Meet the new 3.8

[83turbomon]

So after talking with a fellow board member, i got my hands on an 87 t-type engine. It needs a few parts to get it running. Its got heads with new valves, 204/214 cam, oil pan, and a few extra parts that he is throwing in as well, brakes etc. The block has between 42-68,000 miles on it and looks to be in good shape.

THE REASON I didnt go with the 4.1 is that the 4.1 was already mildly built and running. it didnt make sense to tear down a running engine, to have it in pieces. Its not as strong as I would like it to be, and in order to make it a turbo engine would require more work than what I want to do such as reinforcing the block around the head bolts and other sh*t.

So as of now the block probably need to be honed, checked, and reassembled. Powder, a former board member has been nothing but patient and helpful with getting this engine and hooking me up with some contacts in order to get this engine running. He is running a 4.1 in his IC engine and made a good few reccomendations.

Since the block is sitting in my bedroom, i have a deadline in order to get this thing done... so if anyone has the following parts let me know...

86-87 headers
intake
turbo
crank
flywheel
bearing
journals
oiling cover
and possibly valve covers

let me know... this list may change.

Pics will come later...

 

[dr_frankenstein]

THE REASON I didnt go with the 4.1 is that the 4.1 was already mildly built and running. it didnt make sense to tear down a running engine, to have it in pieces. Its not as strong as I would like it to be, and in order to make it a turbo engine would require more work than what I want to do such as reinforcing the block around the head bolts and other sh*t.

...

this was a terrible statement.

fear of block breakage should be the last concern on your mind.

A.j.

 

[83turbomon]

this was a terrible statement.

fear of block breakage should be the last concern on your mind.

A.j.

the 4.1 costed alot more than I could afford as well. I know that the 4.1 and 3.8 parts are compatible, but with turbo parts/internals The blocks can tend to crack especially around the heads. Ive also done some reading that stated that in order to run a 4.1 turbo, the block itself needs to be reinforced around the head bolts. Fear of block breakage is my greatest fear because if it goes boom... im in big trouble. :redface:

 

[charlief1]

So if anyone has the following parts let me know...

86-87 headers
intake
turbo
crank
flywheel
bearing
journals
oiling cover
and possibly valve covers

let me know... this list may change.

Pics will come later...

Um... What are you planning kid? If this is a complete engine you already have the crank, rods, and pistons unless they're damaged. The later headers won't work on you car and if you're planning on going SFI IC then you'll be broke long before you get it done. Takes a lot of cash to and you'll need to change everything as far as wiring, fuel system, ect.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

the 4.1 costed alot more than I could afford as well. I know that the 4.1 and 3.8 parts are compatible, but with turbo parts/internals The blocks can tend to crack especially around the heads. Ive also done some reading that stated that in order to run a 4.1 turbo, the block itself needs to be reinforced around the head bolts. Fear of block breakage is my greatest fear because if it goes boom... im in big trouble. :redface:

true, but are you really planning on building more than 500 hp?

a 4.1 isnt an issue until you start making real power.


9 -times - out - of 10.......... most of the data found around here is from Arm Chair Warriors who are full of speculation and very little real experiance.

and the main reason for the deck failure of the 4.1 is because the threads come to the top of each stud bore. if you sink the threads in 1/8 of an inch... the issue drops until around 500 hp.

A.j.

 

[MNcarbturbo]

Well, its good you have a motor. But dont worry about intercooling or turning it into an SFI car!

Unbolt your trans and flywheel, unbolt the engine and pull it out. Put on the intake and headers on the long block, put the motor back in. Put on a Qjet in replace of the edel, hook up a MSD BTM, and drive. That way you have a vehicle that will be down for a short time relativly.

Is this motor assembled? Is the rods and crank in it? What all do you have? Really all you need is a block, heads, crank, rods, pistons, front cover, and gaskets and bearings. All the other stuff can come off your engine you have.

Get it running good before you go crazy.

