Opinions on the position of dual nozzles in the stock style up-pipe

2QUIK6

Turbo Milk Jug displacmnt
Getting ready to install a second nozzle in my up-pipe. Its a stock style 3" up-pipe and the first nozzle is located just past the bend about 3.5-4" from the TB.

Should I install the 2nd nozzle directly across 180 degress from the 1st, or make it a half inch or so off-set but 180 degrees from the first?
Was thinking if they are directly across from each other then the spray will collide in the center and be concentrated there which may not be so good...under boost it's hard to tell what would happen.
 

2QUIK6

Turbo Milk Jug displacmnt
Wanting to go faster? :D
Well more like go fast safely, the single nozzle was cranked full blast and got a tiny bit of knock that the ECM didn't interpret as knock at 22 degrees and 22psi. The 60# inj were also at 82% at 11.1AFR. Going bigger everything now :D And all that was with the little 6131 turbo! The 6466 is on, but still waiting for some 4" ducting and some stuff from Bob B.
 

bison

Moderator
Staff member
We've made 9 sec power on several cars with the flow of one 15gph nozzle at 175+psi. I've seen more lean out because of excessive fuel entering the back of the engine than good it does. Look for a fuel delivery problem because you have one if your at 82% and using Alky with those injectors and a turbo that all in falls of a cliff at 57lbs/min. Last week I was able to make 600+whp on a single nozzle application and had Siemens Deka 60's which flow closer to 65lbs/hr at the pressures I ran and it was hovering around 90%dc and running much richer targets than 11:1 at 5600rpm in ok air. 3 years ago high 9's on Siemens 3145 at 45psi baseline single 15gph nozzle. Car made 580whp a week before on same time. DC never over 75% even at the highest rpm recorded the turbo was all in (6265). About 15 other cars in between there with similar power and various injectors and fuel consumption through injectors 300-320lbs/hr with the alky all trapping 105+ in the either and or 130+ in the quarter. Some have several minutes logged at these power levels with nothing done to the engines


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turbo2nr

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I always wondered if the Siemens injectors had better spray pattern and tighter tolerances and variations between each One?
Germans are pretty smart dudes!

Is Seimens worth the extra coin?
I am going from 60 to 80lb soon myself.

(Sorry to go a little off-topic here!)
 

2QUIK6

Turbo Milk Jug displacmnt
Not sure where to look for a fueling issue, fuel pressure is hitting 68 psi on 22 lbs of boost. 2 other local cars run similar times and had to go to 80# inj running single nozzle, they have an XFI setup compared to my Gen2 maft setup. Has a brand new DW pump in the tank. The injectors probably are about 10 years old with less than 10k miles on them, all cylinders seem to look ok at the plugs too.
 

greeneyegi

Well-Known Member
I run a close setup to you. I have had mine up to 28# with 91octane and alky and have never had my alky turned above a 5 with no real knock, except shift points. Standard timing in chip
Im stepping up to 120# injectors because i was 90%+ on the 60s.
I am turned so far down on alky I hope I wouldnt need to even think about another nozzle.
I would look at a fueling issue or alky issue.
How old is your alky setup
A local buddy had to upgrade his alky system because he was turned all the way up, alky, and was still getting knock. He was running a small turbo also.
Replaced to a newer setup and alky is down to 4
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Not sure where to look for a fueling issue, fuel pressure is hitting 68 psi on 22 lbs of boost. 2 other local cars run similar times and had to go to 80# inj running single nozzle, they have an XFI setup compared to my Gen2 maft setup. Has a brand new DW pump in the tank. The injectors probably are about 10 years old with less than 10k miles on them, all cylinders seem to look ok at the plugs too.
How many psi is the alky pump cranking?is the dw volt boosted?
 

2QUIK6

Turbo Milk Jug displacmnt
DW is hot wired. Could be the akly pump getting weak, I just sent it off to Julio for a rebuild and got it back this week. I did notice that my alky tank didn't seem to be emptying much when at the track...after 5 passes the tank might have dropped 1/2 inch. Pump was about 5 yrs old. Got a new inline filter also.
I think running at 80% DC was not leaving enough room for correction in case the alky pump stopped altogether, I would like it to have enough room to dump plenty of fuel into it even if it it 93 pump gas, it may buy me a split second to react. Not to mention I should be pushing alot more air with the PT6466 turbo going on.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
DW is hot wired. Could be the akly pump getting weak, I just sent it off to Julio for a rebuild and got it back this week. I did notice that my alky tank didn't seem to be emptying much when at the track...after 5 passes the tank might have dropped 1/2 inch. Pump was about 5 yrs old. Got a new inline filter also.
I think running at 80% DC was not leaving enough room for correction in case the alky pump stopped altogether, I would like it to have enough room to dump plenty of fuel into it even if it it 93 pump gas, it may buy me a split second to react. Not to mention I should be pushing alot more air with the PT6466 turbo going on.
93 just isn't enough octane even if you bury the Afr rich.i have been watching the alky pumps for a long time and i haven't seen them just stop working,they become lazy and drop off some pressure usually which is more than I can say for some intank pumps.years ago with a tnetics 64 billet I went over 135mph in the 1/4 at 3800+lbs on 60s and twin nozzle with a single pump,Afr was in the 9s.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Getting ready to install a second nozzle in my up-pipe. Its a stock style 3" up-pipe and the first nozzle is located just past the bend about 3.5-4" from the TB.

Should I install the 2nd nozzle directly across 180 degress from the 1st, or make it a half inch or so off-set but 180 degrees from the first?
Was thinking if they are directly across from each other then the spray will collide in the center and be concentrated there which may not be so good...under boost it's hard to tell what would happen.
I have mounted them in different places before.my friends car has them across from each other and it seems fine his put down 700rwhp,mine I like them staggered and not on top of each other.
 

2QUIK6

Turbo Milk Jug displacmnt
93 just isn't enough octane even if you bury the Afr rich.i have been watching the alky pumps for a long time and i haven't seen them just stop working,they become lazy and drop off some pressure usually which is more than I can say for some intank pumps.years ago with a tnetics 64 billet I went over 135mph in the 1/4 at 3800+lbs on 60s and twin nozzle with a single pump,Afr was in the 9s.
My only experience has been they just leak out all of the methanol after sitting through the pump head seal. I have a pressure gauge set up to test the pump, but since I never had an issue, I never tested it for the heck of it, so good to know that they start loosing pressure. I should have tested the old pump before sending it off since it was time.
Yeah I know 93 isn't enough, but maybe enough to get me a split second, never hurts to hope..and hope I never need the extra inj in that situation to boot.
 
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