Porting

[HOTSIX]

Guys...

Now that Turbomotion no longer exists as an option for increasing performance of my car....I want to port and polish a set of stock heads then port out a stock intake to improve flow.

I know some guys on here have ported their heads and intakes and have gotten good results....

Ive spent the money on a TA-33 turbo from John Craig but it seems that my stock intake is wayyy too restrictive to make it work well since the 33's CFM's are at least 2X the stock turbo....

I'm not feeling the performance I should from this car....(a chip would prob help too)

How do you know how much to port out of each runner and where ?

Do I need someone with a flowbench to ensure I port out the same amount in each runner to each cyl ???

How the heck do ya take on a project like this ? Where do you start...?????

 

[Joe 1320]

While this isn't Buick specific, it will give you a start. .......

http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.htm

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Does anyone have the cfm per runner of the stock hot air intake?

 

[6PacktoGo]

It's in the high 170s or low 180s.

My new modified hot air intake will be available soon, our ported heads are available now. We'll be doing things a little different than most. We'll only sell heads and intakes on an exchange basis, but we have cores to modify. We will only accept orders when we have completed parts IN STOCK AND READY TO SHIP. We will take neither your money or your cores unless we have parts to ship you immediately. Our flow numbers will be posted soon, and pictures will be available for email. My intake will have a stock location inlet, and the top will look (and be) stock, I'm not building intakes for add on intercooler kits.

 

[turbo6x2]

Actually you just needed them ported. If you just would like to know what that costs with excellent turn around time get in touch with iwinegineering.com they ported a stock intake for me and the car is running excellent. Should have times to post soon.

 

[TType85]

Originally posted by 6PacktoGo
It's in the high 170s or low 180s.

My new modified hot air intake will be available soon, our ported heads are available now. We'll be doing things a little different than most. We'll only sell heads and intakes on an exchange basis, but we have cores to modify. We will only accept orders when we have completed parts IN STOCK AND READY TO SHIP. We will take neither your money or your cores unless we have parts to ship you immediately. Our flow numbers will be posted soon, and pictures will be available for email. My intake will have a stock location inlet, and the top will look (and be) stock, I'm not building intakes for add on intercooler kits.

I thought it was actually lower than that. 140's or so. THe stock 86/7 intake is only 180's-190's. The TM setup I had was 230-232CFM per runner....

 

[WFO]

Originally posted by 6PacktoGo
It's in the high 170s or low 180s.

My new modified hot air intake will be available soon, our ported heads are available now. We'll be doing things a little different than most. We'll only sell heads and intakes on an exchange basis, but we have cores to modify. We will only accept orders when we have completed parts IN STOCK AND READY TO SHIP. We will take neither your money or your cores unless we have parts to ship you immediately. Our flow numbers will be posted soon, and pictures will be available for email. My intake will have a stock location inlet, and the top will look (and be) stock, I'm not building intakes for add on intercooler kits.

alan,

as soon as you have pics/flow #'s/prices e-mail them to me please.

thanx,sean

 

[Black Cherry T]

6packtogo:
I'd be VERY interested in receiving further info from you too, when it's available. Please email me ASAP.

Thanks!

 

[HOTSIX]

6Packtogo

Hey.....now that's even better for me too....

I'd like to be in for that new intake .....

Put me in line with the boys above.

Please give me a ballpark for price and how long till I can see pics and flow numbers....

 

[HOTSIX]

Turbo6x2

What improvements did you see when you bolted the intake on ?

What did "I Win Engineering" do exactly to the EGR port, runners etc. ?

How much ?

 

[6PacktoGo]

My flow bench is down right now, and the only set of heads we have in stock will be on the customers engine by the weekend, before the bench is back up.

We won't have another set for about two weeks. I'll have a site up where I'll have pictures of the heads and the intakes soon. I'll offer to email them as soon as I have them, so you can get them quicker.

We are working on some air distribution problems we heard about on the Turbomotion/S&S intake. The plenum on my version is smaller, so that boost will build faster, and pressure will be more equal from just the basic design. I do not want to rush this intake, I don't want them to get out with problems. In fact, I WON'T let them out if they aren't right.

I'll try to have prices this week, and pictures by next week. The heads are no big deal, but the intake is not perfected yet.

I currently have three intake cores to start with, and I'm going to get some more. We have 6 sets of VIRGIN heads, they've never even had a valve job until now.

I'm doing the intakes on an Enco mill and using an ESAB Heliarc, the cylinder head guy is doing the ports on the intakes.

The heads will include Ferrea 6000 series stainless valves, chrome moly retainers, machined keepers, phosphor/ manganese/bronze guide liners, new springs (to match the customers cam) and two options on valve seals. The valve job and seat work are done on a guide and seat machine with three angle carbide cutters and broaches, for accuracy and consistency.

 

[FJM568]

Alan, have you figured out any way to check the flow to each individual port on the intake at the same time(all six at once, i.e., 300 cfm into the intake manifold, evened out to 50 cfm at each runner, so that you don't have 1 or more cyls leaner or richer than the others???) (btw, the 300 cfm is just a number pulled out of thin air, not an actual reading)

I believe that that is what Race Jace did when flowing his PowerPlate...

Just seeing what you came up with since we last emailed each other...

 

[6PacktoGo]

I've got some ideas Jim, but I haven't verified it as of yet. I'm not sure what my flowbench is capable of, that's one reason it is down right now.

I looked at Jason's site, and he said he was using a 250MPH airflow generator of some sort. I certainly don't have one of those.

 

[TType85]

Originally posted by 6PacktoGo
I looked at Jason's site, and he said he was using a 250MPH airflow generator of some sort. I certainly don't have one of those.

