turbobob924
Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
I would like to see this test too!
cxracing.com intercooler
- Thread starter REGL8R
- Start date
I love it...
People will stone those that have or consider buying a "eBay cheap front mount" and then buy a Hecho in Mexico F Body plastic radiator for their car, delete the oil cooler, and praise it Monday thru Sunday.
Another great one is the Cardone MAF they buy cause its too expensive to get a translator and LS1 MAF, and nobody says a word.
Its all personal preference and some components are more critical than others if they fail.
I really doubt my IC will disintegrate and take out my motor, and I was expecting alot less quality than I recieved, believe it or not.
If it does fail I will let everyone know.
People will stone those that have or consider buying a "eBay cheap front mount" and then buy a Hecho in Mexico F Body plastic radiator for their car, delete the oil cooler, and praise it Monday thru Sunday.
Another great one is the Cardone MAF they buy cause its too expensive to get a translator and LS1 MAF, and nobody says a word.
Its all personal preference and some components are more critical than others if they fail.
I really doubt my IC will disintegrate and take out my motor, and I was expecting alot less quality than I recieved, believe it or not.
If it does fail I will let everyone know.
Wow, look what I started! haha
First of all I appreciate all the responses regardless of the response. I've seen that the general opinion on ebay intercoolers is negative and I figure it is for good reason simply for the fact that generally you do get what you pay for. However, I did not see anything on the site about THIS intercooler other than one post I found that the owner said he had a positive experience with, but he was also selling it so who knows. I don't see how this unit could cost more than a little over 300 installed, unless you had pipes welded/polished which would defeat the purpose of a cost effective intercooler anyways.
I also understand everyone trying to defend the vendors because the demand for products for our cars is not that big and quite frankly the options out there are tremendous although the price sometimes are not... which is to be expected. Trust me buick vendors have PLENTY of my money, but right now in my last semester of college I do not have the luxury throwing my money around. Right now I'm trying to get my project on the road for summer and gradually get rid of items that are restricting my car.
Murt TTA please keep me updated with your results on this piece and I will let you guys know what I finally decide and will most deffinitly report back with findings if I do decide to go with an ebay intercooler.
First of all I appreciate all the responses regardless of the response. I've seen that the general opinion on ebay intercoolers is negative and I figure it is for good reason simply for the fact that generally you do get what you pay for. However, I did not see anything on the site about THIS intercooler other than one post I found that the owner said he had a positive experience with, but he was also selling it so who knows. I don't see how this unit could cost more than a little over 300 installed, unless you had pipes welded/polished which would defeat the purpose of a cost effective intercooler anyways.
I also understand everyone trying to defend the vendors because the demand for products for our cars is not that big and quite frankly the options out there are tremendous although the price sometimes are not... which is to be expected. Trust me buick vendors have PLENTY of my money, but right now in my last semester of college I do not have the luxury throwing my money around. Right now I'm trying to get my project on the road for summer and gradually get rid of items that are restricting my car.
Murt TTA please keep me updated with your results on this piece and I will let you guys know what I finally decide and will most deffinitly report back with findings if I do decide to go with an ebay intercooler.
Pronto
Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2002
I used to have a link to an Austrailian company that made intercoolers. They had a huge section on contruction and types of tubes and how much they protrude into the tanks with tons of numbers to show what works and why. They offered several styles to fit people's budgets. At the bottom of the list was chinamade ones. They only offered them because of price and said so. They didn't match anywhere near the cooling #s for the well constructed one's did. I lost that site. I'm sure someone could find it. When I did my intercooler I went with a better constructed one. I didn't want to be scratching my head wondering why my dut neck did just as well....
Heres the thing, for a new intercooler to be more efficient than a 1986 technology, (hoping these are attempting better cooling, not just better location mounting) and have less residue in it from years of driving and possibly leaking seals isn't that much of a stretch. Yes I agree w/ the ones saying you can go 11s on a stock I/C, you absolutely can. What I want to see is what I tested in another car I had, which is a moderate priced "$400-$500 kit' (this one actually is a cheap priced one IMO) and see what boost is gained or lost, what fit and finish are at installation completion, and most importantly what the intake temp is from one to another.
