This is what I am thinking. It would take some sitting down and figuring out but I agree...
Is the racing dead?
- Thread starter Razor
- Start date
This is what I am thinking. It would take some sitting down and figuring out but I agree...
I have seen BUICK racing grow in the 90's then decline. It will never be huge again, because there is very little new people to bring in to the community because Buick's market is not performance focused. The people that run these events do a great job, thet don't do it for the money it's the love of the cars, the same for the racers. Drag racing is not dieing it is evolving into many different forms of racing. Racing in general takes alot of work and money and not everybody today has a lot to spare these days of each.
If you want to race index classes contact the Race directors at the event and see if they will make it happen for you. Amazing THS was started a couple years ago and turned out to be a class which I know of numerous people who built cars for and are serious contenders in this class and two of those are new to Buick Racing. If your looking for a Bruton Smith in this community there isn't one.
If you want to race index classes contact the Race directors at the event and see if they will make it happen for you. Amazing THS was started a couple years ago and turned out to be a class which I know of numerous people who built cars for and are serious contenders in this class and two of those are new to Buick Racing. If your looking for a Bruton Smith in this community there isn't one.
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
That's what the rule revisions were made for in TSO. The slowest heads up class outside of the Buick world is the 275 tire classes and they are in the high 4's. The top TSO cars are still .15 away from that mark but could get there at the lighter weight they are allowed outside Buick racing.
The bracket classes at the GSCA nats always had a good many cars so I have no idea why those would drop off.
The index classes have struggled for 2 reasons. Most Buick owners are intimidated by the pro-tree and don't want to try it. If they would try it, they would love it. The other thing is it takes some tuning to get the car dialed in to an index rather than just dialing in what it currently runs. If the owner doesn't want to put the effort in to moving the boost around to get it close to the index, they just sit it out.....which probably goes back to being intimidated by the pro-tree.
TSM was the largest heads up class by far when it was in the 9.7 and slower range. Now it's progressed farther than anyone thought possible and most don't have the funds to keep up. THS is now the largest car count because it's right there in the high 9 range.
Local Real street class times are in the mid to high 5's and many runs in the 6's
BODY & GLASS:
must run ndrra logo on car for points only.
Must have working headlights, tail lights, Stock appearing interior, carpet, door panels, factory
"type" dash, stock floor pans, stock firewall.
single seat ok.
Lexan permitted must be neat in appearance.
forward facing hood scoops and rear wings ok.
fiberglass limited to hood and decklid or hatch only.
fiberglass bumpers are ok on pre 79 model cars only.
*SUSPENSION:
No wheelie bars or 4 link suspension.
must have stock type suspension with factory frame rail or ladder bar with factory frame rail.
Coil overs and anti roll ok.
*TIRES:
-Maximum rear tire size allowed is 275/60-15 designation.
these radial sizes are equivalent to a 275 >
Size /wheel Size/ Equivalent
P275/60R15 /15"/ 28 X 11.50R15
P295/50R16 /16"/ 28X11.50R16
P295/45R17 /17"/ 28X11.50R17
NO HOOSIER DRAG RADIALS
Tire must be used as intended from manufacturer. No alterations
permitted.
*POWER ADDERS:
Single type power adder only.
nos:
no multi stages.
no splitting of foggers or controlling nos flow electronically in any way. must use wot or toggle switch.
1 nos bottle in car.
no foggers on bb
double cross bar plates allowed.
nos sb max .082 jet on plate and max .026 on fogger
nos bb max .068 jet on plate
Nitrous entries maximum jetting
Small block, 6cyl and 4cyl
1 jet - .082
2 jets - .057
4 jets - .035
6 jets - .030
8 jets - .026
*FORCED INDUCTION:
no billett wheels allowed
max turbo size 76mm measured tip to tip. (no reducers allowed to achieve this size !!!!) no clipped wheels !!!!!!
max s/c sizes D1,V7,JT,NOVI 2000,KB 3.6
no boosted bb engines
air to air intercooler OR water meth injection with gas only. ( may not use both together)
air to water allowed with weight penalty . (see weights for description)
*EXHAUST:
must have mufflers on all entries except turbo cars.
