Alcohol Or Propain (propane)
- Thread starter TEST MY 6
- Start date
Here's the 4-1-1 as I understand it from having done a lot of shopping around. FYI I decided to go with alcohol because of the cheaper startup cost, the more widespread usage of it, and my ignorance about propane and not wanting to have a tank in my trunk because of safety.
Advantages of Alcohol:
Cheaper acquisition cost
More people using (for now) More "tried and true"
Ease of refilling (some places wanna swap propane ctrs)
Don't have a pressurized, flammable fuel in your trunk
Advantages of Propain(ne):
Cheaper to refill
Lasts longer between refills
Adds more HP (good if you're pushing your fuel system)
Won't drown the spark like alky can when tuning
I'm sure you'll get a lot of different opinions. Since I was wanting to go cheap and had done much more research on alky, I went with that. Plus I think its cool to say "Now both car and driver are alcohol injected."
Good luck and let us know what you go with.
Advantages of Alcohol:
Cheaper acquisition cost
More people using (for now) More "tried and true"
Ease of refilling (some places wanna swap propane ctrs)
Don't have a pressurized, flammable fuel in your trunk
Advantages of Propain(ne):
Cheaper to refill
Lasts longer between refills
Adds more HP (good if you're pushing your fuel system)
Won't drown the spark like alky can when tuning
I'm sure you'll get a lot of different opinions. Since I was wanting to go cheap and had done much more research on alky, I went with that. Plus I think its cool to say "Now both car and driver are alcohol injected."
Good luck and let us know what you go with.
Turbo__Tim
One heck of a Tim!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Well said! Performance wise it is too early to say if one is better than the other. So far it doesn't look like much difference between the two.
It was a little easier for me to tune the propane, but others have had no problem at all with the alchy.
I'm curious to see how the propane works with the varying temperatures, and the resulting swings in bottle pressures. This year we should have the answer to that...
Performance wise it is too early to say if one is better than the other. So far it doesn't look like much difference between the two.It was a little easier for me to tune the propane, but others have had no problem at all with the alchy.
I'm curious to see how the propane works with the varying temperatures, and the resulting swings in bottle pressures. This year we should have the answer to that...
turbot2112
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2001
i just switched from propain to alky. i didnt like the idea of having a tank in the trunk with a bottle warmer which you will definately need when temperatures drop.if i llived in a warm climate all year around i would have kept the propain.
turbowrenchhead
Drive like you stole it!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
I ran alky and I didn't like the bog from alky. I also didn't like that fact that when your seriously hammering on it the tank would run dry in 7 or 8 miles. Not good when your on a road course and you have to pit to fill your alky tank. I also didn't like that fact there was only one place to get methonal and they had crapy hours. I sold my SMC anticapating a propain setup.
Red Regal T
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
IMO, YOU'RE THROWING GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD. IF YOU INSTALLED A DIY KIT (steve monroe), THERE WOULD BE NO BOG, YOU'D HAVE A ONE GALLON RESERVOIR, AND YOU COULD RUN ANY MIXTURE YOU WANT. I USED ALKY AND WATER FOR YEARS AND NOW I'M ON METHANOL AND WATER FOR THE PAST SIX MONTHS. NEVER HAD ANY OF THE PROBLEMS YOU'VE DESCRIBED OR ANY MALFUNCTIONS IN THREE YEARS AND THE WHOLE KIT COST UNDER $175. HAPPY SPENDING.........
TurboBuickSix
Active Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
On the other hand I just paid $5.09 incl tax to fill my propane tank!!,should last me the whole driving season (3 months here)I'm told.And see I did'nt even have to YELL to make my point
Red Regal T
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Originally posted by TurboBuickSix
On the other hand I just paid $5.09 incl tax to fill my propane tank!!,should last me the whole driving season (3 months here)I'm told.
.............GLAD THAT MAKES YOU HAPPY.
