the plenum is made so you can machine it so that it will accomidate a 90mmTB.

 

[spx-7]

Champion Intake with 90mmTB

It looks like the plenum is made so you can machine it so that it will accomidate a 90mmTB.

I have already machined my Champion intake for the 90mmTB.

Fits like a Glove.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Jason, has anybody melted down their motor running the Champion intake? I find it hard to believe that with the flow issues you have found that in a real car it would not cause serious problems while in use.

How/why would the Champion intake be so necessary in TSM when Kerney and others have proven the stock intake capable of 8's?

 

[Mike Licht]

Ted, I kind of see where you are going here but lets keep in mind that the numbers they way they are presented have to be taken the way they are meant. To show the potental flow difference. Not to show what the manifold does on a car. If we take them the way they are posted we could say that #2 never gets any air and does not run at all. Common sense shows us that this is not the case. Since we have pressure waves in the manifold from the valves opening and closing, and back pressure (boost), cam overlap (reversion) in a running engine the number may be very different. I for one would like to see valves in the head set at .500. (leave them all open) and see how that changes the result, I would then like to see some restriction added after the valves so that some pressure could build up in the manifold, even a little, (better have a bad ass flow bench I am not sure mine could do it) and see how that changes things, my gut tell me the results would be different. Not sure how much, but diffferent. The ultimate test is on a car, before and after with EGT logging, showing the fuel correction factor by cylinder to even them out before and after. It is apparent that Jace has spent lots of time on this so lets give him the chance to present his case. Jason, what are you using to measure the exit flow from the heads?
Mike

 

[Race Jace]

.......chance to present his case. Jason, what are you using to measure the exit flow from the heads?

Mike

am i on trial here?..... j/k

Thanks mike,

I am fixing the path of the airflow and how it affects the fill of the cylinder. With a power plate i can not fix uneven injector flow, uneven cylinder head design, uneven port work in the cylinder and uneven port work in the lower intake itself. All of these things will affect individual EGT and ratio correction factors.

If you want everything perfect, make sure each cylinder flows the exact same amount, to do this you will have to mock up the upper intake much the same as i do only draw through each cylinder with the correct bore and lift of the cam with the throttle plate open. Once you get that all identical then go to the injector. Ballance each injector to exact flow. I imagine they are going to also be affected by the g-force in the fuel rail so you will have to come up with something for that.

All of this i have explained in infinate detail countless times on this sight. If you have more questions you should go back and read some of those posts. there is a lot of good information there. If your question has not been answered by those post feel free to ask but I'm pretty sure it will be answered over and over.

 

[S2V6RACER]

am i on trial here?..... j/k



I am fixing the path of the airflow and how it affects the fill of the cylinder. With a power plate i can not fix uneven injector flow, uneven cylinder head design, uneven port work in the cylinder and uneven port work in the lower intake itself. All of these things will affect individual EGT and ratio correction factors.

So it is realistic that various combinations will see individual results using your plate, some with potential dangerous results. I would agree 100% that the plate needs to be field tested and further modifications may be needed to actually let the plate do all the work.


Has the prototype been tested on a car (yet), if so, who's car? What kind of logging equipment did they use?

 

[Race Jace]

So it is realistic that various combinations will see individual results using your plate, some with potential dangerous results. I would agree 100% that the plate needs to be field tested and further modifications may be needed to actually let the plate do all the work.

If you depict this from the above post, then you are either not reading them or simply can not understand them. No further exchange of information will be had with you. Your intentions are apparent and not about education of the power plate and the effectiveness and purpose.

And then you wonder why there is so little new product development....lol

 

[S2V6RACER]

If you depict this from the above post, then you are either not reading them or simply can not understand them. No further exchange of information will be had with you. Your intentions are apparent and not about education of the power plate and the effectiveness and purpose.

And then you wonder why there is so little new product development....lol

Jason, I know all about the effectiveness of your power plate. I HAD ONE and tested it myself. I found your information on your website contradicting to what I found in the field. Now you are making a new one and time and testing will show if you improve upon the BGC unit.



You really haven't shared much information with me and not answered many of my direct questions, and it is obvious you won't. Hopefully others will see that and believe what they will. I find it hilarious that a guy can't come in and ask questions about something you make/made and it gets turned into some big conspiracy and agenda, when thats furthest from the truth....

 

[FLYNRYAN87]

Ted A for as much as you bash the power plate are you implying that me and all the other people that bought power plate's are dumb a$$e$ for buying them?

 

[S2V6RACER]

Ted A for as much as you bash the power plate are you implying that me and all the other people that bought power plate's are dumb a$$e$ for buying them?

Don't know who you are, never mentioned you or anybody else, so lets just keep this on topic. Did you happen to get a e-mail asking you to come on this thread and post?

 

[Junior Samples]

So who out there has the set up to get some numbers? GMHightech? , if powerblock TV wasnt so busy making love to mustangs it would be nice to have it turned into a show I havent seen any numbers to contrdict anything. All Ive seen on the other related thread was a tailgate modification and some GN Guru tell someone not to use it, whats the EGT readings say?, ive checked my plugs before and after and after looks alot better, granted IM not running 9's but my idle is better and part throttle as well.

