Maximum Stage II Horsepower

[Alky V6]

When were these done? I know several guys at Bennett if your talking about the shop here in Alabama. Were these numbers from Bennett or from someone else flowing them?

Also. If a rod can be made to take the abuse I would think an alcohol motor with billet head without water ports would be the best way to go. You see these in the diesel tractor arena and they take a serious beating.

The billet head thing has been a dream of mine for some time. I think my son thinks I'm nuts sometimes. I had seen someone at Bonneville, three or four years ago, that had machined his own head. And top fuel use billet heads, no water. Anyone that has run alcohol knows how hard it is to get heat into the engine anyway, so why not eliminate the water passages, strengthen the head, layout the ports with no thought of being restricted by manifolding design or hood clearance, and make for a very repairable setup (no internal passages to worry about). Heat barrier coat the exhaust valve and port, but maybe that isn't really necessary. If done right and without the water passages to worry about, I would imagine a head porter would have a field day. I wonder if anyone has ever mocked up a port and chamber out of plastic or whatever and tested to see if the stage II could be improved on? Just my thinking here, I'm not a head guy, but I'll bet the current stage II port configuration is pretty much at its best with the valve sizes being the restriction. Without the room to go to any larger valves, there can't be any massive improvement in port flow. Any thoughts from head porters? Would a radically raised intake improve anything or would it just mess up the intake to exhaust flow ratio? Can the exhaust be improved to match any improvement on the intake? Or is it true the valve sizes as they are now would put the brakes on those ideas and just stick to the old port patterns? I would really love to raise the intake a little?

 

[Alky V6]

If a rod can be made to take the abuse I would think an alcohol motor with billet head without water ports would be the best way to go. You see these in the diesel tractor arena and they take a serious beating.

Sounds like someone needs to step up and make a block with a raised cam position. Imagine the possibilities!

 

[Big Stu]

The billet head thing has been a dream of mine for some time. I think my son thinks I'm nuts sometimes. I had seen someone at Bonneville, three or four years ago, that had machined his own head. And top fuel use billet heads, no water. Anyone that has run alcohol knows how hard it is to get heat into the engine anyway, so why not eliminate the water passages, strengthen the head, layout the ports with no thought of being restricted by manifolding design or hood clearance, and make for a very repairable setup (no internal passages to worry about). Heat barrier coat the exhaust valve and port, but maybe that isn't really necessary. If done right and without the water passages to worry about, I would imagine a head porter would have a field day. I wonder if anyone has ever mocked up a port and chamber out of plastic or whatever and tested to see if the stage II could be improved on? Just my thinking here, I'm not a head guy, but I'll bet the current stage II port configuration is pretty much at its best with the valve sizes being the restriction. Without the room to go to any larger valves, there can't be any massive improvement in port flow. Any thoughts from head porters? Would a radically raised intake improve anything or would it just mess up the intake to exhaust flow ratio? Can the exhaust be improved to match any improvement on the intake? Or is it true the valve sizes as they are now would put the brakes on those ideas and just stick to the old port patterns? I would really love to raise the intake a little?

I think someone well versed in cad layout and design that is specific to heads and blocks could run the numbers on a computer and test all these things. It basically boils down to how much money it is going to take to be worth his time or effort to pursue it. Buick stuff is a little different then say, a hemi or ford head where you know people will buy that stuff quick if they like what they see. I think the lack of serious interest with the buick market is what holds guys back from new development. It would be awesome for sure though to have new heads with revisions. My friend talked about making a stage style block with "y' look to it to incorporate the pan for a bulletproof bottom end. it was also mentioned to go to a crank with chrysler mains like a sonny bryant or similar for even more reliability. Maybe someday....

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Sounds like someone needs to step up and make a block with a raised cam position. Imagine the possibilities!

Can the SII heads be machined for larger vlaves than 2.125 and 1.625? Would the bore shroud any larger valve?

350/250cfm is pretty impressive. Bennett canted valve Ford heads flow about the same at .500 but with 2.18/1.65 valves. If the heads on Billy's car actually go near 370 then it's possible with a bigger valve, flow could reach 380+. I agree that the current port design from the nascar and indy days probably can't get much better. But without water passages, who knows the possibilities. New port design with bigger valves......400/270cfm at .700????