*CYLINDER HEAD / ENGINE INDUCTION:
maximum cid limit : sb 427 / bb 525 with stock deck height.
4150 carbs only
23*chevy, 20*ford, 18*mopar, 15*ls, on sb only
LS C5R heads are prohibited.
mod motors ok, twisted wedge heads ok , (twisted wedge R heads ok with weight penalty, see weight for description)
bb heads are conventional style only with factory valve angles.
buick, pontiac,olds combos can run at sb weight (nos or n/a only)
no sheetmetal intakes.
no dry sump oil systems.
no clutchless type transmissions.
*FUEL:
pump gas , race gas , e85 ok
*ELECTRONICS:
ignition boxes limited to standard type 6 series only.
no slew, no traction control, no boost controller, no nos controller .
msd 6530 permitted on all combos.
add on boost reference timing retard boxes allowed.
digiset allowed on plate only.
piggy back ok .
stand alone efi fast or bs3 ok with weight penalty. (see weight for description)
*WEIGHT:
4cyl - turbo, nos, or s/c 2800
v6 - nos 2950
sb n/a - 2750
sb nos - 3150 (see nos for allowed combos)
sb & 6cyl boosted 3250 ( see forced induction for allowed combos)
bb n/a 3000
bb nos 3300 (no foggers)
deduct 50lbs for 70mm and smaller turbo or s/c listed in forced induction.
deduct 50lbs non intercooled
deduct 50lbs on sb with cast iron heads.
add 100lbs for a/w intercooler
add 50lbs for twisted wedge R heads
add 50lbs for stand alone efi (fast & bs3)
*RACE PROCEDURE:
all cars must be driven to staging lanes.
all cars must drive or tow across scales after each round qualifying and after each round won.
if car broke during round won then tow across scales if you plan to fix car by next round.
Once a racer takes the tree in qualifying they are counted in the ladder and may not get an entree refund.
Rules are subject to change to equalize the competition if any combination shows to have an definite advantage .
Weather and time permitting, there will be 2 qualifying sessions. The quickest time will be the official qualifying time. Racers will be paired accordingly. Driver with the quicker E.T. in the previous round during eliminations will have lane choice.
If a race ends for any reason during a round of competition no points will be given for that unfinished round.
Any minor intentional or unintentional rule infraction that does not cause a definite advantage will result in loss of any points and winnings achieved while in violation.
Any intentional rule infraction done to gain advantage over the competition will result in SUSPENSION FROM NDRRA.
All drivers must be ready when called to the burnout box and must pull into his lane immediately when motioned up by an official or he will loose that round.
Treat the other driver the way you want to be treated.
If you have a problem with another driver or team, take it up with an official (in an civil manner) not the other driver or team.
NDRRA has the right to inspect vehicles and support vehicles at anytime for rule violations. This includes tear downs and/or PNG engine measurements. Refusal to allow an inspection or tear down will be considered the same as a performance rule violation and will require the same penalty.
If a competitor believes another competitor in the same class is in violation of a rule he or she may protest that racer for further inspection. The racer making the claim must specify the violation to be checked for. If the inspection requires a teardown of any part of the competitors car, claimant must put up a $500 protest bond. If the racer is found guilty of that rule violation, the claimant will get his protest money back. If the racer is found innocent the racer gets $400 for the unnecessary teardown and NDRRA will get $100 for tech fees.
BODY & GLASS:
must run ndrra logo on car for points only.
Must have working headlights, tail lights, Stock appearing interior, carpet, door panels, factory
"type" dash, stock floor pans, stock firewall.
single seat ok.
Lexan permitted must be neat in appearance.
forward facing hood scoops and rear wings ok.
fiberglass limited to hood and decklid or hatch only.
fiberglass bumpers are ok on pre 79 model cars only.
*SUSPENSION:
No wheelie bars or 4 link suspension.
must have stock type suspension with factory frame rail or ladder bar with factory frame rail.
Coil overs and anti roll ok.
