Help Needed! No 1-2 shift after my Dad installed a shifter kit.

[Kirsten's 86' Regal]

Hi all,

Let me introduce myself first, my name is Kirsten and I own a very nice white 86' Regal that has T-tops and a V-8 motor. I loved my car until my dad and his friend put a shifter kit in last Saturday from a company called Transgo.

After they put the shifter kit in my car it won't shift into second gear on it's own unless you let up the gas and then give it gas again. My dad is not a mechanic or computer friendly cause he's old school (he's very smart though) and neither is his friend. He called the company and they had him check a few things, but my car still won't shift. He adjusted the cable that runs from the transmission to the carburetor a multitude of times with the same results (even checked with the pan off)

He's standing here next to me as I type this message feeling really bad about what has happened now since I can't drive my car to work.

He says that he checked all these things thoroughly which include the servo, tv cable, check balls, valve gaskets and used all three of the springs included with the kit for the tv plunger.

One caveat he states that when he took the valve body thingy apart to put the stuff in from the kit he accidentally remove a rolled pin holding a valve thingy in that he was not suppose to do and had a real hard time getting in back into the valve body thingy.

He was told by Transgo to do a pressure tester and so he ordered a pressure tester and that should be here tomorrow or the next day, but I was hoping some of the car guys here could help us out in case he missed something the Transgo people may have forgot to ask him to check.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kirsten,

 

[SSedan64]

Which kit did you use, HD2? > http://transgoonline.com/products.p...d=166&countdisplay=2&start=0&addcountview=Yes

All 3 springs for the TV plunger?? Normally only 1 spring is used there.

 

[Kirsten's 86' Regal]

Hi SSedan,

Yes, the kit that was used was the HD2.

Also my dad didn't put all three springs in at once. He had tried the three different springs in the kit, pink, blue and red one a time with no different results for the TV plunger.

My dad thinks the problem is with the 1-2 shift bushing, spring and valve. There's a real small tight wound spring that goes between the low valve. Is this really needed and could this be the problem?

ps: That's also where he had removed a second rolled pin for the low-1st detent valve when the 1-2 shift bushing wouldn't come out. When he got every thing out he had a hard time getting the low-1st detent valve back in.

Could this also be why the car is not shifting?

Kirsten,

 

[TurboBob]

the pressure gauge will help diagnose, as all of the shift timing is controlled by how the pressure rises. The pressure rises due to the TV cable being pulled as the throttle is opened.

One common issue that happpens with first-timers is the "TV exhaust checkball and lifter". there is a safety mechanism built into the valve body in case the TV cable breaks or is disconnected.

its in the corner of the valve body and the lever the TV cable connects to pushes this pin up. the pin moves the checkball out of the way. If the checkball is installed, but the lifter/pin is not, you will get these sort of symptoms (late+hard shifts at light throttle).

Look in the instructions for the shift kit for pictures of these parts and see if your dad remembers how they are installed.

Bob

 

[TurboBob]

getting back to the symptom, once you get the car shifted into second, how are the other shift points? The shift kit should not have changed the speed at which they happen, just made the transmission shift more firmly. The shiftpoints are supposed to be higher (happen at a faster speed) when you are accelerating harder.

Once the car is in second, can you continue to accelerate and do the 3rd and 4th gear shifts both happen?

What MPH are you getting it to shift into second by letting off the gas?

(I'm trying to find out if perhaps the trans is shifting from first all the way to 3rd (skipping 2nd)

If we can find a good valve body diagram, it might be best if your dad pulls the valvebody back out of the car and goes thru the setup again. We have some pretty good trans guys on this board that can help.

Bob

 

[Kirsten's 86' Regal]

Hi guys,

Talked to my dad and he says that the tv plunger thing that looks like a paper clip with a spring is in the tiny hole correctly. He left the check ball out as the instruction stated.

Were afraid to drive the car because it might ruin the transmission, but he thinks that the car is skipping second gear and going directly in to third.

Once the car is out of first and into third the next shift is normal and then the overdrive locks like it should.

He says the shift out of first happends around 30 mph if you let up on the gas and then give it gas again.

Dad says he used a pry bar on the servo cover and applied pressure to it and the drive shaft wouldnt turn by hand.

He's leaving work early as my mom told him the mail man delivered the pressure tester thing.

Anything he should do in particular once he has the tool conected?

Kirsten,

 

[TurboBob]

I agree with the 1-3 shift being your issue.

if the other shifts feel "normal" the trans is probably ok.

I also agree that the 1-2 shift valve stuff in the valve body is most likely the problem.

