many mods promised me 11's but running 14's!

[Grumpy]

ya just can't throw parts at a car so what was the mph or don't you want to say

 

[Blown&Injected]

Come on and relax people; not a cool way to make a new member feel welcomed, nobody is born an expert.

The catalytic converter may be hurting you significantly. And I can tell you that my car hooks up better on regular 28" street tires, then it did with 26" tall Drag Radials...so that is some insight as to why some are flipping out about 20's.

But even with 20's, we can figure out what needs to be done to get the tune right.

You need good gas (or alky) and a SOLID TUNE if you are blowing over 20 psi boost!!!

Need to monitor KR = Knock Retard Should be zero.

O2 volts in the upper 700's to low 800's

And before anything...ensure nothing is wrong with the basic tune. May call it the Spring Cleaning: The Grand National / T-Type / Turbo Regal Buick Spring Cleaning Guide You have a new intercooler so not all needs to be done, maybe nothing with a new setup but it serves as a check list.

Also found on that site are specs for all your sensors. If your MAF, TPS, O2 is not reading right, you will have problems.

This is not like most other boards on the net, lots of help here usually minutes, not days away. So now you have some work to do; lets see what's going on here.

 

[86brick]

Rollin' on 20's will certainly not help you at the track! If you still have the stock wheels put them back on when you go and get some decent drag radials be it Nittos, BFGs, Hoosiers, or the best the M/Ts. That alone will help you tremendously because you should be able to then get some decent 60's with a good footbrake launch. Adam and TurboDave summed it up pretty well, definitely get a ScanMaster as it's a nice cheap scan tool which will make it a lot easier to tune the car with the O2 #'s/KR. If possible I would hook up with some local Turbo Buick guys that can help you when you go to the track especially with the tune-up, cause as Grumpy mentioned these cars require tuning not just throwing money/parts at them.

Good luck

 

[Fat Nat]

My favorite part is that 22psi is not enough boost. Dont be one of the guys that cranks the thing through the roof because you think it should go faster. Put some 15" wheels and tires on the car with DR's or slicks and save the 20"s for the next rap video Youll have your 11 sec pass for sure. Please post the 60' had to be in the 2.5 range

 

[bison]

Did the person who promised you 11's promise to tune your car? Throwing a bunch of parts on doesnt mean dick. 60' time and 1/8 to 1/4 mph gain tells us a lot more than your first post. 11's on the stock turbo takes a really good tune. Not going to happen on 20's, lol!

 

[bmackinnon]

Come on and relax people; not a cool way to make a new member feel welcomed, nobody is born an expert.

The catalytic converter may be hurting you significantly. And I can tell you that my car hooks up better on regular 28" street tires, then it did with 26" tall Drag Radials...so that is some insight as to why some are flipping out about 20's.

But even with 20's, we can figure out what needs to be done to get the tune right.

You need good gas (or alky) and a SOLID TUNE if you are blowing over 20 psi boost!!!

Need to monitor KR = Knock Retard Should be zero.

O2 volts in the upper 700's to low 800's

And before anything...ensure nothing is wrong with the basic tune. May call it the Spring Cleaning: The Grand National / T-Type / Turbo Regal Buick Spring Cleaning Guide You have a new intercooler so not all needs to be done, maybe nothing with a new setup but it serves as a check list.

Also found on that site are specs for all your sensors. If your MAF, TPS, O2 is not reading right, you will have problems.

This is not like most other boards on the net, lots of help here usually minutes, not days away. So now you have some work to do; lets see what's going on here.

Agree with Blown... with your mods, you should be wondering why your tires turn to smoke everytime the car spools up.. :smile: The tires have nothing to do with the tune, which is obviously way off. Post up your scan tool data for idle and high load conditions.... and if possible, the period when you first nail it as it transitions into boost. Lot's of very knowledgable people here WILL help you get it tuned-up. FWIW, I'm sure on the 'right' car, the 20's look great. Does the name Heath Elmer ring a bell, anyone?

