E85 Changeover suggestions?

[VtheGNMan]

I agree wholeheartedly. I love the razor kit and it was one of the single best mods I have ever done. But more moving parts=more potential for error. I really like the simplicity of E85. Like running race gas all the time with no aux pump and controls. Plus-if you get to have exhaust smelling like chocolate popcorn! how do you NOT do it!!!

 

[belsie]

More E-85 needs less back pressure! Bigger return most important as you progress..... plus they will follow you anywhere to enjoy the fumes......

 

[LSTTYPE]

I would also invest in a wideband gauge. Get ready to have some serious fun. It's single handily the best thing I've ever done to my car. I would definetly get a dash 6 return line and be done with fp issues forever. I also run a acufab fp regulator.

 

[BEATAV8]

A fuel pressure sensor for the powerlogger is also an extremely nice item to have

 

[VtheGNMan]

I ve got an LC1 wideband so when I get a power logger I can connect it right in. While the engine is out I think I ll just put a -6 return line in. I saw a material list in one of the sticky threads.

 

[Ttype6]

-Hotwired high flow fuel pump- but do you have to go Double Pumps or is there a single that can run this set up with 80's now?

When using two 255 LPH pumps you will never need to replace the return line. When you choose to run a single big pump,you need to replace the return line. You could have avoided the replacement of your return line if you would have bought a double pump set-up,but you weren't given this information to make a more informed decision. This is typically what happens in this community.

 

[belsie]

Most feel the return line is simply too small (especially w/ E-85) and with 27 year old components it never hurts to update & upgrade! Duals seem great but 1 pump only 1 problem, no additional switches or fear of 2nd pump not activating under boost seems to be the local consensus?? Good Luck...............

 

[Ttype6]

Most feel the return line is simply too small (especially w/ E-85)

The return line becomes too small when we send a ridiculous amount more fuel to the engine than it needs. This is what happens when one big pump is used. It is much more fuel than the engine needs at idle and low speed engine operation. Because of this,the excess fuel has to be returned to the tank. A bigger pump or two continuously operating smaller pumps,demands a greater volume of fuel be returned to the tank during low speed operation. The stock return line can handle only so much volume.

The return line isn't inadequate. It becomes inadequate when we ask it to do something it can't do.
The return line isn't too small because of the type of fuel we choose to use.
It is too small when we choose to send a very large volume of fuel to the engine during low speed operation. This problem can be avoided by using two smaller pumps while operating the second one only when it is needed. This will also minimize unnecessary heating of the fuel in the tank.

 

[VtheGNMan]

Most feel the return line is simply too small (especially w/ E-85) and with 27 year old components it never hurts to update & upgrade! Duals seem great but 1 pump only 1 problem, no additional switches or fear of 2nd pump not activating under boost seems to be the local consensus?? Good Luck...............

Exactly, I am trying make this a simple set up.

 

[Boost231]

Here we go again. Lmfao

 

[chris kirk]

IMO the stock fuel/return lines are to small for e85, even with an unopened motor. Using stock fuel/return lines that were used with 27lb. injector to going with 60lb. injectors and needing roughly 20% more fuel I would think would need larger fuel/return line and it wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturer of the pump required it. I'm not familiar with either one of those pumps, so I could be wrong, but I'd rather be safe then end up with a whole bunch of headaches. I've read about a lot of people using those pumps, but not much with e85. I went with an external Weldon for my application. That's what worked best for me. I would check just to be sure that larger lines aren't required. And even if they aren't I would never use the stock fuel/return lines with e85. Have to use a PFTE conductive core. Like belsie says, they're 27 years old, why would you not replace it. Also, if it's done right, one pump is all you need. I only use one pump.... Good luck with the conversion.

 

[VtheGNMan]

Thanks man, good of line of reasoning on that too.

 

[Ttype6]

IMO the stock fuel/return lines are to small for e85, even with an unopened motor. Using stock fuel/return lines that were used with 27lb. injector to going with 60lb. injectors and needing roughly 20% more fuel I would think would need larger fuel/return line and it wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturer of the pump required it.

Based on your words,I'm going to guess that you think there is a NEED for a larger ID fuel supply line as well as a larger ID fuel return line. I am currently supplying my engine with the equivalent volume of fuel to feed a 920 hp engine running on gasoline. I am using the stock feed and return lines. The injector size and fuel type are not factors in determining the ID of the return line and I would argue that you shouldn't even consider increasing the ID of the supply line until you are making more than 1,100hp on gasoline or 800 hp on E85.