*TIRES:
-Maximum rear tire size allowed is 275/60-15 designation.
these radial sizes are equivalent to a 275 >
Size /wheel Size/ Equivalent
P275/60R15 /15"/ 28 X 11.50R15
P295/50R16 /16"/ 28X11.50R16
P295/45R17 /17"/ 28X11.50R17
NO HOOSIER DRAG RADIALS
Tire must be used as intended from manufacturer. No alterations
permitted.
*POWER ADDERS:
Single type power adder only.
nos:
no multi stages.
no splitting of foggers or controlling nos flow electronically in any way. must use wot or toggle switch.
1 nos bottle in car.
no foggers on bb
double cross bar plates allowed.
nos sb max .082 jet on plate and max .026 on fogger
nos bb max .068 jet on plate
Nitrous entries maximum jetting
Small block, 6cyl and 4cyl
1 jet - .082
2 jets - .057
4 jets - .035
6 jets - .030
8 jets - .026
*FORCED INDUCTION:
no billett wheels allowed
max turbo size 76mm measured tip to tip. (no reducers allowed to achieve this size !!!!) no clipped wheels !!!!!!
max s/c sizes D1,V7,JT,NOVI 2000,KB 3.6
no boosted bb engines
air to air intercooler OR water meth injection with gas only. ( may not use both together)
air to water allowed with weight penalty . (see weights for description)
*EXHAUST:
must have mufflers on all entries except turbo cars.
*CYLINDER HEAD / ENGINE INDUCTION:
maximum cid limit : sb 427 / bb 525 with stock deck height.
4150 carbs only
23*chevy, 20*ford, 18*mopar, 15*ls, on sb only
LS C5R heads are prohibited.
mod motors ok, twisted wedge heads ok , (twisted wedge R heads ok with weight penalty, see weight for description)
bb heads are conventional style only with factory valve angles.
buick, pontiac,olds combos can run at sb weight (nos or n/a only)
no sheetmetal intakes.
no dry sump oil systems.
no clutchless type transmissions.
*FUEL:
pump gas , race gas , e85 ok
*ELECTRONICS:
ignition boxes limited to standard type 6 series only.
no slew, no traction control, no boost controller, no nos controller .
msd 6530 permitted on all combos.
add on boost reference timing retard boxes allowed.
digiset allowed on plate only.
piggy back ok .
stand alone efi fast or bs3 ok with weight penalty. (see weight for description)
*WEIGHT:
4cyl - turbo, nos, or s/c 2800
v6 - nos 2950
sb n/a - 2750
sb nos - 3150 (see nos for allowed combos)
sb & 6cyl boosted 3250 ( see forced induction for allowed combos)
bb n/a 3000
bb nos 3300 (no foggers)
deduct 50lbs for 70mm and smaller turbo or s/c listed in forced induction.
deduct 50lbs non intercooled
deduct 50lbs on sb with cast iron heads.
add 100lbs for a/w intercooler
add 50lbs for twisted wedge R heads
add 50lbs for stand alone efi (fast & bs3)
*RACE PROCEDURE:
all cars must be driven to staging lanes.
all cars must drive or tow across scales after each round qualifying and after each round won.
if car broke during round won then tow across scales if you plan to fix car by next round.
Once a racer takes the tree in qualifying they are counted in the ladder and may not get an entree refund.
Rules are subject to change to equalize the competition if any combination shows to have an definite advantage .
Weather and time permitting, there will be 2 qualifying sessions. The quickest time will be the official qualifying time. Racers will be paired accordingly. Driver with the quicker E.T. in the previous round during eliminations will have lane choice.
If a race ends for any reason during a round of competition no points will be given for that unfinished round.
Any minor intentional or unintentional rule infraction that does not cause a definite advantage will result in loss of any points and winnings achieved while in violation.
Any intentional rule infraction done to gain advantage over the competition will result in SUSPENSION FROM NDRRA.
All drivers must be ready when called to the burnout box and must pull into his lane immediately when motioned up by an official or he will loose that round.
Treat the other driver the way you want to be treated.
If you have a problem with another driver or team, take it up with an official (in an civil manner) not the other driver or team.