TurboBuickSix
Active Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
Originally posted by Red Regal T
.............GLAD THAT MAKES YOU HAPPY.
And I am glad that you are glad John,it really makes a difference...Maybe you could stop shouting and stamping your feet now
Red Regal T
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Originally posted by TurboBuickSix
And I am glad that you are glad John,it really makes a difference...Maybe you could stop shouting and stamping your feet now
I'D CHANGE THE SUBJECT TOO IF ALL I COULD SAY ABOUT PROPANE WAS THAT IT WAS A COUPLE DOLLARS CHEAPER TO BUY.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Then how about the fact that our test car picked up 45 horsepower and 70 ft/lbs of torque AT THE WHEELS, the fact that it costs $6.00 to fill a tank and lasts between 4 and 6 months between fills and the fact that I dont have to type in all capitals to get my point across?
Turbo__Tim
One heck of a Tim!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
45 HP is enough to take a 13.1 car to 12.5's in the quarter.
It can be argued that people regularly spend that kind of money, and don't see the same performance gain.
Lots of people like to throw around the figure of $10 for every 1 horsepower of gain. The propain system exceeds that somewhat arbitrary figure, at the same time reducing (or greatly elliminating) knock, and providing the convenience of not having to replenish the supply often.
As far as the propane tank in the back, I worry more about the plastic bottle in the front more.
JMO, but the alchy systems should cost more than they do. The correct alchy system would supply a modulated spray (modulated by engine RPM), have 4 nozzles, and a meth resistant pump capable of 60-80 psi. It should be 2 stage as well. A 2 gallon fuel cell mounted in the trunk would be good as well.
A system such as this would cost around $550 - $650 if sold by a vendor. The tuning issues, convenience, and dependably issues would be addressed.
I've only seen one dyno run that involved alchy. It was a while ago but I can say the performance gains were very impressive.
IMO, after considering the information available to me, the propain system is not that much more expensive than a well designed alchy system.
There remain 2 questions that need answering.
(1) Which system holds the performance gain edge.
(20 When will Red Regal T mellow out, and become a peacefull old man...
It can be argued that people regularly spend that kind of money, and don't see the same performance gain.
Lots of people like to throw around the figure of $10 for every 1 horsepower of gain. The propain system exceeds that somewhat arbitrary figure, at the same time reducing (or greatly elliminating) knock, and providing the convenience of not having to replenish the supply often.
As far as the propane tank in the back, I worry more about the plastic bottle in the front more.
JMO, but the alchy systems should cost more than they do. The correct alchy system would supply a modulated spray (modulated by engine RPM), have 4 nozzles, and a meth resistant pump capable of 60-80 psi. It should be 2 stage as well. A 2 gallon fuel cell mounted in the trunk would be good as well.
A system such as this would cost around $550 - $650 if sold by a vendor. The tuning issues, convenience, and dependably issues would be addressed.
I've only seen one dyno run that involved alchy. It was a while ago but I can say the performance gains were very impressive.
IMO, after considering the information available to me, the propain system is not that much more expensive than a well designed alchy system.
There remain 2 questions that need answering.
(1) Which system holds the performance gain edge.
(20 When will Red Regal T mellow out, and become a peacefull old man...
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
I'm not trying to say one is better than the other. I'm simply stating that the gains are there and there is no reason to make remarks like that. If people want to run alcohol, that's great. If people want to run propane, that's great, too.
BTW, if you think a kit that costs $550.00 to make would be sold for $650.00 by a dealer, you are sadly mistaken. Probably closer to $750.00.
BTW, if you think a kit that costs $550.00 to make would be sold for $650.00 by a dealer, you are sadly mistaken. Probably closer to $750.00.
Turbo__Tim
One heck of a Tim!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
What's that Jay, you trying to make a point? I musta missed it. Try using all caps next time...
