Vigilante 5 disc or PTC 9 1/2, what should I get?

[evil666]

I am changing the set-up on my car and will need a new convertor, but I am going crazy making a decision on which one to get between the ptc 9 1/2 or vigilante 5 disc. I need some opions from you guys on what I should get, and keep in mind that I am a street car that goes to the track a few times a year, I am not a weekend racer. I want a convertor that spools quickly and still pulls hard on the top end, and i know the vig would give me good mph on top end if I would lock it in third gear. The red stripe 12" convertor I was using in my current set-up would give me great 60ft times and 0% slippage when I would lock it in third gear but the bad part was that I would get 13 % slip if I wouldn't lock it.

This is going to be my new set-up: T-Top 86 Grand Nationals 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 23/21 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. Don't know about the cam yet, but I know it will be a flat tappet.

I want to run in the mid tens and hopefully one day in the low tens.

Thanks alot for your opions, it will be greatly apreciated.
Marco.

T-Top 86 Grand National 62000 km)
stock long block, stock suspension, 12 inch red stripe convertor (2800stall), te44, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost,( boost spike 28 psi in 1st gear), 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 42 ½ lbs 009 injectors, turbotweak alky chip with 23/21 timing, thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/50/15) 3720lbs race weight with driver. (Torque convertor locked only after car shifted in third), rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, comp cam 980 valve springs. Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust cut-out.
BEST E/T
60FT=1.53
1/8= 7.25
1/4= 11.48
MPH=120.82
BEST 60FT=1.52

I have a gen 2 with an extender chip and LS1 maf, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms. MT 275/60/15 drag radials. Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. I did't get a chance to try this set-up. Taking out the stock 109 block and replacing with a rebuilt 109 with 2 center billet main caps, and weisco forged pistons

 

[johnplogii]

I have run both and never could get the vig to last. I had it rebuilt 3 times with burnt clutches every time. The PTC in my car slips 3.5% and in my opinion is an excellent converter. Loose down low and tight up top.

John

 

[wickedtt]

I like the Vig 5 disk lockup, its been around a long time in alot of faster cars than yours.

 

[gn4u2c]

I have a 5 disc 0 pump vig in a 10 sec car for years it was great! sold it bought another car tossed the 9x11 that was in there for the same style vig picked up 2 mph I'm happy !:biggrin:

 

[Way2QWK]

I like my vigilante as well....except for the very anoying rattle at idle in park or neutral.

 

[johnplogii]

I like the Vig 5 disk lockup, its been around a long time in alot of faster cars than yours.

I guess I didn't realize that there were so many 9 sec cars successfully running the vigilante with no problems. Is this your setup?

 

[WhiteTType]

lock up vs. non lock up

I ran the Percision for years and only sent it back once for a rebuild. It saw many low 10 second and high 9 second passes. It's a good choice if you intend to spend equal time on the street and at the strip.

The PTC is a better strip only converter, hands down. It allows the turbo to spool much faster and, in my case, starts to tighten up around 5300 RPM to the point where the RPM difference between the PTC and Percision locked is negligible at the big end.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I am changing the set-up on my car and will need a new convertor, but I am going crazy making a decision on which one to get between the ptc 9 1/2 or vigilante 5 disc. I need some opions from you guys on what I should get, and keep in mind that I am a street car that goes to the track a few times a year, I am not a weekend racer. I want a convertor that spools quickly and still pulls hard on the top end, and i know the vig would give me good mph on top end if I would lock it in third gear. The red stripe 12" convertor I was using in my current set-up would give me great 60ft times and 0% slippage when I would lock it in third gear but the bad part was that I would get 13 % slip if I wouldn't lock it.

This is going to be my new set-up: T-Top 86 Grand Nationals 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 23/21 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. Don't know about the cam yet, but I know it will be a flat tappet.

I want to run in the mid tens and hopefully one day in the low tens.

Thanks alot for your opions, it will be greatly apreciated.
Marco.

T-Top 86 Grand National 62000 km)
stock long block, stock suspension, 12 inch red stripe convertor (2800stall), te44, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost,( boost spike 28 psi in 1st gear), 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 42 ½ lbs 009 injectors, turbotweak alky chip with 23/21 timing, thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/50/15) 3720lbs race weight with driver. (Torque convertor locked only after car shifted in third), rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, comp cam 980 valve springs. Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust cut-out.
BEST E/T
60FT=1.53
1/8= 7.25
1/4= 11.48
MPH=120.82
BEST 60FT=1.52

I have a gen 2 with an extender chip and LS1 maf, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms. MT 275/60/15 drag radials. Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. I did't get a chance to try this set-up. Taking out the stock 109 block and replacing with a rebuilt 109 with 2 center billet main caps, and weisco forged pistons

Either will work for you. Of course I like the non lock after running both of them myself. The 9.5 drives very well around town and slips very little at cruise. Everyone is happy with their on road behavoir. With the age of these cars every one of them need a good external cooler to maximize cooler flow and temp. It comes down to preference.

