wow..the Flowmaster exhaust really sucks

IF they are "myths" then please provide the factual data to disprove the "myth".

What is the "right" flowmaster for my application?

Flowmaster pitched the catback system for the GN claiming xx HP increase over stock. They never compared against the other brands, though as other brands came to market they compared to FM and determined thier product made more power than the Flowmaster for this turbo application.. (and a few others)

Notice now that flowmaster no longer provides a part number for a catback system for the TR. If it worked and made the most power they would still be marketing it.

Yes now we are talking! Well it depends what you would consider "right". If loud isn't an issue, then I'll assume by "right" you mean newest technology and highest CFM flow?

Yes flowmaster pitched that idea exactly as you said. but remember flowmaster runs their company old school style and that idea + setup were designed in the late 80's but still sell or why change or update it is their thinking im assuming. Consider my point further because they didn't even get on youtube until a few years ago. my point is their marketing sucks imho as most american vendor parts companies even some on this board. I wish they did it differently but hey I can only cry about it. I agree with you if companies would just post tests and results and have some marketing skills their net would increase that much would be obvious, but once you start digging trust me real explanations get nasty. Anyways a good example of a vendor who stands out look at guys like don wang, he just doesn't fix transmissions haha if you get my funny way of saying it he posts more results and testing data and experiments then any vendor i have ever meet.

Well actually flowmaster does have a current part number (17102) for that stock replacement system you mentioned, but remember this is the same idea/marketing/product from the late 80's. And they only keep it because its there and it works and a few are sold each year netting a profit without having to do work. the listing can be found on their home site. As i mentioned before it doesn't work the BEST its just there imho.

** NOW let me know about your exhaust and I would LOVE to help you pick some new flowmasters because believe me they may SUCK @ marketing but not muffler design. The question becomes do you want a dual/single? What size? downpipe size? What cat are you using if any at all? How loud of a DB limit do you have. After those then I can help pick the right flowmaster. If I was lucky enough to work at a shop I would post all the info and test results. The only data I have is what I have researched, the mufflers themselves and their core designs.

That's my rainy saturday update during lunch. Drinking a new microbeer "knucklesandwhich" made by a local brewer who started in 2008! Bootlegger's beer from Tustin, Ca. only one city over from me! Cheers.
 
AS a muffler is ALWAYS a compromise of noise reduction versus power loss, there is NEVER 1 "right" muffler.

Ideally, turbo application would be no muffler (example, look under a stock SRT-4) mandrel bent, no muffler, just a stainless tip.

Now, FMVSS standard indicates 84, 86 or 90(possibly more variations) dB, xx feet behind vehicle, certain angle from tailpipes, and 1/2 the max engine RPM (redline) under 0 load conditions.

sounds good on paper, right?... but the unfortunate side is that cars NEVER run under 0 load conditions.(OK... down a steep hill) And noise complaints arise from noise on accelleration.(under load)

AS for the "right muffler" based on my application.... or anyones application shouldnt matter.... ATR had 2.5", 3" (duals) and either of those worked for 90% of the real driven cars out there.... WITHOUT knowing all the particulars of a combination....

I hope youre not implying to run a 4" Flowmaster muffler on a 2-1/2" system to compensate for the lack of efficient flow. THat would be like farting in a trash can.. It wouldnt sound any better and it would still sound like azz...
 
AS for the "right muffler" based on my application.... or anyones application shouldnt matter.... ATR had 2.5", 3" (duals) and either of those worked for 90% of the real driven cars out there.... WITHOUT knowing all the particulars of a combination....

I hope youre not implying to run a 4" Flowmaster muffler on a 2-1/2" system to compensate for the lack of efficient flow. THat would be like farting in a trash can.. It wouldnt sound any better and it would still sound like azz...

what is your combination including cat, I asked before n can't really move forward without it? Also do you have a noise limit you prefer? definitely not implying 4" on your daily haha dun know where that one came from but its okay the net is a funny place.
 
Trying to recall what FM pitched to us in the late 80's when I worked automotive retail, and from what my old mind can recall, it was under 10HP (7.7 or 5.5 comes to mind) over the OE setup.

Of course, I was just out of HS in that era and could not afford a car like a GN, not shuffling parts at a parts store here....

I did however pay a lot of attention to what the mfg's reps were saying regarding products and compared that to the real world experiences customers had.

Id still call that a long shot on a nearly stock car. The numbers im giving are from actual chassis dyno tests i did on my own car or witnessed done to other cars. Most were modified to give at least 200whp more than stock and still only gained minimal whp with ex changes or open exhaust. Keep in mind the boost often increases several psi opening the ex so you have to take that boost out to get an actual hp gain. Ive seen 6 psi gain with some ex systems with big hp cars. Surprisingly the hp gain was still minimal with open ex after dialing back the boost.
 