 

[Adam Connell]

Agree with Blown... with your mods, you should be wondering why your tires turn to smoke everytime the car spools up.. :smile: The tires have nothing to do with the tune, which is obviously way off. Post up your scan tool data for idle and high load conditions.... and if possible, the period when you first nail it as it transitions into boost. Lot's of very knowledgable people here WILL help you get it tuned-up. FWIW, I'm sure on the 'right' car, the 20's look great. Does the name Heath Elmer ring a bell, anyone?

Heath Elmer had 17s or 18s... and it was a purpose built road racing style GN. Please do not insult that car... Everything has a place, but these cars are not "slabs" "donks" or whatever goofy ass names hoodrats come up with for POS cars with crappy metal flake paint jobs and wheels that were most likely rented... Trust me big wheels look great when done right, but just slapping on a set of 20s makes there cars look retarded... THESE ARE PERFORMANCE CARS! Put a set of PERFORMANCE wheels on them... if you want a slab then go buy an 84 caprice and throw 24s on it and roll on down the road... if you want a GN or T type then keep it true to it's performance roots...

 

[six slinger]

i hate to sound like an ass, but you need to reply at a faster rate if you want people to help you! and my impression is that you dont! if you are monitoring air fuel ratios,sensors,we have a lot of willing and knowledgeable people here to help you! other wise dont post! people are taking time from there busy lives to help at no freaking fee to you!! hate to bash. but think about that next time you post!!!

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Well if I had to guess, you had an import guy do all this work for you, maybe a Honda guy ( PGM Tester )?
Scanmaster and/or Powerlogger are your friends here.

You're really disappointed because of all the money you spent. You can't be disappointed because you KNEW it would run an 11 due to the fact that you don't have any experience with these cars.

So, spend a ton of time on here and see all the mistakes the guy that slapped parts on your car made. The internet can't come over and fix your car now, you're going to have to do it because your initial guy can't tune or set up these cars worth a damn.

Who the F races with the stock cat and race gas??

And don't tell us your 20's have street tires on them??

Eric at Turbo Tweak is someone I'd call up for a chip to get you on the right track here.

Run a manual boost controller ( ebay $15 ) and don't think of running more than 22psi even with a great tune until you get a handle on these cars. 30psi is pushing it for us so keep that in mind, we aren't Evo's that can run 40+psi.

 

[stack1]

You don't have to post a copy of the timeslip, just type what the times are!! Where in Ohio are you located? Although I agree with everyone on the wheel issue, I'll offer my help to try and get it running better.

 

[BlackBandit]

Man, you guys are being kinda brutal. Cut the guy some slack. So he has 20's on his car. If you don't like it go give him a cash offer he cant' refuse. Then it'll be your car and your opinion will mean something. FWIW I mostly think the large rim thing is a crap look (with a few exceptions) and that's why I don't have them on my car but there are plenty of people that have them because they think small rims look crappy. It's just an opinion and everyone has one. That said at least he's on here asking for help. I mean, it's not like he logged on and said you all are a-holes and it's your fault my car is slow. He asked "what am I doing wrong?". I agree with blown, it's not a good way to make someone feel welcome and I don't see the point in alienating someone that for all anyone knows will end up being a valuable member of the community.

All right, I'm off of my soap box. Post your time slips when you get a chance. The 20's are never going to work well at the strip, I think that's been covered. And turn down the boost until you learn how to tune your car. You'll be really happy in the long run when you don't blow the engine. Then, do allot of reading. (here and Turbo Regal Web Site) Use the search function on here and read read read. If you've got a question that's common you'll get it on the search function and if you still don't get it then post a thread. There are allot of people on here that love to help but it does get old answering the same questions over and over so if you've searched and put forth some effort you'll end up getting better advice. Also, keep in mind that allot of stuff is opinionated and there are many ways to accomplish a goal so you'll likely get several different opinions on how to start solving your problem. Without knowing how much you know about cars I'd advise that you pay attention to who's going fast. For example, Grumpy has built some very fast cars without allot of high end parts and for every one of him you'll find ten guys with all the gadgets running 12's. If they both give you different advice on the same problem who you gonna go with? I not saying Grumpy knows everything and is always right, but in reading what he posts I think you'll find he's not going to talk out of his butt either. Good luck and with some patience you'll get your car sorted out.

