Max power with 6262 pump gas

[shine1stang]

Turbos are just cool in general...

 

[Undercover87T]

I made 403rwhp @ 5600rpm on a conservative pump gas tune with a 6262 at 18psi, 16/18 timing, 11.5/1 A/F. This was also with a 2800-3000 PTC 10in (unlocked). Like Bison said, probably around 500rwhp is a good number depending on the combo and max of say 20psi on pump gas.

 

[20psiofevil]

A little update... got down to the dyno a little late because a sticking caliper and bullshiting with Willie Lynch my tuner for a little while since this was our first face to face. I got it up to 13.8psi falling off to 13.1, 14* of timing, af 11.5 and the car made 445/504. Wanted to crank it up to 16psi and see if it like timing but run out of time this session. I have real good data to work with and have a dyno and 1/8th mile track local to me I can do some more tuning on. By far this is not all that's in this combo.

btw...we were letting out at 6000rpm according to my factory tach.

 

[20psiofevil]

Having troubles loading the video on here if someone doesn't mind doing this for me it's at facebook.com/photo.php?v=161504414026528

Thanks

 

[bison]

to tell you the truth i have a soft spot for your guys turbo buicks. the ford 3.8l essex engine is based off the gm 3.8. so the endless turbo v6 knowledge on here rocks. Im a tru car guy, while i have my preferences what i drive, i dont bash on others cars. if its fast i can respect it...
jt, i just saw that you have the same cam as myself. its an awesome street cam for sure! no if you are going to push the limits then i believe you will need more duration.

Those lobes just work. I've made 697whp with them and trapped 137+. There are even better lobes that will yield a lot of breathing potential without adding much if any overlap if valvetrain components are adequate though. They will extend the engines peak mass efficiency range further. This could potentially add a lot of power if induction/exhaust flow is adequate. Seeing 900+hp with 116+ octane wouldn't be unreasonable. Even a 93/alky tune could benefit a lot. The lca could be increased to keep the cylinder pressure down and more level across the power band.

 

[bison]

I made 403rwhp @ 5600rpm on a conservative pump gas tune with a 6262 at 18psi, 16/18 timing, 11.5/1 A/F. This was also with a 2800-3000 PTC 10in (unlocked). Like Bison said, probably around 500rwhp is a good number depending on the combo and max of say 20psi on pump gas.

The potential is a lot higher with the better flowing heads the Ford comes with. 400-600 rpm more is typical and the mass efficiency is much higher than the iron headed Buick applications even when heavily worked. They can use quite a bit more duration and not narrow the power band as much. With aftermarket pistons and high octane fuel the Essex has a huge amount of potential.

 

[bison]

A little update... got down to the dyno a little late because a sticking caliper and bullshiting with Willie Lynch my tuner for a little while since this was our first face to face. I got it up to 13.8psi falling off to 13.1, 14* of timing, af 11.5 and the car made 445/504. Wanted to crank it up to 16psi and see if it like timing but run out of time this session. I have real good data to work with and have a dyno and 1/8th mile track local to me I can do some more tuning on. By far this is not all that's in this combo.

btw...we were letting out at 6000rpm according to my factory tach.

With more ex wheel and 25-28psi you could increase the power about 75%. These engines flow a lot of air.

 

[20psiofevil]

Wish I had give it more timing. My engine builder said it could handle another 4-5 on pump gas. Might try for 18 tomorrow night and watch the af. Going to local 1/8th track.

 

[bison]

Wish I had give it more timing. My engine builder said it could handle another 4-5 on pump gas. Might try for 18 tomorrow night and watch the af. Going to local 1/8th track.

Read the plugs. Watching a/f isn't enough if adding timing. You could probably add more boost

 

[shine1stang]

Wish I had give it more timing. My engine builder said it could handle another 4-5 on pump gas. Might try for 18 tomorrow night and watch the af. Going to local 1/8th track.

Jt you have prp right? if so take to the track and get some solid baseline mph then go from there. you will be surprised what a lil timing will do with our motors. get that meth injection going and play with boost. with 20psi on my old pt61 making 500rwhp we started spraying alky control 15gph nozzle with no tuning changes picked up 50hp. added 5* and picked up another 50 then said taht was good enuff(19*)my car has never been tuned to its full potential. it will be this year.
+1 w bison reading your plugs are a really good idea.

 

[20psiofevil]

I was told that reading plugs with pump gas was useless? May pick up a casper knock gauge. Does the sensor need to be detuned? I do have the advantage3 software that allows me to tune the car.

 

[GNDriven]

I know its blasphemy, but post some pics of your ford turbo setup.