Might be interesting to fill the water jackets in a junk head and reshape the ports to see what happens. Some guys here locally have done a lot of port design for Bulldog heads. You can reshape the ports with automotive bondo and watch it's effect on flow. BTW, their port design blowed away Jon Bennett's.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Now that I'm thinking about it. If a new port layout was found to make a big difference why couldn't you just fill the jackets up on an existing head and reshape the ports to match. It would take some time but at least you wouldn't have to build a new head.

 

[Alky V6]

Now that I'm thinking about it. If a new port layout was found to make a big difference why couldn't you just fill the jackets up on an existing head and reshape the ports to match. It would take some time but at least you wouldn't have to build a new head.

My thinking was to see if a radically raised intake would help anything. I know a custom intake would be necessary, but that's really not much of a problem. You still have to keep the intake to exhaust flow ratio reasonable. I know that the exhaust ports now are much larger than the exh valve. Is the exhaust side maxed out? If so, it wouldn't make any sense to increase the intake side too much.

Does anyone have a junk head to go towards research and development? With at least one good chamber and port section. Or maybe just a cut up one of the same.

 

[Big Stu]

Now that I'm thinking about it. If a new port layout was found to make a big difference why couldn't you just fill the jackets up on an existing head and reshape the ports to match. It would take some time but at least you wouldn't have to build a new head.

I think with a billet head and no water passages, someone could do whatever they wanted to with port reshaping. Or, do your idea and take an existing junker head and have some fun with it. Who knows what could happen? It would be a lot easier then to go through a new head design, I agree completly.

 

[Alky V6]

I guess you could just take a chunk of plastic and machine out a chamber and ports. Put in some valves and presto, change-O, there you have it. Mmmm, plastic. Must have plastic.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

My thinking was to see if a radically raised intake would help anything. I know a custom intake would be necessary, but that's really not much of a problem. You still have to keep the intake to exhaust flow ratio reasonable. I know that the exhaust ports now are much larger than the exh valve. Is the exhaust side maxed out? If so, it wouldn't make any sense to increase the intake side too much.

Does anyone have a junk head to go towards research and development? With at least one good chamber and port section. Or maybe just a cut up one of the same.

All you need is one good chamber like you mentioned. You basically just go crazy hogging the port out then use bondo to create the shape you want, such as a radically raised intake. With the bondo you can do quite a bit of work with just sandpaper.

Looks like someone needs a junk head to play with. Try a larger exhaust valve and see what happens. If you can pick the exhaust up a good bit then you could get creative on the intake. You also have to remember that the valve job, degree backcut etc. also play a part in over all flow so true results can really only come from a head.

 

[Alky V6]

I need to research and see if the room is there. I'm figuring a 4" bore, so I'm not too optimistic.

 

[Mac in SD]

Does anyone have a junk head to go towards research and development? With at least one good chamber and port section. Or maybe just a cut up one of the same.

Like the one I've been using for a wheel chock?

I'll drop by today with it.

 

[Alky V6]

Hey bud, see you soon.

 

[1dmbth]

Well since the other thread on here has turned into V-6 vs V-8 war lets talk about maximum horsepower some more.

As in the TA add for the block who will be the first to 2000hp.

What will it take?

I talked to TA a few months back and they say they are going to do there own version of the Stage II head. He said they will build one that will take some boost!

 

[John Wilde]

Well since the other thread on here has turned into V-6 vs V-8 war lets talk about maximum horsepower some more.

As in the TA add for the block who will be the first to 2000hp.

What will it take?

I talked to TA a few months back and they say they are going to do there own version of the Stage II head. He said they will build one that will take some boost!

Duttweiler is building a motor for John Gallina/Len Freeman that will push the v6 performance to it's limit. I will let them post details, I probably know more than I should.

 

[1dmbth]

Awesome!!!

 

[Alky V6]

A provision should be made to allow fuel injection at the valve pocket.

 

[John Wilde]

A provision should be made to allow fuel injection at the valve pocket.

I like that idea!!!

 

[49-blues]

Whatever happened to that olds? Does he still run it?

 

[John Wilde]

It has a 290ci SBC and runs in the 6.6s.

 

[EightSecV6]

Well since the other thread on here has turned into V-6 vs V-8 war lets talk about maximum horsepower some more.

As in the TA add for the block who will be the first to 2000hp.

What will it take?

I talked to TA a few months back and they say they are going to do there own version of the Stage II head. He said they will build one that will take some boost!

2000hp wont happen on gasoline, that is for sure!