 

[newkid87GN]

I have a very similar setup as lind12950,TE-60,#60 stock intercooler, Pats 3200,with alky running 22psi.My only time out my best run was 13.177@105,with a lousy 2.095 60ft. I ran street tires and was concerned about traction so I left under no boost. I was also told that my combo should net 11,s. As far as tuning goes evertybody has their own tricks and techniques but if you get a TT chip and set the fuel pressure to the desired spec there really isnt much more tuning you can do..Please correct me if I am wrong..Some of the guys on the board have been tuning and racing these cars for years and its not as easy for those of us that are just getting our feet wet.. Bolting on parts is not as critical as a proper tune but bolting on the right parts can make a huge difference..Just my opinion,

 

[Super6]

I have a very similar setup as lind12950,TE-60,#60 stock intercooler, Pats 3200,with alky running 22psi.My only time out my best run was 13.177@105,with a lousy 2.095 60ft. I ran street tires and was concerned about traction so I left under no boost. I was also told that my combo should net 11,s. As far as tuning goes evertybody has their own tricks and techniques but if you get a TT chip and set the fuel pressure to the desired spec there really isnt much more tuning you can do..Please correct me if I am wrong..Some of the guys on the board have been tuning and racing these cars for years and its not as easy for those of us that are just getting our feet wet.. Bolting on parts is not as critical as a proper tune but bolting on the right parts can make a huge difference..Just my opinion,

Everycar is differrent, Eric's chip has a timing adjustment and fuel adjustment that can be changed up or down. i am a firm believer of a wideband for tuning especially when you start jacking the boost up. i have seen guys messing with these cars for years still in the 12's with lots of parts. Tuning is very important with the right parts....hth...Bob

 

[BlackBandit]

I have a very similar setup as lind12950,TE-60,#60 stock intercooler, Pats 3200,with alky running 22psi.My only time out my best run was 13.177@105,with a lousy 2.095 60ft. I ran street tires and was concerned about traction so I left under no boost. I was also told that my combo should net 11,s. As far as tuning goes evertybody has their own tricks and techniques but if you get a TT chip and set the fuel pressure to the desired spec there really isnt much more tuning you can do..Please correct me if I am wrong..Some of the guys on the board have been tuning and racing these cars for years and its not as easy for those of us that are just getting our feet wet.. Bolting on parts is not as critical as a proper tune but bolting on the right parts can make a huge difference..Just my opinion,

Actually the TT chip gives you the ability to do ALLOT of tuning. Allot of tuning is just patience. Most people get to the track and just want to turn up the boost and go. Then they are disappointed when they aren't as fast as they should be with their parts. One of the biggest tricks to tuning is being methodical. I went to the strip yesterday with my new combo and only made one sub 8 second (1/8th mile) pass. Why? because I started with low boost and I just launched off idle (no foot braking or anything) so I would be as consistent as possible and started working on fuel. (watching mph to indicate power) In fact, the only reason I made a sub 8 second pass was because I couldn't resist trying one hard launch. When I left the boost was still fairly low and the tune was fairly fat because I had some other issues. What I'm trying to say is I didn't get greedy. I'll go back to the track after studying these logs and making some adjustments and zero in the fuel a little more and then start upping the boost until it's where I want it. Then I'll start working in timing. Then, when fuel, timing, and boost are where I want them I'll really launch it hard and see what I can do but that won't be for at least 10-15 more passes. It's not rocket science, just patience and deliberate changes.