All I will say is that Red loves his alchy system. He is darn proud of it! If it would go 'Dutch', he would prolly take it out on a date with him..Hehe. (Sorry Red - couldn't resist.) (no offense to Duchy people either)
There are quite of people here that resist new product based on the 'what's wrong with what we already have' theory. Red is just more,...ahh...passionate, and....ahh,.... more to the point than most.
As always people will listen to the facts, (wether they are typed all caps or not) and will buy based based on performance, and cost benefit. As long as we have people like Red, one side of the story will always be known. As long as we have members (and vendors) willing to try new products, the other side will be told. It's all good! even Red wouldn't deny us the freedom of choice!
I know there is a good hearted person crawling around inside Red Regal T, maybe we can show him how to get in touch with his 'inner child'...
All I will say is that Red loves his alchy system. He is darn proud of it! If it would go 'Dutch', he would prolly take it out on a date with him..Hehe. (Sorry Red - couldn't resist.) (no offense to Duchy people either)
There are quite of people here that resist new product based on the 'what's wrong with what we already have' theory. Red is just more,...ahh...passionate, and....ahh,.... more to the point than most.
As always people will listen to the facts, (wether they are typed all caps or not) and will buy based based on performance, and cost benefit. As long as we have people like Red, one side of the story will always be known. As long as we have members (and vendors) willing to try new products, the other side will be told. It's all good! even Red wouldn't deny us the freedom of choice!
I know there is a good hearted person crawling around inside Red Regal T, maybe we can show him how to get in touch with his 'inner child'...
Red Regal T
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
WELL, I WOULD HOPE THAT PROPANE INJECTION MAKES SOME SORT OF POWER GAIN, OR WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION. THE PROBLEM TO ME IS THE INITIAL COST OF THE SYSTEM. I CAN DO MY SYSTEM FOR UNDER $175.
I GUARANTEE YOU A BOTTLE OF PROPANE WOULDN'T LAST ME 4 TO 6 MONTHS. REALLY, WHO DOES THAT PERTAIN TO.........SOME GUY WHO DRIVES HIS CAR ON SATURDAY NITES ONLY? NOT REALLY WORTH DEBATING. I DON'T THINK IT'S MUCH OF A SALE POINT, ANYWAY.
I MIGHT NOT HAVE ANSWERED, BUT THIS "PROBLEM" ABOUT CAPS DOESN'T HOLD ANY WATER. ANOTHER GUY WITH A VIVID IMAGINATION (re: turbobuicksix). IF MY CAPS HURT YOUR EARS, YOU BETTER GO SEE A SHRINK!
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
It's obvious you are sold on alcohol and that's great. I'm not going to bother debating anything with you because I don't see you changing your opinion. Nothing wrong with alcohol, if it works for you, keep on keeping on.
As far as the tank situation, all I can go by is the feedback my testers gave me. Here is a quote from Kenny Brown in another one of the propane threads concerning the length of time his tank lasted him.
Granted if you're one of those people that has to go WOT from every stop light you aren't going to get the same length of time out of a tank as he is but average time for most people has been anywhere from 4-6 months out of a tank.
As far as the tank situation, all I can go by is the feedback my testers gave me. Here is a quote from Kenny Brown in another one of the propane threads concerning the length of time his tank lasted him.
Granted if you're one of those people that has to go WOT from every stop light you aren't going to get the same length of time out of a tank as he is but average time for most people has been anywhere from 4-6 months out of a tank.
Proof that Red CAN type without caps!!!
Red Regal T
Supporting Vendor
through 5-7-03
Registered: May 2001
Location: Zephyrhills, FLORIDA Tampa Bay
Posts: 1419
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Turbo__Tim
You really shouldn't be doing any of this without an egt. Going into the 'red' even for short periods of time will damage the mains.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim.......since you bring up my name......After reading that "book of instructions" above, I just have to thank my lucky stars I installed a diy kit on my car over three years ago. I just can't believe all the bull with that system.
__________________
John DiCarlo
rudykz@cs.com
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
From another thread in the alky forum. Just thought the whole cap key thing was funny.
