Heads lifted and blew, pics inside!
- Thread starter WSLN 6
- Start date
toofastforyou
2FAST4U
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
This may sound like a silly question...but I always wondered if a stock block could be drilled and tapped for the missing bolts to make it a 14 bolt block?...
Claude. :redface:
Claude. :redface:
If you used alky each time it would be another thing that all failures had in common. When I blew gaskets with alky the cooling system always got pressurized and blew coolant into the overflow tank. No coolant in oil. When I blew gaskets without alky coolant always whent into the oil. Did your coolant go into the oil?
When the heads lifted, the coolant would always blow out the resevoir. (I guess I should talk to Razor about a new resevoir lid...lol) Nothing in the oil.
Never did see knock either on XFI or the Caspers pillar gauge.
I guess I could try straight race gas and no alky when spring rolls around to take it out of the equation.
Never did see knock either on XFI or the Caspers pillar gauge.
I guess I could try straight race gas and no alky when spring rolls around to take it out of the equation.
FLAME SUIT ON!! But IMHO, this whole "head lifted" thing just isn't happening.
Not at the rediculously low boost levels we run, like 30# or less. That kind of boost just isn't going to "lift" a head.
Many other factors however will contribute to these types of HG failures...
Improperly prepped surfaces.
dowel pins wrong
trying to get too fancy with HG use.
DETONATION, whether your electronics sees it or not.
I'm still convinced the stock knock sensor and associated filter circuits was/is one of the best and most reliable designs out there. Assuming the sensor is properly installed (which in most cases, it isn't).
Not at the rediculously low boost levels we run, like 30# or less. That kind of boost just isn't going to "lift" a head.
Many other factors however will contribute to these types of HG failures...
Improperly prepped surfaces.
dowel pins wrong
trying to get too fancy with HG use.
DETONATION, whether your electronics sees it or not.
I'm still convinced the stock knock sensor and associated filter circuits was/is one of the best and most reliable designs out there. Assuming the sensor is properly installed (which in most cases, it isn't).
X 10000000000000000 ..said that from the beginning
.
Is it just me or it appears to be a lot of oil in those combustion chambers. If so, that oil ignites and cuases the motor to detonate. Bad honing/rings cuases that. Unless its coming from the intake side like PCV.
Since you have an XFI. log your fuel and alky pressure. That way you know where your at.
HTH
I will be logging fuel/alky this next round for sure, double pumper,new injectors etc. The car didn't smoke and the pcv had a check valve and a catch can installed. Thanks for the discussion guys, keep it coming!
The knock sensor is 2 seasons old, OEM torqued to 14ftlbs. I will look into honing and a new set of file fit rings if needed.
The knock sensor is 2 seasons old, OEM torqued to 14ftlbs. I will look into honing and a new set of file fit rings if needed.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
If its any consolation your combo is very similar to mine. Im running a classic FAST unit though.
Im convinced that the double pumper (old ATR) setup is not helping me here. I will be going with a Reds set up and using the Nitrous feature in the FAST to activate the second pump off of the MAP sensor.
Once I tune it on a dyno I will set the alky to help out.
I blew this thing again with 15 psi and the #5 setting on the alky. It should not have blown the head gasket but it did.
The combo is stock block, forged internals,steel heads ported and polished, intake ported and polished, liquid intercooler, 66 DBB turbo, FAST and 83# injectors.
Yeah its pissing me off too.
This is too bazaare!!! I'll never understand how a HG can be pushed out at only 15# of boost. There must be something else going on there. You maybe running a crap load of timing??
I've been successful for years at running 20-21# of boost (every day) on my bone stock motor (Fel-Pro 9441 HG's) on straight 93 octane gas and NO ALKY. I keep the timing pretty reasonable.... 21 deg. in 1st and 2nd and 18 deg. in 3rd.
So, these 15# HG push outs are a riddle in deed.