I always prefered to not depend on the lock-up to make the car work at the track.

 

[NCTURBOS]

Both Scott and Dusty offer up very good info. I have used the multi-disc in a few cars over the years with very good results at the track and on the street. I now have (3) PTC converters, bought from Dusty, in cars that are all performing nicely on the street. We have yet to have them at the track, which I am anxiously awaiting, but looking how well they are performing for others I have no doubts...!!

One more thing to add is that the PTC is much easier on the tranny, than the lock-up feature of the multi-disc. It could save you on the need for some of the billet internals in the tranny, as well as possible tranny failure.

The arrival of the PTC has definitely made the choice harder...


K.

 

[evil666]

Last week I was sure I wanted a PTC but then I got a bit confused because I read somewhere on this forum that Grumpy switched his 911 convertor for a PTC. It was written that he ran the same mph with the PTC and with the 911 not locked, which was 132 mph. With the 911 locked he ran 138 mph, so this really threw me off on my decission, now I was really confused.

Thanks alot for all your opions.
Marco.

T-Top 86 Grand National 62000 km)
stock long block, stock suspension, 12 inch red stripe convertor (2800stall), te44, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost,( boost spike 28 psi in 1st gear), 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 42 ½ lbs 009 injectors, turbotweak alky chip with 23/21 timing, thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/50/15) 3720lbs race weight with driver. (Torque convertor locked only after car shifted in third), rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, comp cam 980 valve springs. Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust cut-out.
BEST E/T
60FT=1.53
1/8= 7.25
1/4= 11.48
MPH=120.82
BEST 60FT=1.52

I have a gen 2 with an extender chip and LS1 maf, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms. MT 275/60/15 drag radials. Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. I did't get a chance to try this set-up. Taking out the stock 109 block and replacing with a rebuilt 109 with 2 center billet main caps, and weisco forged pistons

 

[bison]

Last week I was sure I wanted a PTC but then I got a bit confused because I read somewhere on this forum that Grumpy switched his 911 convertor for a PTC. It was written that he ran the same mph with the PTC and with the 911 not locked, which was 132 mph. With the 911 locked he ran 138 mph, so this really threw me off on my decission, now I was really confused.

The PTC that was in Grumpy's car was spec'd for a TSM car not Grumpy's car. It was thrown in there to try and was never spec'd for his combo. If he had one spec'd like the one i have slip would have been a lot lower. Mine was a little over 3% at 134mph. If you took the converter out of mine and threw it in there id bet it would be a lot closer than the one they have in there. I doubt you would gain 1 mph with a LU converter over mine. The LU converter would give up a lot when un-locked. Mph doesnt tell the whole truth either. You have to look at the 60', 330', eighth, and eighth mph.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Grumpy will be sending his back in for a stall change now that he has info from his car. I spoke with Russ about it in Reynolds.

 

[Russ Merritt]

Last week I was sure I wanted a PTC but then I got a bit confused because I read somewhere on this forum that Grumpy switched his 911 convertor for a PTC. It was written that he ran the same mph with the PTC and with the 911 not locked, which was 132 mph. With the 911 locked he ran 138 mph, so this really threw me off on my decission, now I was really confused.

Little pieces of glass.........

Evil666, what did it say after that? Do you remember or is that where you stopped with your hand over your mouth in shock/terror

Then I said " We got some data on it, we'll send it back to Dusty to adjust it and I'm sure he'll nail it" That's how converters work guys. It's why most converter companies offer a free stall speed adjustment, god forbid it's not nailed on the first attempt......... It's the resposibilty of owning/RACING a performance car. If your not ready for those resposibilities, buy a Cadillac....They have good fuel pumps I hear their lifters are nice a quiet too! Some of you guys will sleep better at night......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

We're going to run the PTC 9.5 and get it right to race and see if we can pick up over the 9/11...... I'm quite curtain we can, every record setting Buick runs a PTC race non lock-up and a Precision turbo Unfortunately we don't like the non lock-ups for driving, on the highway, it's like loosing a gear. After racing the non lock-up will come out and the lock-up goes back in......Oh well....