Red Regal T
Supporting Vendor
through 5-7-03
Registered: May 2001
Location: Zephyrhills, FLORIDA Tampa Bay
Posts: 1419
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Turbo__Tim
You really shouldn't be doing any of this without an egt. Going into the 'red' even for short periods of time will damage the mains.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim.......since you bring up my name......After reading that "book of instructions" above, I just have to thank my lucky stars I installed a diy kit on my car over three years ago. I just can't believe all the bull with that system.
__________________
John DiCarlo
rudykz@cs.com
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
From another thread in the alky forum. Just thought the whole cap key thing was funny.
Turbo__Tim
One heck of a Tim!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Hehe, John LOVES his alchy system. (I bet he carries a picture of it in his wallet.) He built it all by himself, and it hardly cost anything! It's the first thing he thinks about in the morning. Even before he takes his geritol, he is outside in his jammies, and under the hood with a stethescope on the beloved and famous 3 year-old pump (the heart of the system!).
He lovingly taps the test button, and listens as the pump spins, his eyebrows furrowed in worried concern as he listens for anything out of the unusual. "Come on baby, I'm counting on you, 3 years, 10 days, and counting!"
I honestly believe that if the pump ever failed there would be a cover-up of CIA proportions. He would prolly go out of state, buy a replacement with cash, and then go to a deserted field somewhere to replace it by moonlioght, and bury the old one, along with any evidence that would tie him to the new pump.
This would happen not to far out of state, as I am sure that he would want to visit the gravesite every once in a while to grieve, and show respect.
There would be a small headstone of course, but I can't think of what would be written there, because this is getting too weird even for me. Maybe somebody else could come up with something fitting. Whatever it is, it would need to look GOOD IN CAPS!
Hehe.....
He lovingly taps the test button, and listens as the pump spins, his eyebrows furrowed in worried concern as he listens for anything out of the unusual. "Come on baby, I'm counting on you, 3 years, 10 days, and counting!"
I honestly believe that if the pump ever failed there would be a cover-up of CIA proportions. He would prolly go out of state, buy a replacement with cash, and then go to a deserted field somewhere to replace it by moonlioght, and bury the old one, along with any evidence that would tie him to the new pump.
This would happen not to far out of state, as I am sure that he would want to visit the gravesite every once in a while to grieve, and show respect.
There would be a small headstone of course, but I can't think of what would be written there, because this is getting too weird even for me. Maybe somebody else could come up with something fitting. Whatever it is, it would need to look GOOD IN CAPS!
Hehe.....
Red Regal T
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Originally posted by Turbo__Tim
Hehe, John LOVES his alchy system.
I honestly believe that if the pump ever failed there would be a cover-up of CIA proportions. He would prolly go out of state, buy a replacement with cash, and then go to a deserted field somewhere to replace it by moonlioght, and bury the old one, along with any evidence that would tie him to the new pump.
Hehe.....
IF MY PUMP DID FAIL, IT WOULDN'T OWE ME A THING. I'VE BEEN RUNNING IT FOR THREE YEARS AND UNLIKE YOU WEEKEND WARRIORS, HAVE BEEN DRIVING MY CAR AND USING MY ALKY KIT 25-30,000 MILES A YEAR. I DON'T USE EXPENSIVE DENATURED. I DON'T HAVE TO CHECK MY RESERVOIR LEVEL AFTER EVERY BLAST. HELL, I'VE NEVER EVEN USED ANY LUBRICANT!
I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT GETTING A NEW PUMP TO PUT ON THE SHELF..........$55
. I HAVEN'T NOTICED ANYBODY HERE POSTING ABOUT THEIR DIY KIT GOING SOUTH. I GUESS I'M BEING CHIDED BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE REMINDED HOW MUCH MONEY YOU SPENT ON YOUR KIT. OR IS IT THAT, MISERY LOVES COMPANY. 