 

[need boost]

Why 20s don't work

Everyone has told you that the 20s are killing you but noone has told you why. Let me try to explain it ok. Our cars have 3.42 gears in the back. This means that the driveshaft has to turn 3.42 times to get the rear tire to turn 1 full circle. Ok say that if the tire turns one full time it moved the car forward 4 feet for an example on the stock 15 in tires. Now since your tires are bigger one full turn might move the car forward 6 feet instead of 4 feet. Since you are moving 3500 lbs of dead weight forward even further the car is having to strain more to do it and the car will be further and further down the track as your RPMs on the motor finally get up. As the RPMS get up into their power range your car speeds up faster. If you are still running the stock convertor it is REALLY killing you running them tall tires as well. It is keeping your rpms down as well on take off and trying to turn the bigger wheels is taking you forever to get the motor up in its power band. The bigger wheels are also putting a LOT of strain on your rear axles if you are making a lot of power, cruising is find but racing is an accident waiting to happen as one of the axles will likey break on you sooner or later. I hate the big wheels as they are not my thing but my advise to you is if you just HAVE to have them on your car , cruise with them and when you go to the track swap your wheels out back to 15s and have fun and watch your times drop at the track as well! Daniel Ray
ps just noticed you are running a 2800 stall, with them big tires you are COOKING that convertor and your tranny trying to run fast with the big wheels.

 

[lloyd smale]

Just the fact hes running 20s doesn mean that much. Its the tire diameter not the wheel diameter thats going to cause the problem. If hes running 20s and a very low profile tire which im sure he has to to clear the metal hes not running any differntly then running a set of big drag radials like i see alot doing. The only disadvantage is that he is pushing a lot more rolling weight with those big rims. Now i know squat about 20 inch rims and the tire sizes for them. Maybe you cant match tire diameters with a 15 inch rim on a Gn. If that is so i appologize.

 

[Blazer406]

Don't you just love it when the OP comes begging for help........many try to help... but there are no details....and the OP doesn't monitor the thread close enough and answer all the questions that have been asked of him.........

Hey... OP...... most if not all the help you need is here.......you need to be courteous enough to answer all the questions that have been asked in a timely manner...

We are here to help....just give-up some of the details.....

For instance.... you should have already told us the 60' time (without having to go look at the timeslip) ... IMHO...and MPH.....you ought to remember your 60' time..... or within .1 of it anyway... and you ought to remember your MPH.......at least within .5 mph anyway........those two stats are 2nd and 3rd in importance after the ET.....


Now bring on the answers... so we can help you...

 

[Blazer406]

Just the fact hes running 20s doesn mean that much. Its the tire diameter not the wheel diameter thats going to cause the problem. If hes running 20s and a very low profile tire which im sure he has to to clear the metal hes not running any differntly then running a set of big drag radials like i see alot doing. The only disadvantage is that he is pushing a lot more rolling weight with those big rims. Now i know squat about 20 inch rims and the tire sizes for them. Maybe you cant match tire diameters with a 15 inch rim on a Gn. If that is so i appologize.

I totally disagree. (respectfully)

The smaller (diameter) wheels running the same height tire gives much more sidewall... and absorbs the "shock" of all the torque... and usually making it much easier to hook. Naturally 15" wheels have a much taller sidewall than a comparable height 20" combo... drag radial... slick.... I don't care... the 15 is going to rule over the 20..... all day long in the traction department in a drag race...

 

[lloyd smale]

you made a good point and one that i didnt consider. My post was aimed at the overall gearing part of the responses

I totally disagree. (respectfully)

The smaller (diameter) wheels running the same height tire gives much more sidewall... and absorbs the "shock" of all the torque... and usually making it much easier to hook. Naturally 15" wheels have a much taller sidewall than a comparable height 20" combo... drag radial... slick.... I don't care... the 15 is going to rule over the 20..... all day long in the traction department in a drag race...

 

[bison]

I totally disagree. (respectfully)

The smaller (diameter) wheels running the same height tire gives much more sidewall... and absorbs the "shock" of all the torque... and usually making it much easier to hook. Naturally 15" wheels have a much taller sidewall than a comparable height 20" combo... drag radial... slick.... I don't care... the 15 is going to rule over the 20..... all day long in the traction department in a drag race...

+1