IMO,
If we had to pick ONE converter, one choice, race/drive everything all in one.............The PTS billet 9/11 wins hands down. It takes a unbelievable beating, ours slipped about 10% unlocked which is respectable agaist some of the junk that's out there and locked up tight @ WOT time and time and time again.....It's never been back to be adjusted or for sevice since purchased.....

FYI
I'm not trying to hurt feelings here!! Evil666 this isn't aimed at you dude. In general, seems like a lot of you guys are lookin for a magic part that's gonna make things all better. People with 13,12,11 sec cars that go to the track a hand full of times in it's life lookin to buy a killer RACE converter..... Unless your blowing through your converter, an ultra high effecient 9.5 PTC RACE non lock-up isn't going to find the missing 3/4 - 1+ seconds off your et. Lots of you guys have so much left with what you have, find it instead of droppin another grand on something that you don't need......I know that's bad for business but..........

 

[BEATAV8]

I prefer the PTC over the vigilante for these reasons:

1. PTC pulls the engine down hard on the shifts. 800-1000RPM typical when it's matched correctly. A Vigilante cannot do this and still build boost at the line. My 32-3400 stall Vig only pulled down 4-500RPM on the shifts.
2. Due to better coupling, PTC shifts at much higher MPH than the vigilante. This provides more time / distance in lower gears with superior mechanical advantage. This is a real ET improver. My 2-3 shift @ ~5800RPM went from 55MPH with a Vig to +75MPH with a PTC.
3. The lockup on the multidisc vigilante is very harsh. This pulls the engine down way too hard (usually out of the power band or nearly out of the power band) and is also a good way to break hard parts in the trans. A 1500RPM stretch on a hard lock-up is typical.

My PTC is just a tad loose (17 blade), so my slip is at 7% through the traps. I considered tightening to a 16 blade but it's really not worth the bother just to make the math look better. It wouldn't really make the car any quicker.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

[/quote] Lots of you guys have so much left with what you have, find it instead of droppin another grand on something that you don't need......I know that's bad for business but..........[/QUOTE]

May be bad for business but in the long run customers will respect you more for it.

 

[mturbo87]

Put the vigalante in, ran one for 7 years, was very good to me, It took a **** when the car went 10.20. You said 10.50 was your goal, a non-lock up will suck on the street. I have a 5 disc 0 I ran for 3 passes. 650+ shipping. It spooled my turbo (70 gtq) with no problem. Have big cam and engine needs rpms. Went to ProTourqe converter and have not tested yet. Im not a salesman, speeking from exp. If your going to go faster a non lockup is your best bet. When the vigalante locks at higher rpms and faster et's, its done.

 

[Jerryl]

........... Lots of you guys have so much left with what you have, find it instead of droppin another grand on something that you don't need......I know that's bad for business but..........

True, and agree 100%
Here is my story .........

A while ago, I contacted Dusty on a converter.
Dusty told me, that at my power level (16 seconds ), he would not recommend his converter.
Well, sure it's bad for business, but, when I get to 15 seconds (Watch out!! ), I will call him again to see if he can get me going.

All the real life experiences from many people I talked to are positive with the PTC converter.
No one has ever (to my knowledge) put in a PTC and taken it back out because they were unhappy with the service and performance.
Can tell you how much I appreciate Dusty's honesty!

 

[87WE4BOOSTED]

Subscribed.:biggrin:

 

[Otto J]

No one has ever (to my knowledge) put in a PTC and taken it back out because they were unhappy with the service and performance.
Can tell you how much I appreciate Dusty's honesty!

There have been some removed because people were not happy with there performance.
The difference is that Dusty wasn't the one who spec'd
them out.
You want a PTC convertor and want it right call Dusty direct and order one,the PTC convertors are really combo specific and he knows what works and will not guess at what you need.

 

[JDSfastGN]

I recently installed a PTC 9.5" converter from Dusty and so far I am very happy with it. According to my new powerlogger it stalls at 2960 at right before it hit .3 psi of boost. It dropped from 5750 to 4800 on the 2-3 shift as well. He spec'd it to a 3000 stall so it doesn't get much closer than that. I will give a track update as last time out on my old converter unlocked it would only do 119 (lockup stopped holding). I'm hoping to regain some of my mph. I do have a soft spot for the 9/11 converters. I had one for years before a broken OD planetary sent crap in and ruined it. My dads 86 has a billet 9/11 that is on the very loose side, but the l/u holds strong and it has quite a bit of miles and passes on it.