NDRRA has the right to inspect vehicles and support vehicles at anytime for rule violations. This includes tear downs and/or PNG engine measurements. Refusal to allow an inspection or tear down will be considered the same as a performance rule violation and will require the same penalty.
If a competitor believes another competitor in the same class is in violation of a rule he or she may protest that racer for further inspection. The racer making the claim must specify the violation to be checked for. If the inspection requires a teardown of any part of the competitors car, claimant must put up a $500 protest bond. If the racer is found guilty of that rule violation, the claimant will get his protest money back. If the racer is found innocent the racer gets $400 for the unnecessary teardown and NDRRA will get $100 for tech fees.
X275 Rules low 5-high 4 second cars
FORMAT:
This is an 1/8 mile heads-up class run on a .400 pro tree with a pro ladder. X275 is a qualified quick 8 field. Courtesy staging and autostart is in effect. There will also be another class called “The Shootout” for qualifiers #9-16, and it will be run on a pro ladder. This allows non-qualifiers to compete for additional points and a place to race. (At larger events 2 – 16 car fields or all-run format may be used)
BODY:
The car must retain its original appearance, profiles, and dimensions. Factory roof and quarter panels must be used. Aftermarket fiberglass replacement panels are limited to hood, front fenders, doors, decklids, and bumpers only. All front ends must be of factory dimensions and cannot be stretched. Aftermarket wings and spoilers are permitted. Complete stock appearing front and rear bumpers are required. A hood must cover the entire induction system. Forward facing hood scoops/ turbo or supercharger inlets are permitted.
INTERIOR:
Factory appearing dashboard, door panels, and driver seat is required. Full Carpet is required on floorboards. Factory floor pan on driver and passenger side required. Bare inside frame of car cannot be exposed. Aftermarket steering column is permitted.
WINDSHIELD/WINDOWS:
OEM glass or lexan windows are permitted.
CHASSIS:
Complete stock chassis and frame rails must be retained. Back-halved cars are not permitted. Front core support may be modified or removed. Aftermarket bolt-on replacement front K-members/sub frames are allowed (if front shocks bolt to K-member then they must be in factory location). Mini tubs are allowed. Rear frame rails may be notched for clearance. Factory wheelbase must be maintained.
ENGINE:
Maximum displacement for all engines is 588ci. Small blocks are allowed any deck height but must retain stock bore spacing. GM Big Blocks are limited to a 10.2 deck height. Ford Big Blocks are limited to a 10.3 deck height. Mopar Big Blocks are limited to a 10.7 deck height.
TURBOCHARGERS
Single turbocharger limited to 88 mm maximum. (GT55-88, Pro-Mod 88, ET-R88, Comp, Bullseye or = mid/large frame turbo). Turbocharger size will be verified by measuring the housing bore at the leading edge of the impeller wheel and must maintain the contour of the compressor housing. Inducer dimensions will not exceed 3.462 inches and Exducer dimensions will not exceed 4.765 inches on MID FRAME turbos. Inducer dimensions will not exceed 3.462 inches and Exducer dimensions will not exceed 5.56 inches on LARGE FRAME turbos. The maximum diameter of the housing bore at the leading edge of the wheel may not exceed 2 mm more than the maximum allowable turbocharger size permitted and may not have any additional holes that allow air to enter the turbocharger. Inserts or reducers to achieve inlet or outlet dimensions prohibited. Any type of air to air or water to air intercooler permitted. Turbochargers w/nitrous oxide are prohibited except on 2-rotor, 4 cylinder, and inline 6 cylinder engines.
SUPERCHARGERS:
Cog or gear driven superchargers are permitted, must meet all factory inlet, outlet, and internal housing dimensions. Inserts or reducers to achieve inlet or outlet dimensions prohibited. Any type intercooler is permitted. Cannot combine with nitrous oxide. Roots superchargers are limited to a 10-71. Centrifugal superchargers are permitted. Screw superchargers are not permitted.
NITROUS OXIDE:
Small block is permitted to run any type multi-stage nitrous systems. Big blocks are limited to a single stage nitrous system – A single stage fogger (2 nitrous solenoids and 2 fuel solenoids) are permitted or if using a single plate then your limited to (1 fuel solenoid, 1 nitrous solenoid), and 1 purge solenoid, purge must exit engine compartment.