 

[mat231v6]

the 4.1 costed alot more than I could afford as well. I know that the 4.1 and 3.8 parts are compatible, but with turbo parts/internals The blocks can tend to crack especially around the heads. Ive also done some reading that stated that in order to run a 4.1 turbo, the block itself needs to be reinforced around the head bolts. Fear of block breakage is my greatest fear because if it goes boom... im in big trouble. :redface:

you wont be laying down enough power to worry. not even enough boost to worry too. so did you get a 109 block? not to be mean but if the 4.1 was way to costly how are you going to do a blow thru setup thats going to cost you a bundle. if you would have got the 4.1 i have some 12:1 pistons that i would have sold you.

Well, its good you have a motor. But dont worry about intercooling or turning it into an SFI car!

Unbolt your trans and flywheel, unbolt the engine and pull it out. Put on the intake and headers on the long block, put the motor back in. Put on a Qjet in replace of the edel, hook up a MSD BTM, and drive. That way you have a vehicle that will be down for a short time relativly.

Is this motor assembled? Is the rods and crank in it? What all do you have? Really all you need is a block, heads, crank, rods, pistons, front cover, and gaskets and bearings. All the other stuff can come off your engine you have.

Get it running good before you go crazy.

i agree with you there. i even have a carbed turbo qjet for sale. the correct one he needs.

 

[justin84]

I have everything you need PM me

 

[83turbomon]

Im NOT going IC, but I would like to go blow through. Its not a complete block, but it does have slugs that will need new rings, new lifters, pushrods, 204/214 comp cam I think, heads, new valves, LOTS of valve springs, oil pan, and crank bearings. Im gonna do some looking around to see if i can find a forged crank in an old pontiac at the pull-a-part. Ive got some pics ill upload in a few hours, but its 4am, so im going back to bed.

 

[83turbomon]

Um... What are you planning kid? If this is a complete engine you already have the crank, rods, and pistons unless they're damaged. The later headers won't work on you car and if you're planning on going SFI IC then you'll be broke long before you get it done. Takes a lot of cash to and you'll need to change everything as far as wiring, fuel system, ect.

ive been planning on going with a B/T setup. IC is way too expensive. Im basically going to follow adams approach a bit with the engine. But first it needs to be checked and honed out by a machine shop.

 

[83turbomon]

Well, its good you have a motor. But dont worry about intercooling or turning it into an SFI car!

Unbolt your trans and flywheel, unbolt the engine and pull it out. Put on the intake and headers on the long block, put the motor back in. Put on a Qjet in replace of the edel, hook up a MSD BTM, and drive. That way you have a vehicle that will be down for a short time relativly.

Is this motor assembled? Is the rods and crank in it? What all do you have? Really all you need is a block, heads, crank, rods, pistons, front cover, and gaskets and bearings. All the other stuff can come off your engine you have.

Get it running good before you go crazy.

no flywheel, or intake. it not assembled either. it had about 62,000 miles on it and will need to be checked before built.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I have everything you need PM me

whatcha got man?

A.j.

 

[usetaboost]

Here's my response to this madness. If it runs, bolt your sh!t on it and GO! 62k is nothing on those motors. If he put a cam in it, I'm sure it has good valve springs. The 8445 heads will work just fine with your carb turbo intake. I would have someone knowledgeable do the rear main seal and pan gasket though. Nothing is different about those heads except the valve diameter for the most part. If you have to tear it down and rebuild it why the hell did you buy it? I don't know if you have looked at the cost of rebuild kits for the turbo engine but the 86-87 kit is way more expensive than the 85 and older due to the cometic head gaskets and other small differences. Pushrod length is also different due to the head gasket thickness. So if you use that motor you will either have to spend more money and use cometic head gaskets or use the older length pushrods.

There's plenty of people out there that practically give older 3.8 n/a motors away. Junkyards give complete motors for 100-150. The kits are under 400 bucks with tax or even cheaper sometimes. You would have less than 1000 into an older rebuild with all new stuff. Something to think about

 

[charlief1]

Im gonna do some looking around to see if i can find a forged crank in an old pontiac at the pull-a-part.

Pontiac and Buick are not even close kid. The Buick V6 never came from the factory with a forged crank and the stock one will do just fine for what you're going to do with her.

