Propane
- Thread starter 86gn
- Start date
fast eddie
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2002
Come on you guys lets here about the propaine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
turbot2112
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2001
yea, what he said
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
I dont really expect you are going to see much feedback because we have only sold 2 kits to Buick people. Dan McDonald installed one on a car (See thread here for pictures) and one other guy bought one and last I heard from him was the car was at his mechanic getting the kit installed.
Except for those 2 sales, all the other sales have been to import guys. We have a dealer in New Mexico selling the crap out of the kits for the 3000GTs and some of the DSM guys have bought kits as well.
Brian Green bought one for his Syclone but I dont think he has done much testing yet.
Except for those 2 sales, all the other sales have been to import guys. We have a dealer in New Mexico selling the crap out of the kits for the 3000GTs and some of the DSM guys have bought kits as well.
Brian Green bought one for his Syclone but I dont think he has done much testing yet.
Red Canyonero
New Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I ran it on my truck once so far, and the results were promising. I did a few blasts at 20psi, only with a couple degrees of knock retard showing at the initial stab, and decaying the whole run. The truck will definitely show more knock than that with pump gas, I'd see 8-10 degrees of retard at 17-18psi on 93 octane before.
It's getting cold (and rainy) around here, and I installed a bottle heater to keep the pressure up. Unfortunately it stopped working, and I'm waiting on a new one, so I can have consistent bottle pressure while I am testing. During the short time I used it, I saw the pressure in the tank drop from 106 to like 88psi, after a few spurts of it. This was in 35-40 degree weather.
The kit is really nice, and offers some great adjustability.
One thing worth noting is that the turn on of the propane is really invisible compared to alcohol. In the installs of alky I've done, if you do a test shot of it, or turn it on too early, you'd really notice. I had the propane set at a high duty cycle, and the turn on set low (while I was adjusting it), like 2-3psi... propane came on, and I just barely noticed it. Once I turned the turn on point a bit higher, it was really transparent.
Anyways, I'm waiting for a new tank heater, and some dry streets, before I do more testing. I should have some wideband 02 data to go with it as well, which will be valuable since from my reading, the sensor works fine with the propane, just have different air-fuel ratios to shoot for.
I'll post here when I have some more info, I'll play with it more in the next week or so, weather permitting.
This directory has some pictures of my setup installed, and the rest are the pics Jay has posted before. http://www.chitownsyty.com/bg/pics/propain/
Oh yeah, FYI, it cost $4.65 to have my tank filled
That is so much nicer than $5-8 bucks a gallon for race gas.
It's getting cold (and rainy
) around here, and I installed a bottle heater to keep the pressure up. Unfortunately it stopped working, and I'm waiting on a new one, so I can have consistent bottle pressure while I am testing. During the short time I used it, I saw the pressure in the tank drop from 106 to like 88psi, after a few spurts of it. This was in 35-40 degree weather.The kit is really nice, and offers some great adjustability.
One thing worth noting is that the turn on of the propane is really invisible compared to alcohol. In the installs of alky I've done, if you do a test shot of it, or turn it on too early, you'd really notice. I had the propane set at a high duty cycle, and the turn on set low (while I was adjusting it), like 2-3psi... propane came on, and I just barely noticed it. Once I turned the turn on point a bit higher, it was really transparent.
Anyways, I'm waiting for a new tank heater, and some dry streets, before I do more testing. I should have some wideband 02 data to go with it as well, which will be valuable since from my reading, the sensor works fine with the propane, just have different air-fuel ratios to shoot for.
I'll post here when I have some more info, I'll play with it more in the next week or so, weather permitting.
This directory has some pictures of my setup installed, and the rest are the pics Jay has posted before. http://www.chitownsyty.com/bg/pics/propain/
Oh yeah, FYI, it cost $4.65 to have my tank filled
That is so much nicer than $5-8 bucks a gallon for race gas.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
I assume thats the gauge we were talking about last week? I have talked to Dan and he is going to carry that piece as an option. Dunno if I would have replaced the inlet gauge with it (Makes it hard to adjust by yourself in the rear) but looks like it turned out okay.
I dont know exactly what jet sizing Dan ended up shipping with the retail kit but if you have something around a 90ish, try that out next time out.
I'm also glad you noted that the transitional point is almost non existent. That's one of the big things I noticed over alcohol. Kenny Brown had his kit coming on at 8 PSI with a huge jet in the thing and you couldn't tell it.
I dont know exactly what jet sizing Dan ended up shipping with the retail kit but if you have something around a 90ish, try that out next time out.
I'm also glad you noted that the transitional point is almost non existent. That's one of the big things I noticed over alcohol. Kenny Brown had his kit coming on at 8 PSI with a huge jet in the thing and you couldn't tell it.
Red Canyonero
New Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Yep that's the gauge. It is bright, but it is difficult to read at bad angles, so I have yet to finish mounting it nicely, as mounting it to the windshield makes it annoying to read. A little angle shim and it will be great, very small, easy to read.