I can not support this core being discussed since I have no exp w/ it, but when I did this on another turbo car, I gained a # and a half of boost from smoother shorter pipe length, and reduced temps at the intake (I honestly dont recall how much, it was 3 years ago)but I most noticed off red light acceleration by not being as heat soaked, and obvious difference at the time having two of the same car, one FMIC one not.
My advice is try it, take some time to get #s before and after,and educate us all on THIS kit. If it sucks, and it may, sell it to someone locally for $.90 on the $1, and consider it a cheap lesson. If it works, you are the hero of the day.
Just my $.02
I can not support this core being discussed since I have no exp w/ it, but when I did this on another turbo car, I gained a # and a half of boost from smoother shorter pipe length, and reduced temps at the intake (I honestly dont recall how much, it was 3 years ago)but I most noticed off red light acceleration by not being as heat soaked, and obvious difference at the time having two of the same car, one FMIC one not.
My advice is try it, take some time to get #s before and after,and educate us all on THIS kit. If it sucks, and it may, sell it to someone locally for $.90 on the $1, and consider it a cheap lesson. If it works, you are the hero of the day.
Just my $.02
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
Here is the Buschur Racing Intercooler Test Post From Dave himself.
Originally Posted by davidbuschur View Post
Here you go, we finally did it. I hope everyone is happy now. I know I am.
My car is on the dyno making huge power, 640 whp with the new HTA35R on it. We have our Race FMIC on it which I say is the best FMIC you can buy with your hard earned money. The tempurature today is 62 degrees F in our dyno room.
I made a bunch of pulls this morning and the car was making within 1-3 hp on the last few of 640/511 torque.
When I got done I decided to leave the car on the dyno and put on the Ebay intercooler that is a copy in appearance to the AMS FMIC.
My car is running C16. I am using NO air temp correction for fueling other than when the air is BELOW 50 degrees F. So if the air temp goes UP the fuel stays the same. I am using no timing compensation for anything either. What I am telling you all is the map is the map, it is running what I told it to and not making adjustments.
The last pull I made with our Race FMIC was 643 whp and 511 ft lbs of torque. I MADE NO CHANGES. I left the dyno, had Ted bolt on the new intercooler and came back when he was done.
Here is the important data:
Air temp after the intercooler at the start of the pull, 62.60 degrees.
Air temp after the intercooler at the end of the pull, 69.80 degrees.
Increase in air temp 7.2 degrees.
Peak boost was 40.3 psi.
We then bolted on the Ebay special that is an AMS attempted copy. Absolutely NO changes were made to anything other than bolting on the I/C.
Car made 633 whp and 505 ft lbs of torque. So not a bad loss at this HP level.
Here is the BAD part.
Air temp after the intercooler at the start of the pull, 62.60 degrees.
Air temp after the intercooler at the end of the pull, 122 degrees!! That is an increase in air temp of 59.4 degrees in a single gear pull!
Peak boost went up which I find strange as it hit 42.1.
The knock count went up considerably with these higher air temps. To run the car safely I would need to pull atleast a few degrees of timing.
**So in summary the intercooler with 2 more psi boost made 10 less whp than our Race FMIC at that is at big HP levels. The problem is the intercooler is NOT EFFICIENT AT REMOVING HEAT. Which is what it is there for. I am betting the stock FMIC is not much worse than this. An increase of 59.4 degrees is absolutely HUGE in a single gear pull. On a summer day or road race/autocross situation this intercooler would absolutely SUCK.
Bottom line is, you get what you pay for and buying one of these I do not think is a good investment of your money.
Originally Posted by davidbuschur View Post
Here you go, we finally did it. I hope everyone is happy now. I know I am.
My car is on the dyno making huge power, 640 whp with the new HTA35R on it. We have our Race FMIC on it which I say is the best FMIC you can buy with your hard earned money. The tempurature today is 62 degrees F in our dyno room.
I made a bunch of pulls this morning and the car was making within 1-3 hp on the last few of 640/511 torque.
When I got done I decided to leave the car on the dyno and put on the Ebay intercooler that is a copy in appearance to the AMS FMIC.
