Heads lifted and blew, pics inside!

W

WSLN 6

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Joined
May 29, 2001
Woohoo.....lol It was a lovely August day.....
Safe tune, no knock. Heads lifted the first time at only 18psi, then about 2 weeks later after another retorque and "tuning" at higher boost levels this happened.....
Gasket pushed out on cylinders 1 and 2, and compression blowout on 1 and 6 according to the head clamps. Sent the tune to Cal, he said it looked fine. The only common part left is the block, which will be decked soon.

DriverssideGN1.jpg

Driversideheadclamp.jpg

Passengersidehead.jpg

Passengersideheadclamp.jpg
 
were you using studs? Im just curious, I lifted my heads recenty and hurt my cometics enough to warrent new ones. My tune was safe as well.
 
I'm not entirely sold on the idea of using head clamps myself.

It seems to me they would create an un-even, lop-sided load on the head gasket, reducing the clamping force on the intake side.

8 bolts suck, but at least the clamping force against the head gasket will be even and consistent all the way around each cylinder.

I REALLY wish someone would develop and produce a new affordable and iron 14-bolt version of the 109 block. The TA aluminum block looks like a fantastic piece, but at $4k, it's just completely out of reach of most Buick guys.


[disclaimer]
These are just my opinions, and are not meant to bash RJC in any way. Jason makes some fantastic stuff, some of which are on my car.[/disclaimer]
 
Yep, ARP studs torqued and retorqued with 5lb increments. This has happened with ME-R, XFI, stock heads, GN1,s etc... the only thing left is the block I guess. 11.2 afr, 20deg timing, 24psi. Also has lifted at 18psi. 0 knock.
 
I lifted my driver's side head. Hard to tell when it happened. The car ran lean at Norwalk, 12.7 AFR, 25psi but with 0 knock, I let off after the 1/8th. I drove the car for afew months at 18psi with no problems. Ran it again at a track rental. I could hear something going on at 21psi (cylinder pressure escaping). I took the car out on the road, and without a helmet, it sounded like throwing rocks at the side of the car. I did a retorque, and it quieted it down some, but the HD wastegate with the rjc controller that made a minimun of 25psi, is only making 22psi. I am pulling the engine this winter, hoping I didn't crack a head (old GN1's). I have no coolant loss, no extra coolant after a pass, no bubbles in the overflow, the car runs great, went 10.20@134 on 21psi, just makes noises. I am running Cometics BTW. The engine is a fresh Weber stroker, so the deck is flat.
 
I built a Ford small block motor 2 years ago and went to tune it. At 11 PSI, 10.8:1 AFR, 20 degree's timing.. it popped the gasket on the dyno. It had graphite gaskets on 1/2 studs. We put coppers on it, ran the engine again.. at 13 PSI it popped 4 pistons. Same safe AFR, same safe timing on the XFI.

After pulling the motor and going through it top to bottom.. new pistins/bearings/rings/etc.. what I found was the balancer had spun on itself. So 20 degree's timing on the XFI was actually 45 degree's.

I had another buddy with a BHJ balancer on a Buick.. the ring was pressed in the wrong location and his timing was off.

After the balancer incident the motor now has logged over 75 passes with zero issues.

So sometimes we need to look into places we havent for resolving issues.

Hope this post helps
 
forcefed3.8's said:
I lifted my driver's side head. Hard to tell when it happened. The car ran lean at Norwalk, 12.7 AFR, 25psi but with 0 knock,
Click to expand...

WOW!!! 12.7:1 is scary lean!!!!! Zero knock????? Maybe the knock sensor didn't hear it........but detonation was happening!

In the normally aspirated world that AFR is just fine, However with forced induction you need to be from 10.5 to 11.5 to be safe. If I'm not below 11.5:1 I am nervous as ho in church !!

I'm not suprised you lost headgaskets at that AFR. I'd rather be FAT and run more boost to run the number than flirt with disaster.

I'd recommend a much richer AFR to avoid detonation.
 
Since we're sharing head lift HG failure...

HG2.jpg

..
HG.jpg


You can see where #2 and 6 failed and about to on #4 but the other pic is where the composite of #3 had started to be eaten away and was soon to fail..

All my fault though...TTY head bolts and 24 psi.

No KR or any knock on the casper's gauge....just poof !


...
 
check to make sure dowel pins on block are not bottoming out on the head...ie install head without gasket and make sure head goes down all the way...NOS dowel pins are NA and have to be fabricated....I had this issue...head was torqued to spec...at 18 psi it was fine but at 27 psi it pushed gasket out...zero knock.....pulled heads...and installed without gasket and head was about 1/16 inch high in back where gasket blew...dowel pin was too long and fat...drilled hole bigger in head and head fit flush..(there was no junk in hole I checked that)...
 
gbsean said:
check to make sure dowel pins on block are not bottoming out on the head...ie install head without gasket and make sure head goes down all the way...NOS dowel pins are NA and have to be fabricated....I had this issue...head was torqued to spec...at 18 psi it was fine but at 27 psi it pushed gasket out...zero knock.....pulled heads...and installed without gasket and head was about 1/16 inch high in back where gasket blew...dowel pin was too long and fat...drilled hole bigger in head and head fit flush..(there was no junk in hole I checked that)...
Click to expand...

I picked up 8 new pins from the machine shop 2 years ago that were supposed to be the same a NOS pins. They were longer so I first cleaned holes in head & block with a drill bit (just cleaned them good) & then I had to file down the new dowel pins a bit in order for them to be the same length sa the NOS pins I have. I think there are a few people that overlook that area. I know a couple people personally including Sean that it has happened to. Doesn't take much to keep the head up a little bit & then with boost its time for Mr. Headgasket to say bye bye!
 
On every blown head gasket i keep reading in the posts no KR. No KR doesnt mean no detonation. WSLN 6 id look deep er then the block deck. Ive had some real chitty decks and they still held gaskets. The stock machining wasnt too great and neither were the TTY head bolts but ive thrown 25+psi at them and not had problems. Id definitely hot wire the injectors. For that to happen on 2 cylinders i dont see the deck being the critical problem. How much power was the car making at 18psi? If cylinder pressure is high and the engine is making 550+hp then the a little detonation will do a lot more damage. Fwiw my 9.3:1 109 will slightly detonate at 14psi on 93 octane without alky. It doesnt start to detonate till about 5300 rpm. At 18psi id bend the connecting rods and hammer the bearings out minimum if i tried it on 93 without alky. I see you have alky on there but imo something else is causing a problem. Check the reluctor. Check the rod bearings on those cylinders to see if it did indeed detonate. Its worth making your own dowel pins too. This way you can get a good fit on each individual one. Not so critical with your heads but with iron heads id do it. The heads usually slop around a lot. You can easily make a pin in a lathe that has 2 diameter dimensions.
 
Good info guys, keep it coming!
I did check before assembly with regards to the dowel pins, but I will double check everything this time around. I was talking to Cal about this as well and he mentioned the possible timing error if something was out of whack as well.

I have newer wiring from Racetronix (all hotwired) that includes new injector and ignition harness. New plug wires (Russ Merit ones). 10 gauge power feeding the 340 pump. IAT temps inside the plenum were in the 50 Degree range.
 
WS6 said:
All my fault though...TTY head bolts and 24 psi.
Click to expand...

I guess I need to clarify..."All my fault though...TTY head bolts and 24 psi. and history of detonation but resolved, but no KR or KR warning on that run, just poof!"
 
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