I just swapped in the largest jet, like you recommended. I believe an 81 ? There were 5 included, between 68 and 81 maybe.
Dunno if I would have replaced the inlet gauge with it (Makes it hard to adjust by yourself in the rear) but looks like it turned out okay.
The way I understand it, the inlet pressure is basically to tell your bottle level via tank pressure, and then you'd adjust your outlet (line) pressure with the regulator. Meaning, leave the tank fully open, and read the inlet pressure for bottle level, and to monitor pressure in the cold. Am I missing something ?
I just swapped in the largest jet, like you recommended. I believe an 81 ? There were 5 included, between 68 and 81 maybe.
Dunno if I would have replaced the inlet gauge with it (Makes it hard to adjust by yourself in the rear) but looks like it turned out okay.
The way I understand it, the inlet pressure is basically to tell your bottle level via tank pressure, and then you'd adjust your outlet (line) pressure with the regulator. Meaning, leave the tank fully open, and read the inlet pressure for bottle level, and to monitor pressure in the cold. Am I missing something ?
Red Canyonero
New Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Ok, gotcha.
Just to clarify the bottle & line pressure numbers, for me as well as others reading.
Line pressure is tuneable via the regulator, and guys have used 80-150psi
Tank pressure is what I'm concerned with, and I may just have to experiment.
What pressure is too low? Below whatever I've tuned the pressure at?
What pressure should I turn my heater off at?
In the current temperatures (high 30s to 50s) I'm seeing 100-110psi, and it went down to high 80s after I used it.
side note - found a bottle heater local, should be able to do some testing this weekend, wooohooo
Just to clarify the bottle & line pressure numbers, for me as well as others reading.
Line pressure is tuneable via the regulator, and guys have used 80-150psi
Tank pressure is what I'm concerned with, and I may just have to experiment.
What pressure is too low? Below whatever I've tuned the pressure at?
What pressure should I turn my heater off at?
In the current temperatures (high 30s to 50s) I'm seeing 100-110psi, and it went down to high 80s after I used it.
side note - found a bottle heater local, should be able to do some testing this weekend, wooohooo
I have had the second prototype kit that Jay did on my car for a little over 8 months now. I just refilled the tank last week ($6) after between 60 and 80 passes of strip and street testing. The car is also driven on the street a couple of times a week with the tank on.
We have tried lots of combinations of tank pressure, jet size, and boost levels for the system to come on. I can run around 23 to 24 lbs of boost with Turbo Link showing "0" knock counts. I used to get some knock counts on the way up to max boost, but the bigger jets solved this problem. This is with 93 octane gas and a Jay Carter 93 octane street (non-Variable Timing) street chip.
I have picked up almost 3 MPH in track testing over my previous street setup of a Variable Timing street chip and 20 lbs of boost. I have not run the car with race gas and a race chip to see how it compares, but will be doing so soon.
My setup is stock 100,000 mile long block, PT-51, THDP, 009's, stock IC w/big neck, ATR 2 1/2" exhaust. With my previous setup and good (not great) launches it was a consistant 12.60 car. In track testing the propane, I never worked on getting a good 60' time so I really can't give a good ET comparison. I did run a best of 12.47 with propane and a high 1.8 60' compared to a best of 12.53 and a 1.65 60' with my old setup. On my car 1/10th in the 60' yields 2/10th's at the big end, so THEORETICALLY, I would be running 12-teens with the addition of Jay's propane kit and my good launches.
We have tried lots of combinations of tank pressure, jet size, and boost levels for the system to come on. I can run around 23 to 24 lbs of boost with Turbo Link showing "0" knock counts. I used to get some knock counts on the way up to max boost, but the bigger jets solved this problem. This is with 93 octane gas and a Jay Carter 93 octane street (non-Variable Timing) street chip.
I have picked up almost 3 MPH in track testing over my previous street setup of a Variable Timing street chip and 20 lbs of boost. I have not run the car with race gas and a race chip to see how it compares, but will be doing so soon.
My setup is stock 100,000 mile long block, PT-51, THDP, 009's, stock IC w/big neck, ATR 2 1/2" exhaust. With my previous setup and good (not great) launches it was a consistant 12.60 car. In track testing the propane, I never worked on getting a good 60' time so I really can't give a good ET comparison. I did run a best of 12.47 with propane and a high 1.8 60' compared to a best of 12.53 and a 1.65 60' with my old setup. On my car 1/10th in the 60' yields 2/10th's at the big end, so THEORETICALLY, I would be running 12-teens with the addition of Jay's propane kit and my good launches.
fast eddie
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2002
ttt
Red Canyonero
New Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Same cheap stuff you see everywhere, i filled mine at a hardware store.
Only trick is to find places that do refills, not exchange. Not that hard to do, but the exchange only stuff is becoming more and more common.
My testing - my truck is experiencing some knock retard, and I've currently turned the propane off until I solve it. Interestingly enough, some Syty's that have used the proven SMC kit experienced results similar to what I have been seeing (inconsistent knock retard) due to electrical issues. I have to clean up the knock retard issues before I do any more propane testing.