You probably DO have a 250mph airflow generator

Saw it at the nats.... it was a gas powerd leaf blower.... you could feel the air flow even out with the powerplate.

Chris

 

[HOTSIX]

Okay...by now i'm drooling about this intake...and maybe even the heads.

I got my refund from Turbomotion in the bank...and its burning a hole in it.

I'd love to see some numbers and results from a customer's car.....

How long 'till we get some action ?

 

[6PacktoGo]

Send me an email address, I sent some pics out last night. Just heads, since I'm not finished with the intake plenum, but the head pics should give you an idea what the work looks like. I think I'll have some intake pics in a little over a week, I have three engines to dyno in the next week, which is why I'm not going to Bristol, I'm working all weekend. We've had several requests for numbers and pics, so we're going to do another set of heads, and get the flow bench up while they're still here. The set in the pics went on an engine two weeks ago. They'll have it in soon, and we'll have their thoughts soon after. They have two cars, one of them has a "reputation" and will make a good yardstick.

 

[6SENSE]

We are working on some air distribution problems we heard about on the Turbomotion/S&S intake.

Alan, wondering which intake you are refering to. Is this the hotair (V1) intake that has the open plenum?

Im wondering because that is the intake that I have, and I have had a terrible time tuning this car. Havent given up yet, but I am tired of not being able to get out of the 14's with this thing! I have trouble with topend, cant get over 94-96mph and problem with running rich on lowend (have to turn FP as low as 32psi to try to compensate).
My mods and tuning should have this thing performing alot better than that! Its almost as if something is hindering the car from being able to.

 

[6PacktoGo]

I heard, and won't mention from who, for obvious reasons, that there was a possible air distribution problem with their intake that kept the turbo in the stock location, on a car without an intercooler. I was asking around about the intake because I thought I saw a flaw, and got a couple replies that confirmed my suspicion. I think the plenum is shaped wrong and is too big. I suspect that it overcharges some cylinders. As far as versions go, I did not keep up with what they called their different versions. The one I was inquiring about was the open plenum version. From what I see in your signature, your car should run low 13s or around that. What I found out about the intake is not related to your fuel curve problems, at least I don't think it is. The intake shouldn't cause it to run rich on the low end. Does it lean out and detonate on the top?

 

[6SENSE]

The intake that you are describing is the one that I have.

As far as the car leaning out on the top end I'd have to say yes and no, it depends on what settings are, especially fp.
For the most part it tends to lean out on the top end, and is definately rich on lowend (2.1-2.3 is best 60 foot). The thing is it probably doest have enough fuel on top end because I always turn fp down so much to compensate for lowend ("leaner is meaner").
I raced last night. On my second run the car started hiccuping down the track. I know it was lack of fuel. Air was much colder. After leaving the track I turned fp up and got rid of the hicupping.

Another bit of info that really stands out is that I am able to run very high amounts of boost with this very low fp. I dont know why (maybe the air just isnt pushing through the intake right?). I can run about 25-26 psi boost with 93 oct and fp as low as 32 static. Only time I usually get alot of KR is when I try to downshift hard on the highway.

This car has been a nightmare to tune, as if something is just holding it back. It usually doesnt matter what fp or boost is set at, the car will run the same #s in the 1/4 ! I have ran identical runs with 15 psi as with over 20 psi boost! Both of my runs last night were 14.77.
I have also tried running with and without the alky/h20 also. I know some would say I should probably just leave it off and introduce it to the setup after getting it to perform, but getting it perform is easier said than done. Besides, Im moving towards just spraying h20. There will be no alky, which might affect air/fuel ratio. Spray is solely to cool intake aircharge, and I would think I should be tuning with this component on as if it were a intercooler. I dont think anyone takes off their intercoolers to get their cars running right first .

Not trying to make this a "help me figure out my stupid car" session but it caught my eye when you mentioned my intake, since I am currently clueless of why my car acts the way it does. Something just isnt doing right in this setup. I have a pretty good understanding of these cars and tuning, I have been able to successfully tune other cars but not this one. I have not made much ground on 1/4 times since first running it last year. Best time with stock turbo = 14.5.@94 Best with TA33 = 14.2@96. All runs have been on street tires and 93 octane.
What worrys me most is mph, which I am wondering if is attributed to the intake. I should have plenty of top end with this setup, especially since fuel really isnt a problem and air SHOULDNT be a problem.
I am close to dissassembling the engine and putting all stock components (including stock intake) and starting from there, I dont really want to go through all that though. Note that I do have a '87 motor on the engine stand that needs to be gone through, but right now I am dedicated to getting this hotair motor to perform! I havent decided to sell out yet

Any thoughts?

P.S. Anyone else out there with this intake? How does your car perform?

 

[6PacktoGo]

I have some pictures of the heads, but not the intake

I won't be releasing intake pictures until it is well tested. If you are interested in the heads, and want pictures, email me at idoxlr8@earthlink.net . Be aware they are not the very best pictures in the world, and that they are quite a large download.

I will offer quotes on the heads by private email only, as I have not yet gotten the funds to purchase advertising space on this site, and I feel it would not be fair to Jason to effectively advertise without paying him. With the quality of the components and the work, they will not be cheap.

We are considering having a set of the heads flowed by an independant shop, so that the numbers will be verified by a third party with no interest. When we test them or have them tested, it will be a real world test, with a pressure of 28" of water over a calibrated orifice, with a 3.830" sleeve, not the 4" sleeve some use.

As the intake approaches the end of the development stages, I will give those interested an idea of the cost. They won't be cheap either, there is a great deal of intense machining and welding involved. I will not be attempting to recover the cost of development in sales of manifolds, I'm developing this for my own use, and selling them as a service. I've got enough hours in this thing I'll never recover the cost, the manifolds would not be affordable.