Basically the little valves shift back and forth inside the valve body, controlling oil flow to the clutches and servo. if the shift valves are stuck, then the clutches/servos don't get activated.

on one end of the shift valve you have (essentially) "line pressure" which increases with your throttle opening. the other end of the valve has "governor pressure" which varies with speed. When the governor pressure exceeds the line pressure, the valve slides over and lets oil thru to the clutches/servos. (this is a simplification)

My guess is that the 1-2 shift valve stuff is assembled incorrectly or just stuck. I haven't messed with those valves in quite a while, perhaps someone else can chime in with some hints

Bob

 

[Kirsten's 86' Regal]

Hi Bob or any of the helpful members here.

My Dad just finished the pressure test thingy and here's the results.

TV Connected at 750 idle:
P=65
R=105
N=65
OD=65
D=65
S=125
F=125

TV Disconnected at 750 idle was the same as above.

TV Disconnected at 1500 RPM:
P=250
R=275
N=245
OD=245
D=245
S=210
F=210

Does anybody have a clue as to what this all means?

Thanks,

Kirsten

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

Some info from a vendor can be found here - http://www.extremeautomatics.com/techinfo.html

 

[TurboBob]

the pressures look reasonable.

the higher pressures with the TV disconnected are from the "TV Exhaust Checkball" stuff we discussed earlier, which seems to be working.

So, I am still thinking that the 1-2 shift valves are stuck.

That link has some pressure test details, but the pressures are idle, and idle with the TV cable pulled (not disconnected)

Bob

 

[Kirsten's 86' Regal]

Hi Bob,

Is there any other tests he should perform with the pressure gauge thingy still connected to the car or is that the extent of testing with that tool.

If nothing else can be performed then should he take the big pan off and take the other valve thing off, or can he check the 1-2 shift valve without removing the valve thing?

Kirsten,

 

[TurboBob]

sounds like he needs to drop the pan, and pull the valve body again.

Bob

 

[Kirsten's 86' Regal]

Thanks Bob and my Dad thanks you and the rest of the people here who took a moment to lend a helping hand.

He is out draining the transmission as we speak, but he seems kind of worried that he might have damaged the valve body thingy.
He said that when he was trying to put the low-1st detent valve bushing back in it was getting hung up when it was almost near the end of the bore and had a slight score in it.

We just hope that the slight score in the bushing isn't what's causing the problem as it seems that valve body thing is not an easy part to find.

Kirsten,

 

[TurboBob]

if there is a nick on one of the valves, you can (carefully) sand it smooth again. Be careful not to round off the edges of the "lands", since the sharp corners are necessary for the proper function of the valves.

The parts are easy to find if you know the right people. But they are not easy to find at a "store". If you identify a part you need, there are guys here that can help you with it.

Does your dad have a good picture of the order + orientation of the valves and sleeves?

Make sure everything slides properly, the forces that push the valves are not really high, so it must move smoothly.

Good luck, post back with questions or results.

Bob

 

[77 cruiser]

Did you pull the cable out to get the higher press. readings?
Is it possible it's starting in 2nd?

 

[bison]

Thanks Bob and my Dad thanks you and the rest of the people here who took a moment to lend a helping hand.

He is out draining the transmission as we speak, but he seems kind of worried that he might have damaged the valve body thingy.
He said that when he was trying to put the low-1st detent valve bushing back in it was getting hung up when it was almost near the end of the bore and had a slight score in it.

We just hope that the slight score in the bushing isn't what's causing the problem as it seems that valve body thing is not an easy part to find.

Kirsten,

What code is the valve body? Its painted on the side and will be 2 letter such as KC or KT. It also on the transmission id tag though the code on the vb is more accurate since the trans may have had parts swapped out one time prior.

 

[TurboBob]

Hey Brian, I was hoping you'd stop in. I have info, but no hard parts for reference.

Perhaps Kirsten can let us know which end of the country she's in, perhaps we can find some parts locally to her if required.

Bob

 

[Kirsten's 86' Regal]

Does your dad have a good picture of the order + orientation of the valves and sleeves?

Hi Bob,

He only has the pamphlet from what was included with the shifter kit.

He said it shows the 1-2 shift bushing, spring and valve followed by tight wound spring and the low valve.

He doesn't have a diagram of the low-1st detent valve and its orientation in the valve body thingy.

He said Transgo support talked him verbally through the orientation of its order.

The low-1st detent valve thing is held in place by the second rolled pin which was not to be removed because of its difficulty of getting it lined up and orientated properly in the valve body so the rolled pin would go back in.

Hi 77 Cruiser,

Yes, Dad pulled the cable thing outwards and when the car was at 1500 Rpm's in order to get the higher readings. He's also positive that it's starting out in first gear too.

Kirsten,

 

[Kirsten's 86' Regal]

Dad just checked on the valve thing and the transmission for part numbers.

He said that there's a yellow tag on the side of the transmission with the letters CZF and some pinkish writing on the valve thing that may read like CZ5 or 6.

Also, we live in central NJ if that helps any.

Kirsten,

 

[TurboBob]

this might help