FWIW, an LS1 guy was using a propane kit on his supercharged setup, running a wideband and doing his own tuning. Adding propane to his already decently tuned car dropped his AFR a full point (from like 11.5 to 10.3 or something in that ballpark).
Only trick is to find places that do refills, not exchange. Not that hard to do, but the exchange only stuff is becoming more and more common.
My testing - my truck is experiencing some knock retard, and I've currently turned the propane off until I solve it. Interestingly enough, some Syty's that have used the proven SMC kit experienced results similar to what I have been seeing (inconsistent knock retard) due to electrical issues. I have to clean up the knock retard issues before I do any more propane testing.
FWIW, an LS1 guy was using a propane kit on his supercharged setup, running a wideband and doing his own tuning. Adding propane to his already decently tuned car dropped his AFR a full point (from like 11.5 to 10.3 or something in that ballpark).
1987BuickGrandN
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2002
"One thing worth noting is that the turn on of the propane is really invisible compared to alcohol. In the installs of alky I've done, if you do a test shot of it, or turn it on too early, you'd really notice." What is meant by this? What do you notice? I've never had alky or propane. Also "I'm also glad you noted that the transitional point is almost non existent. That's one of the big things I noticed over alcohol." With alcohol do you notice when it kicks in?
What makes propane injection better? Obviously more boost with less knock retard. Why? What are some of the pros and cons to propane injection? How does propane injection compare with alky injection. When i think propane, i think hot hazzard. Is this safe? Easy to use?
What makes propane injection better? Obviously more boost with less knock retard. Why? What are some of the pros and cons to propane injection? How does propane injection compare with alky injection. When i think propane, i think hot hazzard. Is this safe? Easy to use?
I have never run alcohol, so I cannot compare the two performance wise. I don't know what it feels like when alcohol injection gets activated, but I can tell you that Jay's propane kit can be tuned to where you cannot feel it's activation point. I had to install an LED light to the pressure switch to determine the "on" setting.
I run 24 lbs of boost on pump gas with Turbolink showing "0" knock counts. Again, I cannot personally compare this to alcohol kits currently available.
Time between refills is a big plus with propane. I had over 60 runs and lots of street drivng before I had to get my bottle refilled. It took me less that five minutes to take out the tank and to reinstall it. This is the prototype kit that is bolted to the "upper shelf" in my trunk. If the refill station had a 90 degree adapter the guy would have refilled the tank in my car, but I don't think they are supposed to. Cost was $6.
As far as it being a hazard, I admit it was a little weird at first to see the bottle in the trunk. These tanks are DOT approved and I would think, less vulnerable to a hit than the ones hanging below most motorhomes. After 8 months, I have no problems with it back there and no plans to remove it.
I run 24 lbs of boost on pump gas with Turbolink showing "0" knock counts. Again, I cannot personally compare this to alcohol kits currently available.
Time between refills is a big plus with propane. I had over 60 runs and lots of street drivng before I had to get my bottle refilled. It took me less that five minutes to take out the tank and to reinstall it. This is the prototype kit that is bolted to the "upper shelf" in my trunk. If the refill station had a 90 degree adapter the guy would have refilled the tank in my car, but I don't think they are supposed to. Cost was $6.
As far as it being a hazard, I admit it was a little weird at first to see the bottle in the trunk. These tanks are DOT approved and I would think, less vulnerable to a hit than the ones hanging below most motorhomes. After 8 months, I have no problems with it back there and no plans to remove it.
1987BuickGrandN
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2002
another question. does propane work like alky? cooling down the cylinder temp for less kr?
BoostKillsStres
TIRE-FRYER VIA HAIR-DRYER
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Downtown,
So how much timing are you running with the propane and who much boost and timing were you able to run before adding the kit?
So how much timing are you running with the propane and who much boost and timing were you able to run before adding the kit?
I am running a Jay Carter 93 octane street chip. WITHOUT propane, I can run 17 lbs of boost with Turbolink showing "0" knock counts using this chip. WITH propane, 24 lbs of boost with "0" knock counts.
I tried a JC Variable Timing chip (which I used to run at 20 lbs of boost before I added propane) and did not see any improvement. I also tried a 110 octane chip and got a lot of knock counts.
I tried a JC Variable Timing chip (which I used to run at 20 lbs of boost before I added propane) and did not see any improvement. I also tried a 110 octane chip and got a lot of knock counts.
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
Jay, I'm interested to hear initial reports/improvements relayed to you from the 3000GT crowd....Anything to report?
Just beginning to tune my car. After another turbo, injectors and some small things, I'll be at a decision point between Alchy and Propain kit....Leaning real far to the propain kit, with stock appearing a huge factor.
Thanks for keeping us in the loop
Just beginning to tune my car. After another turbo, injectors and some small things, I'll be at a decision point between Alchy and Propain kit....Leaning real far to the propain kit, with stock appearing a huge factor.
Thanks for keeping us in the loop
