Time to go to a dual nozzle setup?

[BuickMike]

I'll probably just email Julio directly on this one, but I figured I'll post here and see too. I have my car dialed in pretty well, however I'm thinking I'm running right at the edge of what my alky setup will support. Right now I have a single M15 nozzle on my alkycontrol system. My mods are below, but I have 60lb injectors running 70% duty cycle on pump gas and methanol at 22-23psi. I'm guessing I'm roughly in the mid-upper 500hp range. I haven't run it super hard at the track, but can damn near hit 120 on street tires with a 1500-2000ft DA. I have the dial on the controller knob set between 7 and 8, and the initial setting is set to start the pump out at 5v right now. It is really dialed in and AFR is solid at 10.9-11.0, but I run 20 / 18 degrees timing. Anything more will start to give a couple knock counts.
So all that being said, it runs great, but it seems like there is no room for growth with the single nozzle setup and based on a couple calculations I found online, the numbers show that the single M15 setup is topped out.

So....is it time to think about a dual M10 setup down the road if I decide to push more air through this thing with a bigger turbo or more boost?

 

[bison]

I wouldn't even consider it till you are trapping 132-133mph. We regularly run 130+ with one. 15gph nozzle. On a solid dialed in setup id go 135-136mph on one 15gph nozzle. More is not better. I went 127+ on an old smc with much lower pressure than razors kit with no problems and I ran on the same engine for a few years.

 

[Sydwyndr]

Cars have run 9's at 135+ on a single M15 so i wouldn't

 

[BuickMike]

Good to know. I guess I figured that maybe I was maxing my setup out based on how I have it all set. Were the higher trap speeds you all mentioned run on pump gas?

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[bison]

Good to know. I guess I figured that maybe I was maxing my setup out based on how I have it all set. Were the higher trap speeds you all mentioned run on pump gas?

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93 octane out of a gas station pump

 

[huntsg]

Good information because I was wondering the same.

 

[BuickMike]

I wish we had 93 here. I put 93 in my gn once. I was able to add 4 psi of boost on my street chip. I may need to put a pressure gauge on my pump and verify psi at some point.

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[Razor]

If the Gain is on position 8, air fuel is where it needs to be.. you get some knock, then go ahead add the second and back it down to 5.5-6 ad go from there.

Every engine is different

 

[BuickMike]

Thanks Julio. I'll keep that in mind. Unfortunately I need to compensate a bit more for the crappy gas we have here. 91 octane E10 vs. straight 93 in my experience is a huge difference. Frome what I've seen, 93 octane users can get away with 3 degrees more timing than me on alky with the same WOT AFR. Makes me want to seriously consider E85, but unfortunately the lack of gas stations selling it keeps me away.

 

[Pronto]

Julio would that be the single M15 and the second is M10?

 

[Razor]

You can add the 10 nozzle and see how it goes..

 

[BuickMike]

I would just do dual m10's if I went this route. I already have a spare m10.

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[KEVINS]

I would just do dual m10's if I went this route. I already have a spare m10.

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Mike,
When I still had my GN I was using a M10 and I was running 35psi on 87oct with no knock and I believe timing was 18*. My engine was a stock long block but the heads were fully ported so our combos are fairly close (minus cams). I never did run it but it was 10 second capable if everything worked like it should.

For comparison: My current car (Mustang) makes 720hp @ 18psi and I run a single M15 with 87oct and no knock (Safe Guard Knock Detector). The knob is at #6 for this combo. I have to run at least 13psi of boost (approx. 550hp) with this car or the alchy floods the engine even with the knob turned down to 3. I'm hoping to run very low 9's at 150 with more boost and a retune next year.

ks

 

[BuickMike]

Damn!!! 35psi? I think I need to try adding more fuel until it richens up to 10.7 or 10.6 and pull the alky back a hair and see what happens.

 

[KEVINS]

Damn!!! 35psi? I think I need to try adding more fuel until it richens up to 10.7 or 10.6 and pull the alky back a hair and see what happens.

To help me tune the alchy I was also using an audible knock detector. I would start with the alchy on the rich side then while making a test run in high gear I would slowly turn the knob down just until I hear the beeper chirp then I would turn it back up a tad. A few more test blasts verified that the beeper never went off again.

I love having a beeper to listen for. I'm having one custom made for my Mustang and the Safe Guard knock detector kit I installed in it.

ks

 

[BuickMike]

I have a caspers knock gauge on the piller that I rely on. Any less alky right now and I go lean and knock. I'll play with more fuel at some point and see how it goes.

Julio, what psi is the pump supposed to run at with the dial at 8 BTW?

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[we4Mateo]

Mike,
When I still had my GN I was using a M10 and I was running 35psi on 87oct with no knock and I believe timing was 18*. My engine was a stock long block but the heads were fully ported so our combos are fairly close (minus cams). I never did run it but it was 10 second capable if everything worked like it should.

For comparison: My current car (Mustang) makes 720hp @ 18psi and I run a single M15 with 87oct and no knock (Safe Guard Knock Detector). The knob is at #6 for this combo. I have to run at least 13psi of boost (approx. 550hp) with this car or the alchy floods the engine even with the knob turned down to 3. I'm hoping to run very low 9's at 150 with more boost and a retune next year.

ks

Every engine is different. You are the only person that I've EVER heard of getting away with just an M10 at 35psi, and at 87 octane at that. My TE44, like yours, runs out of steam at 29psi, gate wired shut, but my heads are touched up. The stock longblock must flow pretty poorly to get 35psi out of it. Is that gate wired shut too or what were you using for boost control at that level?

 

[BuickMike]

Dang. I go lean at anything over 22-23psi. I really need to bump the fuel up and see if I can go richer with more fuel and less alky with no knock. If that is the case, I'm curious to see what happens if I can get 25-27psi and a couple more degrees out of this thing. MUHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAA!!!!!!

 

[KEVINS]

Every engine is different. You are the only person that I've EVER heard of getting away with just an M10 at 35psi, and at 87 octane at that. My TE44, like yours, runs out of steam at 29psi, gate wired shut, but my heads are touched up. The stock longblock must flow pretty poorly to get 35psi out of it. Is that gate wired shut too or what were you using for boost control at that level?

An M10 is nothing for 500HP no matter how much boost is being measured b/c the car is still only using enough air for 500hp. When I was buying Julios kit for the Mustang he mentioned that a M10 is maxed out around 700 and suggested I go with a M15. I'm sure Julio will correct me if I'm wrong.

My heads were ported also with stock valves but still using stock cam. I used a VERY VERY strong spring and the below boost controller. I kept increasing boost from 24psi all the way up to 35psi and every time I added a few psi the power was incredible. It never did feel like this 5831 was out of steam on my combo.

http://turboxs.com/shop/boost-controllers/135-high-perfomance-boost-controller.html

I had a lot of PM's and emails from people that had pushed the TE44 way beyond 30psi and one gent was running 38psi in 1-2 then falling down to 35psi in high gear. Unfortunately those people who don't follow the norm get bashed so they keep their thoughts to themselves. Mines not a TE44 but they are "supposed" to be close but I really wonder how close/different the Precision 5831 is to the TE44. I have a complete writeup on the Precision 5831 turbo in the turbo section.
IMO, you HAVE to log fuel psi and boost when pushing the envelope. I found issues that had to be fixed but once I got them under control the car was very predictable. I wrote about all my issues in the forums and I learned from those issues and corrected them on the Mustang.

ks

 

[Sweet6]

Did you do a full pass at the track at 35lbs?

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