At what point does it not perform? I understand full well the concept of the plate and the problems with the back 2 cylinders leaning out. Is it a restriction? and how much of one? and what point is it one? does it keep air from jamming up against the back wall to be better distributed?..yes but?......

Come on Ted you got some serious money wrapped up, and IM sure you got friends in high places that can help out. Test it! ...your so past everyone here in ET's that it just seems to me you forgot most on this board. I dont know ya dude but you got a hell of a sig... I dont want to go 9's or even 10's i just want to be able to merge nice and quick

Maybe someone on here can market a product including 6 midgets to climb inside the plenum and direct the airflow accordingly.

 

[baadgn]

Jason, has anybody melted down their motor running the Champion intake? I find it hard to believe that with the flow issues you have found that in a real car it would not cause serious problems while in use.

How/why would the Champion intake be so necessary in TSM when Kerney and others have proven the stock intake capable of 8's?

Ted,

Who said anything about a champion intake being NECESSARY, Kerney went 8's with one. so does that mean the champion wont work better I hope you dont think that. If thats the case why did you go with a 88/47 turbo when a regular 88 was proven to 8.50s when you had only gone 9.0's to that point. We all see what your tryng to do here even Mike L see's it, this the reason the buick community is going sour keep up the good work !!!!

 

[baadgn]

So who out there has the set up to get some numbers? GMHightech? , if powerblock TV wasnt so busy making love to mustangs it would be nice to have it turned into a show I havent seen any numbers to contrdict anything. All Ive seen on the other related thread was a tailgate modification and some GN Guru tell someone not to use it, whats the EGT readings say?, ive checked my plugs before and after and after looks alot better, granted IM not running 9's but my idle is better and part throttle as well.

At what point does it not perform? I understand full well the concept of the plate and the problems with the back 2 cylinders leaning out. Is it a restriction? and how much of one? and what point is it one? does it keep air from jamming up against the back wall to be better distributed?..yes but?......

Come on Ted you got some serious money wrapped up, and IM sure you got friends in high places that can help out. Test it! ...your so past everyone here in ET's that it just seems to me you forgot most on this board. I dont know ya dude but you got a hell of a sig... I dont want to go 9's or even 10's i just want to be able to merge nice and quick

Maybe someone on here can market a product including 6 midgets to climb inside the plenum and direct the airflow accordingly.

Ted is the man!!!!


9.04 @ 152 TSL Legal
8.48 @ 162 TSO Legal with 5.480 @ 131.15 1/8th
TSO/TSL MPH and E.T. Record Holder
Top MPH 165.31 TSO legal

 

[S2V6RACER]

Ted,

Who said anything about a champion intake being NECESSARY, Kerney went 8's with one. so does that mean the champion wont work better I hope you dont think that. If thats the case why did you go with a 88/47 turbo when a regular 88 was proven to 8.50s when you had only gone 9.0's to that point. We all see what your tryng to do here even Mike L see's it, this the reason the buick community is going sour keep up the good work !!!!

The HP rating of the 88/47 turbo is more than a standard 88mm turbo. That's why I chose the unit.

I'm not trying to do anything here other than ask Jason why his PP doesn't work as he advertised on his website, and question his testing methods.

Whatever, you guys all figure it out.

I'm out.

 

[baadgn]

The HP rating of the 88/47 turbo is more than a standard 88mm turbo. That's why I chose the unit.

So it wasn't neccesary to go with the 88/47 over the standard 88 when there was still 5 tenths on the table.But you did because you wanted to go faster. Same reason someone might put a champion intake on thier car verses a stock one This my point Ted


(Whatever, you guys all figure it out.)

I have a long time ago, but never talked down to people again the community is small it does not need this crap

 

[Junior Samples]

I'm not trying to do anything here other than ask Jason why his PP doesn't work as he advertised on his website, and question his testing methods.

Whatever, you guys all figure it out.

Well why dont you help figure it out Ted? then share your findings with Jason, maybe some input if you think you can help make it better or any other product better from anybody! Or keep it a secret and design your own. Why dont you post your numbers that you gathered during field testing with it on then with it off?

You mentioned that it doesnt work as advertised yet you offer no numbers yourself, why dont you do a butt load of testing on a badd ass flow bench and come up with some findings to dispute it? come up with a product that does work?
you got big money to go fast, make somthing to sell.

Ive seen your replys stating he does make a quality product but by saying its a waste of money in your opinion well yeah you are entitled to one but just seems to me it could have been put another way like it just didnt work for you. I mean no offence by that.
For my mild build i feel the standard plate im running works..is it placebo effect? i dont know, but ive did a few wot runs and checked plugs and looked good and it idles nice what more can i ask for.

Like I said, i dont see any numbers to dispute what Jason found, The guy is working his butt off to make a living in a small market and no one can dispute that.

 

[Otto J]

My PP on a stock intake plenumed motor definetly helped curb detonation.
May be it slowed air flow a bitmBut in doing so kept the motor from detonating which definetly helps in keeping rod bearings and head gaskets
in check.
My new setup I may install the ind EGTs(pump gas/alky combo)
and see how one works with and without

 

[baadgn]

Like I said, i dont see any numbers to dispute what Jason found, The guy is working his butt off to make a living in a small market and no one can dispute that.

Exactly, very well put