My car is running C16. I am using NO air temp correction for fueling other than when the air is BELOW 50 degrees F. So if the air temp goes UP the fuel stays the same. I am using no timing compensation for anything either. What I am telling you all is the map is the map, it is running what I told it to and not making adjustments.
The last pull I made with our Race FMIC was 643 whp and 511 ft lbs of torque. I MADE NO CHANGES. I left the dyno, had Ted bolt on the new intercooler and came back when he was done.
Here is the important data:
Air temp after the intercooler at the start of the pull, 62.60 degrees.
Air temp after the intercooler at the end of the pull, 69.80 degrees.
Increase in air temp 7.2 degrees.
Peak boost was 40.3 psi.
We then bolted on the Ebay special that is an AMS attempted copy. Absolutely NO changes were made to anything other than bolting on the I/C.
Car made 633 whp and 505 ft lbs of torque. So not a bad loss at this HP level.
Here is the BAD part.
Air temp after the intercooler at the start of the pull, 62.60 degrees.
Air temp after the intercooler at the end of the pull, 122 degrees!! That is an increase in air temp of 59.4 degrees in a single gear pull!
Peak boost went up which I find strange as it hit 42.1.
The knock count went up considerably with these higher air temps. To run the car safely I would need to pull atleast a few degrees of timing.
**So in summary the intercooler with 2 more psi boost made 10 less whp than our Race FMIC at that is at big HP levels. The problem is the intercooler is NOT EFFICIENT AT REMOVING HEAT. Which is what it is there for. I am betting the stock FMIC is not much worse than this. An increase of 59.4 degrees is absolutely HUGE in a single gear pull. On a summer day or road race/autocross situation this intercooler would absolutely SUCK.
Bottom line is, you get what you pay for and buying one of these I do not think is a good investment of your money.
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
I'll just say this, what is the job of an intercooler??
The stock IC can double ambient temps also, there is proof on this board. Though the PSI is lower than the cores used in the Buschur post the point is that if you are buying an IC to cool down the inlet temps, get one that will do just that.
And I never value the effectiveness of a performance part by how it looks. You can't tell how an FMIC will pull out heat by looking at it, welds yes, end tank design yes, but core efficiency and pressure drop no.
The stock IC can double ambient temps also, there is proof on this board. Though the PSI is lower than the cores used in the Buschur post the point is that if you are buying an IC to cool down the inlet temps, get one that will do just that.
And I never value the effectiveness of a performance part by how it looks. You can't tell how an FMIC will pull out heat by looking at it, welds yes, end tank design yes, but core efficiency and pressure drop no.
So you based your opinion on what you read in another forum,
about a diffferent intercooler company,
with a totally different design,
for a totally different car,
with the only thing being in common was eBay and maybe China?
Thats pretty thin evidence...even thinner than someone just looking at a IC and determining effectivness.
about a diffferent intercooler company,
with a totally different design,
for a totally different car,
with the only thing being in common was eBay and maybe China?
Thats pretty thin evidence...even thinner than someone just looking at a IC and determining effectivness.
I had to come back and reread your original question again, i thought i had missed something based on some of the replies.:wink:
That intercooler in your link is the same one i saw on a board members car here running in the 11's.
Gluing my lips together is tough here
Well, glue wore off:tongue:
It is a chinese I/C. It is probably not that bad of an I/C. I am sure it will out perform a stocker...... However I bet it WILL NOT come close to performing as good as a PTE stock location....
Now the problems are, you got to make, buy, or "rig" up some pipes. You also must buy the hoses, clamps and what little mounting hardware there is.
Add all that up plus shipping for the additional pieces, or riding around town looking for parts etc....
Now you got a piece that if something goes wrong or if you were to have a tech question, who are you gonna call?
Also you got a chinese made part where I have seen first hand Quality control must not exist over there
1 out of 5 may be right This is no different than when everyone tried the PS IC's. Yeah they work and you can do it yourself.
To each his own!
The question that this thread was started for had nothing to do with whether or not the stock intercooler can run into the 11's or anything about tuning.
There are some that can run fast with stock ic's and some that can run amazingly fast with V4 ic's but it's not the average tb owner or driver doing it.
What ever point you were trying to make missed the mark and not very helpful in answering the questions that was asked.