Here's my response to this madness. If it runs, bolt your sh!t on it and GO! 62k is nothing on those motors. If he put a cam in it, I'm sure it has good valve springs. The 8445 heads will work just fine with your carb turbo intake. I would have someone knowledgeable do the rear main seal and pan gasket though. Nothing is different about those heads except the valve diameter for the most part. If you have to tear it down and rebuild it why the hell did you buy it? I don't know if you have looked at the cost of rebuild kits for the turbo engine but the 86-87 kit is way more expensive than the 85 and older due to the cometic head gaskets and other small differences. Pushrod length is also different due to the head gasket thickness. So if you use that motor you will either have to spend more money and use cometic head gaskets or use the older length pushrods.

There's plenty of people out there that practically give older 3.8 n/a motors away. Junkyards give complete motors for 100-150. The kits are under 400 bucks with tax or even cheaper sometimes. You would have less than 1000 into an older rebuild with all new stuff. Something to think about

Gooa agree with the logic here except for the cometics. He really doesn't need them but he could do some of the RJC head gaksets. A slight increase in compression won't hurt a bid.:biggrin:

I agree that it needs to cleaned and checked but you really should just need bearings and rings along with a good honing. Then you should be able to put it together and go for it.

 

[83turbomon]

Pontiac and Buick are not even close kid. The Buick V6 never came from the factory with a forged crank and the stock one will do just fine for what you're going to do with her.



Gooa agree with the logic here except for the cometics. He really doesn't need them but he could do some of the RJC head gaksets. A slight increase in compression won't hurt a bid.:biggrin:

I agree that it needs to cleaned and checked but you really should just need bearings and rings along with a good honing. Then you should be able to put it together and go for it.

thanks charlie... thats what im aiming for. I still need headers and a turbo and other parts that I listed above. So a stock buick v6 crank will work or the crank in my 83?

 

[usetaboost]

yeah. But if I was you I would stick all the draw thru stuff back on and put it back to original. A carb set up for blow thru is around 600 bucks. After that you will need a serpentine setup, IC brackets or a junk ebay front mount, turbo-stock will do just fine, downpipe, carb hat, and a way to tune it unless you want to pull plugs. FOr this kind of money you could just buy a whole IC setup

 

[mat231v6]

for charlie here is what the pistons look like.

 

[charlief1]

thanks charlie... thats what im aiming for. I still need headers and a turbo and other parts that I listed above. So a stock buick v6 crank will work or the crank in my 83?

The stock turbo crank should be in the block you just got so it'll be fine.

yeah. But if I was you I would stick all the draw thru stuff back on and put it back to original. A carb set up for blow thru is around 600 bucks. After that you will need a serpentine setup, IC brackets or a junk ebay front mount, turbo-stock will do just fine, downpipe, carb hat, and a way to tune it unless you want to pull plugs. FOr this kind of money you could just buy a whole IC setup

Got to agree here. Get the car running right with what you've got now and then start gathering parts and hopefully some knowledge on how to do it before you jump straight in. Changing things around is expensive and you can ask Adam on the headaches he's had. I think he's on his third engine and God knows how many Aj has torched with his experiments.:biggrin:

 

[mat231v6]

thanks charlie... thats what im aiming for. I still need headers and a turbo and other parts that I listed above. So a stock buick v6 crank will work or the crank in my 83?

so is it a 109 block or not?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

The stock turbo crank should be in the block you just got so it'll be fine.



Got to agree here. Get the car running right with what you've got now and then start gathering parts and hopefully some knowledge on how to do it before you jump straight in. Changing things around is expensive and you can ask Adam on the headaches he's had. I think he's on his third engine and God knows how many Aj has torched with his experiments.:biggrin:

count 7 buick V6s blocks to date.

all were non useable at the end of the day. bwa ha ha ! the quest for 10s has not been easy!

BUT on that same note, alot of them were serious experiments... looking for tolerance levels on purpose. ever seen a buick with like 60* of timing? lol its awesome!

A.j.