I see you're running a liquid IC, have you a way of logging your manifold temps? Maybe there's something there. I've been successful at keeping mine below 120 degrees even on hot days (big V2 IC). On moderate days it's usually warmed up to around 100 deg. by the end of the pull.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Yeah Dave I think its in the timing too.
This motor has a CR of 9 to 1. It likes more fuel early in the rpm range.
The manifold temps are not anything out of ordinary the last time I checked them.
This motor has a CR of 9 to 1. It likes more fuel early in the rpm range.
The manifold temps are not anything out of ordinary the last time I checked them.
Half inch bolts on a stock block is a bad idea imo. It will distort the deck and still leave the intake side vulnerable. You can have the combustion chamber reinforced. Champion will do it fairly cheap. Id toss the head clamps too. They dont help where its needed. We need more clamping force on the intake side
BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2002
interesting thread...
I tend to agree with Dave. I've done some really really stupid things to my motor and it has come out in 1 peice, very surprisingly, and still sees through to produce 10 sec timeslips. The stock knock retard system does a pretty good job of keeping dummies like me from going really broke.
Straightness / flatness of the gasket joint is primary on my mind when I see those pics. It will be interesting to see what you find when a straight edge is layed over the surfaces. Be sure to let us know!
I tend to agree with Dave. I've done some really really stupid things to my motor and it has come out in 1 peice, very surprisingly, and still sees through to produce 10 sec timeslips. The stock knock retard system does a pretty good job of keeping dummies like me from going really broke.
Straightness / flatness of the gasket joint is primary on my mind when I see those pics. It will be interesting to see what you find when a straight edge is layed over the surfaces. Be sure to let us know!
Turbo1dr
9 Sec Wanna-Be
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
So, the front two cylinders went lean and caused detonation? Would a power plate help out in this situation? Would spraying additional fuel (in front of the throttle body) go to the rear cylinders more than the front two? Maybe a power plate could have helped.
Might want to check to see if your XFI has the knock sensor wire inserted into the correct spot on the Caspers XFI adaptor, if you have one. My adaptor was wired wrong and didn't show any detonation at all on the log files.
Have had a powerplate for years, plugs have always looked uniform, no blistering etc.
Hotwired everything, including fuel pump, injector harness, ignition module (all new Caspers harnesses) radio, back seat,tires, etc etc.
Knock has been recorded in the past and corresponded to the Caspers gauge.
AFR was solid across the board.
Hotwired everything, including fuel pump, injector harness, ignition module (all new Caspers harnesses) radio, back seat,tires, etc etc.
Knock has been recorded in the past and corresponded to the Caspers gauge.
AFR was solid across the board.
This is what I'm getting at. I never had knock with alky either. Nor have countless others. After the fourth gasket change,I gave up on alky. The last time I blew the gaskets with alky I heard that distinct popping sound as soon as the alcohol was turned on at 5 lbs. of boost. With the blown gaskets still on the motor,I turned the alcohol off,added some zylene and didn't hear any popping until 20 lbs. of boost.It was the alcohol. My first guess is that it was creating great amounts of pressure. After quitting alcohol,I didn't blow head gaskets again until the Walbro decided to give out. Water in oil. I find it very interesting that water goes into oil when you blow a gasket without alky and gets pushed out of the radiator when you blow a gasket with alky. I think this shows that the two different fuels do very different things in the combustion chamber.
I can't blame my last gasket failure on Walbro because I had too many clues to show me what was going on,the biggest of which was the fuel pressure gauge mounted on my hood and staring me in the face. I guess you're supposed to look at it.
I can't blame my other gasket failures on alcohol because others are running it succesfully. I would like to figure out why it didn't work and try it again.
The one thing I know for shure is that if you stop running alcohol and run the correct octain for your boost and run the correct air fuel ratio,you will probably never change head gaskets again.
The other way to solve your head gasket problems is to use alcohol correctly. I'm sorry to say that I don't have any insight or advice to give you to accomplish the latter.
I can and do recommend the GM gaskets or the Felpro 9441 PT.