The need for a larger ID return line is caused by the method we choose to supply our engines with fuel. Using one big pump creates the need. Using two small pumps or one big pump with a controller allows us to retain the stock return line. Again,fuel type or injector size has nothing to do with it.

 

[626gn]

80lb injectors, DW300 fuel pump, racetronix hotwire (with new in-tank wiring components too), caspers volt booster, TT chip, powerlogger, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, stock fuel lines and stock fuel filter.

That's all you'll need to fully support your turbo.

Yeah folks have mixed results with the stock return line. Worth a shot though. Maybe drill the ends out a bit. Then go -6 if it's not working out. Mine has been ok with stock return.

Any adjustable regulator will be fine. Anodized preferably. Stock supply line will be fine. Cellulose paper filters also work fine with E85. The return line might be OK. The common issue is an inability to run fuel pressure low enough at low idle. If that happens try drilling the most restrictive points where the line has fittings. If fuel pressure still too high then go -6 return line.

Most horror stories are due to water in the fuel. Water in the fuel is bad regardless of the fuel type! Gas, diesel, or E85.

This thread is making my head spin with some of the advice being given. Just about all you need to know on making the switch is in the posts I quoted above, imho. I've ran ethanol blended fuel for years with excellent results and no problems with nothing more than the advice quoted. It's not as complicated as some are making it out to be. I don't always agree with Ttype6 but his last 2 posts are very good

 

[belsie]

IMO the stock fuel/return lines are to small for e85, even with an unopened motor. Using stock fuel/return lines that were used with 27lb. injector to going with 60lb. injectors and needing roughly 20% more fuel I would think would need larger fuel/return line and it wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturer of the pump required it. I'm not familiar with either one of those pumps, so I could be wrong, but I'd rather be safe then end up with a whole bunch of headaches. I've read about a lot of people using those pumps, but not much with e85. I went with an external Weldon for my application. That's what worked best for me. I would check just to be sure that larger lines aren't required. And even if they aren't I would never use the stock fuel/return lines with e85. Have to use a PFTE conductive core. Like belsie says, they're 27 years old, why would you not replace it. Also, if it's done right, one pump is all you need. I only use one pump.... Good luck with the conversion.

My Man, seems like we all are requesting more from these cars than they thought 27 years ago!

 

[Ttype6]

My Man, seems like we all are requesting more from these cars than they thought 27 years ago!

I still have a hard time believing what these cars can do. They're amazing and they are the first to be so amazing. In 1986 and 1987 there was no amount of money that would buy a car that would out accelerate these cars. If anyone talks about the history of the automobile and leaves these cars out,they're being forgetful or dishonest. Every car after the Turbo Buicks owes their performance to the discoveries of the Buick people working on the Indy car projects. We are all enthusiasts of a unique and significant automobile.

 

[chris kirk]

Thanks man, good of line of reasoning on that too.

To the OP, out of respect for you and your thread I'm not going to turn this into a dick measuring contest.... So, I will keep it about your question. You have a lot of options for converting to e85. Some easier then others. Some better then others. If you were to ask ten people you would probably get ten different answers. And that's a good thing because it gives you choices and something to research and learn, then, you can make your own educated decisions. I know what's best for my application from doing just that! Also, I don't do things in a half ass way. The first thing I said to Nick Micale when we were discussing my build for a long block was "I don't do things in a half ass way!" I think Nick was very appreciative of that. Now, I'm not suggesting that anyone here is advising you to do so, but what I am suggesting is ask the people that know and do some research on your own. Read and then read some more about what others have done/used and do some research on it. Ask some questions. You don't have to convert to e85 tomorrow do you? I didn't think so. Also, think about the future. What modifications do you/will you want to make in the future? I have spent $$$$k on doing shit over. I'm no expert, and I don't know much, but I know this; do not use any fuel line or pumps that are not e85 approved. Use what ever size lines, injectors, pumps.... you want. Just make sure it's e85 approved. If it doesn't say it's e85 approved I wouldn't use it. Good luck!

 

[BEATAV8]

Handy info:

http://iqlearningsystems.com/ethanol/downloads/Ethanol & E85 Material Compatibility.pdf

 

[VtheGNMan]

Thanks guys, all great info and things to consider. I realize there are a lot of opinions and different ways to get it done. When I started this thread it was about suggestions due to the age of the stickies and you guys that have been running E85 for a while have learned as you have gone. Great suggestions and I have learned a lot.

 

[CuzzinOlaf]

I have a low mileage car but am running 11.1 @121mph with the turbo, heads, fuel pumps, and injectors in my sig on STOCK lines and have no fuel issues.