Id still call that a long shot on a nearly stock car. The numbers im giving are from actual chassis dyno tests i did on my own car or witnessed done to other cars. Most were modified to give at least 200whp more than stock and still only gained minimal whp with ex changes or open exhaust. Keep in mind the boost often increases several psi opening the ex so you have to take that boost out to get an actual hp gain. Ive seen 6 psi gain with some ex systems with big hp cars. Surprisingly the hp gain was still minimal with open ex after dialing back the boost.


Lets back up a bit.... FM's pitch was not for the extreme efforts we see a lot here, but honest, DD-type vehicles with pure basic bolt-ons. Lets remember that some are beginners to the TR world and while looking for "bang for the buck", not everyone wants a 10 second TR.

Now lets back up further... HOW MUCH WHP would you lose by bolting an OE exhaust on one of these cars?

FM did not supply ANY other supporting statements aregarding thier alleged HP gains regarding other changes.

So.. take a STOCK TR, unbolt the OE exhaust, and replace it with the predescribed FM system... what do you get? freer flowing enhaust, thus higher boost, and I doubt FM pulled boost to take away and HP gains they would show. If they gained a couple of PSI then they gained some HP as well.

Basic turbo (or all internal combustion engines) theory is faster in, faster out, make intake and exhaust less restrictive and you'll see HP increase, correct?
 
what is your combination including cat, I asked before n can't really move forward without it? Also do you have a noise limit you prefer? definitely not implying 4" on your daily haha dun know where that one came from but its okay the net is a funny place.


Put a variation of combinations together from a STOCK car with cat,

Mild bolt ons with cat, and without, 2-1/2 and 3" systems (lets say the car currently has ATRs on it and what FM you would replace them with that would outperform the ATRs

Extreme

Now, lets see the comparison of flow between each application and the specific muffler and characteristics of each.
 
I am pleased with my 3 muffler system. All stainless. Pit Bulls & an Ultraflow as a crossflow. All are straight thru designs.

I missed this post... how does the added ultraflow help with the drone?... is it gone?... This sounds resonable to reduce drone utilizing a 3rd muffler.

Pics?
 
You did not ask for an opinion and I'm not promoting anyone.
On a chance visit to KDK, in Orlando, Kevin noticed my exhaust. He swore to me it was worn out. I thought it just sounded cool having bouight it from the original ownwers in 02. After a passionate discussion, remember I thought it was cool, the car was put up on the lift to settle the matter. Low and behold, it was a mess. Kevin knows me pretty well and recommended a 2.5 dual exhaust by Pypes in SS.
My intentions have always been to improve the car as things wear out. So, while at it I asked him about a DP. He recommended a 3" THDP and a TurboTweak chip. I had a cold air intake already. I then asked why not 3" exhaust? He told me I would not like it because of the loudness. I agreed to 2.5" but I bought a 3.5" DP on this forum. The Pypes arrived and it looked good. The mufflers were straight through, from what I could tell looking through them. All was SS. With the DP came a cut out pipe.The Cat was eliminated.
The car now runs like a raped ape by my "butt dyno" The cops agree too cause I got my first speeding ticket ever and I'm 68. It sounds great too. My better half was impressed and she loves 70s Z28 Camaros. It runs so good I'm thinking of putting it on Kevin's dyno, to see officially how it improved.
BTW, upgraded my brakes since then. Gotta stop em before you can run em.
Happy Thanksgiving!
 
You did not ask for an opinion and I'm not promoting anyone.
On a chance visit to KDK, in Orlando, Kevin noticed my exhaust. He swore to me it was worn out. I thought it just sounded cool having bouight it from the original ownwers in 02. After a passionate discussion, remember I thought it was cool, the car was put up on the lift to settle the matter. Low and behold, it was a mess. Kevin knows me pretty well and recommended a 2.5 dual exhaust by Pypes in SS.
My intentions have always been to improve the car as things wear out. So, while at it I asked him about a DP. He recommended a 3" THDP and a TurboTweak chip. I had a cold air intake already. I then asked why not 3" exhaust? He told me I would not like it because of the loudness. I agreed to 2.5" but I bought a 3.5" DP on this forum. The Pypes arrived and it looked good. The mufflers were straight through, from what I could tell looking through them. All was SS. With the DP came a cut out pipe.The Cat was eliminated.
The car now runs like a raped ape by my "butt dyno" The cops agree too cause I got my first speeding ticket ever and I'm 68. It sounds great too. My better half was impressed and she loves 70s Z28 Camaros. It runs so good I'm thinking of putting it on Kevin's dyno, to see officially how it improved.
BTW, upgraded my brakes since then. Gotta stop em before you can run em.
Happy Thanksgiving!


^^^ Good post... and FWIW, this is what a lot of the readers are looking for... the best bang for the buck as things wear out.

We commonly hear about chip, injectors, DP, and there are variations... as with exhaust.
 
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