This is of course just my humble opinion, since you did quote my reply to the question asked.
I'd try it. As far as Chinese cores, without seeing the actual core design up close it's hard to say how it will perform. I'd stay away from Spearco cores, I have had 1st hand experience with them, not sure if they are made in the USA or not. Bar and plate cores, it's hard to beat Garrett cores and they are not cheap so......
XxDarkSidexX
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2002
Gluing my lips together is tough here
yea I am sealing my lips too till later, but I will say this. YES people run cxracing IC's and yes they seem to have success with them!
i know for fact that some venders here sell china made IC's
and they mark them up hundreds(300-400) of dollars in the process
and then to top it all off, they lie about the product makers and product origins
**CALL cxracing directly! THEY HAVE BIGGER IC's for OUR GN's.
***I run their 19" wide, Height is 11-1/2" and 4.5"thickness with In/Outlets 3"
that should be enough for now,
DS
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
Wow, I posted clear as day evidence about a Chinese Ebay core and it's not relevant because it came from another forum?? Do you know that Dave Buschur has an 8 second 4 cylinder, he is a very respected Import Vendor and even a member of this forum??
The truth is out there.
What I find ironic is that posts of someone going 11's with an Ebay core without IAT temps to back it up is somehow plenty of proof of how well it's performing but real test info is not good enough. :frown:
So you spend $300 with custom fabbed piping, your time to customize it ( your time is worth something ) now was all that worth it when it's going to be barely better than the stocker??
You can get a used stock location for around this price, much better option and there is IAT data on those also.
The truth is out there.
What I find ironic is that posts of someone going 11's with an Ebay core without IAT temps to back it up is somehow plenty of proof of how well it's performing but real test info is not good enough. :frown:
So you spend $300 with custom fabbed piping, your time to customize it ( your time is worth something ) now was all that worth it when it's going to be barely better than the stocker??
You can get a used stock location for around this price, much better option and there is IAT data on those also.
You forgot the part where it is a totally different IC, and totally different car too The only thing you know for sure is ebay and china the rest is BS.
Anyway...here is the real test info:
I tested mine today:Savannah River dragway 75*F
1/8 mile
7.8 Et
92.4 MPH
with a lousy 2.0 60 ft.
23 PSI :wink: on 25% E85
That converts into an estimated 11.9 1/4 mi
And there is still alot left...Need to buy some slicks DRs are just good for the street.
The only thing you know for sure is ebay and china the rest is BS.Anyway...here is the real test info:
I tested mine today:Savannah River dragway 75*F
1/8 mile
7.8 Et
92.4 MPH
with a lousy 2.0 60 ft.
23 PSI :wink: on 25% E85
That converts into an estimated 11.9 1/4 mi
And there is still alot left...Need to buy some slicks DRs are just good for the street.
The question that this thread was started for had nothing to do with whether or not the stock intercooler can run into the 11's or anything about tuning.
There are some that can run fast with stock ic's and some that can run amazingly fast with V4 ic's but it's not the average tb owner or driver doing it.
What ever point you were trying to make missed the mark and not very helpful in answering the questions that was asked.
This is of course just my humble opinion, since you did quote my reply to the question asked.
My point is as plain as the nose on your face or mine....the CHEAP front mount is NOT NEEDED. Get a proven part that works and quit throwing money down the drain. People assume that is what they need, when all they really needed was to learn to TUNE their car. But what the heck...just throw some more parts at it and be like the average TR owner that isn't running as fast as they should with what they already have on the car.
You forgot the part where it is a totally different IC, and totally different car too
Anyway...here is the real test info:
I tested mine today:Savannah River dragway 75*F
1/8 mile
7.8 Et
92.4 MPH
with a lousy 2.0 60 ft.
23 PSI :wink: on 25% E85
That converts into an estimated 11.9 1/4 mi
And there is still alot left...Need to buy some slicks DRs are just good for the street.
I'm looking for actual test data in your post??
Displaying a run at the track tells me what??
How bout some actual data. Like manifold (not AIT) temps during a pull/run with your intercooler, compared to your previous intercooler for example. Same day, same weather conditions...
I run 11.60's, so what? Does that mean my IC is that much better than yours? means little.