 

[20psiofevil]

Turbo setup is typical forward facing setup you see on most mustangs. Using shorty pacesetter headers 1 5/8" primaries flipped in the other direction with v-bands weld on. Cross over tube is 2.5" od 16g steel with one short section on flex pipe in it. Using a buick gn ex housing and inlet, rjc down pipe flange for external gate, 3" dp running through a 3.5" magna flow straight through muffler. 3x wrapped with header wrap all the way to the transmission. Engine bay heat is very minimal with this setup. My design is based off of the pony down single turbo kits where the pass side header has a straight pipe coming off of it that J's up into the turbo, bottom side of the J is where I have the driver side plumbed in.

This is the 3rd design I've had on this car and by far is the fastest spooling. I would say it spools this 6262 like my old 3.8 spooled a ta49. It's literally stomp the throttle and instant 15 psi. Have not even installed the 2 step yet.

 

[WarWagon]

That's cool, I dig the projects and stuff you have to make yourself.

 

[20psiofevil]

Thanks man. It's been a real challenge to take a weak na v6 to where it is now. I've pulled a lot of ideas off this site and the turboforums over the years.

 

[WarWagon]

Welcome. Those idea's are going places for you with this build for sure. I built a toy similar like what your doing but used some old stuff and used a carb for some reason lol. It's had a surprisingly decent return for the small investment I have in it, These projects are well worth staying with it and fine tuning.

 

[GNDriven]

I understand the heads are awesome, but can tell us about things like, what the block will hold?, is the stock ignition a limiting factor? What do you have to do to the rest of the drive train to handle high power (ex, 800hp). Thanks.

 

[shine1stang]

I understand the heads are awesome, but can tell us about things like, what the block will hold?, is the stock ignition a limiting factor? What do you have to do to the rest of the drive train to handle high power (ex, 800hp). Thanks.

I've run the stock ignition to 600 rwhp. Using Autolite 103 and live wires. The 8.8 rear end is pretty stout as well. I haven't converted to 31 spline or better as of yet. The stock 4r70w transmission w a good aftermarket valve body can hold 5-600hp. Unlike the 5.0 block our block are est to hold 1000hp. Nobody to my knowledge has "split" a block yet.

 

[20psiofevil]

I understand the heads are awesome, but can tell us about things like, what the block will hold?, is the stock ignition a limiting factor? What do you have to do to the rest of the drive train to handle high power (ex, 800hp). Thanks.

Actually there are a few different style of cylinder heads that will bolt to these blocks. Single port heads which are the older style flow around 240cfm with big valves. Split port are the newest style heads and pretty much flow around 220 cfm stock but the ex valve is pretty small. I had a set of splitport heads on my last motor with all out port and big valves that flowed in the 280cfm range. My current heads flow between 240-250 cfm with stock valves.

There are a few different versions of the block as well. The 01-04 blocks have the beefiest webbing and come stock with a girdle. Plenty of material under the mains to machine for splayed 4bolt caps as others have done it. The 95 and older blocks mainly from the supercoupe have the beefiest main caps stock and have 1/2" cap bolts where the late model has 7/16 main cap bolts. There is an aftermarket girdle available for both blocks but maching is required. I am running a 94/95 sc block myself. The 1/2" main caps studs are the main reason for me, plus the older blocks are cheaper to build since arp stocks all the studs. My engine builder tq'd my caps down to 120ftlbs where everyone is just doing 80-85 on the late model blocks and studs. 3 different cranks for this engine. Supercoupe come with a forged 3.8l crank, cast 3.8l for late model, and 4.2l cast for the f150's. I think if some one was going for more than 700rwhp a sc crank might cut it or another custom forged piece to prevent crank walk.

4r70w/aode is a stout transmission as ford uses it in a lot of their trucks. The fastest fords usually swap over to a c4 though because it's a lot cheaper to build and pretty stout. A trans brake for a 70w will run you almost 1k from fb. The stock axles suck but you can buy aftermarket 31 and 36 spline axles. I'm actually running a 7.5" housing. Got a great deal on a brand new Detroit locker ratchet style locker for around $200 about 5 years ago and have been running it since. I cant say enough about eaton products. Don't think my car has ever made less than 400rwhp and the locker has held up to some abuse.

Ignition is waste spark system. I'm running stock currently but about to upgrade with a boost a spark. Already have 8.5mm accel wires on it. I think once you start making a lot of cylinder pressure and throwing alky at it you need that extra energy from a boost a spark to ignite the charge. Some people upgrade to msd dis4 but imho msd is garbage. Very inconsistent.

Ford also developed what gm would call a stage2 block. 4.5l svo block used in busch series racing. There are quite a few articles on the ford Essex block and the svo block at supersixmotorsports.com. Tom Yentzer is the owner and is a great guy.

A lot still hasn't been done with this motor as far as taking it to it's max potential. These engines aren't as popular as the turbo T's, regals, and gn's. If the ford exxex had a following like the 109 and stage2 then i'm sure there would be a lot more faster ford v6's then what there are.

 

[bison]

With that much flow potential these small cams won't even come close to maximizing the potential of these engines. If I was looking for power I'd go after the turbo, pressure drop on the inlet side, and cam/valvetrain, 1000hp wouldn't be outrageous.