TRANSMISSION:
Any factory style automatic transmission allowed. Bruno-Lenco transmissions are prohibited. Clutchless manual transmission and clutch assisted manual transmissions are permitted on naturally aspirated combinations only. Electric shifters or air shifters are permitted.
INDUCTION:
Small Block combinations may run any type induction. Big Block combinations are limited to a dedicated single carburetor with cast intake.
OILING SYSTEM:
Dry sumps are permitted on all cars.
EXHAUST:
Mufflers or inserts are required on all cars except for turbo cars. Exhaust may exit underneath car or out the front fenders but must not affect timing or staging beams.
FUEL:
Gasoline only is permitted. Alcohol or E-85 or other derivatives is prohibited.
STREET EQUIPMENT:
Functional headlights, taillights and brake lights required. All headlights, brake lights, marker lights, etc must be on car and not removed for any reason. All vehicles may be towed back from their passes.
SUSPENSION:
Stock style suspension cars only (See weights below for penalty for aftermarket suspension). Four links are prohibited on all cars. Aftermarket direct replacement components such as: front control arms, rear control arms, front coil over shocks, and rear coil over shocks are permitted. Aftermarket rack and pinion steering allowed. Rear leaf springs, springs, shocks, and coil-overs may be moved to accommodate tire clearance, and do not need to be mounted in stock location. Bolt-on or welded sub-frame connectors, rear sway bars, are permitted on all cars. Wheelie bars are prohibited on all cars. Torque arms are only permitted on cars that were originally equipped from factory with it. Upper and Lower control arms must be mounted in the factory chassis locations -S Box permitted
TIRES:
All cars with power adder must compete on a Drag Radial type tire with the following sidewall designation 275/60/15. Naturally aspirated cars are permitted to run a 28.0” x 10.5” slick, no “W” tires permitted.
Minimum base Weights:
All minimum weights include the driver.
Naturally Aspirated (small block) 2600 lbs
Naturally Aspirated (big block with standard deck height and conventional head) 2900 lbs
Naturally Aspirated (big block with tall deck height and conventional head) 2950 lbs
Naturally Aspirated (big block with standard height and big chief head) 3050 lbs
Nitrous (small block) 2950 lbs
Nitrous (big block with standard deck height and conventional head) 3250 lbs
Nitrous (big block with tall deck height and conventional head) 3400 lbs
Single YSI / F1A/6-71 Supercharger (small block) 3100 lbs
Single F1C/8-71 Supercharger (small block) 3200 lbs
Single F1R / Xi/10-71 Supercharger (small block) 3300 lbs
Single 76mm T6 Turbocharger (small block) 3000 lbs.
Single 80mm T6 Turbocharger (small block) 3100 lbs.
Single 85mm T6 Turbocharger (small block) 3150 lbs.
Single 88mm T6 Turbocharger (Y2K or GT47-88 ) (small block) 3200 lbs
Single 88mm T6 Turbocharger (GT55-88, Pro Mod 88 or =) (small block) 3300 lb
Single 88mm T6 Turbocharger (Large Frame 88) 3350 lbs
*Small Blocks with single stage nitrous system: deduct 50 lbs
* Small Blocks (NOS only) with 23 degree Chevy heads, 20 degree Ford heads, and 18 degree Mopar heads: deduct 100 lbs.
* Small Block (NOS only) non-inline valve head with more than 2 nitrous kits: add 100 lbs
* Non-Intercooled boosted cars: deduct 50 lbs.
* Aftermarket rear suspension (Ladder bar): add 50 lbs.
* Buick/Olds/Pontiac Nitrous combos will be 3250 and not exceed 588 cu inches
* V-6 Turbocharged/Supercharged/Nitrous combos will deduct 200 lbs from base weight
* Large Frame Turbo with billet wheel: add 50 lbs
If one combination appears to have an advantage rules may be changed at the race director’s discretion in order to keep a level playing field for all competitors.
FORMAT:
This is an 1/8 mile heads-up class run on a .400 pro tree with a pro ladder. X275 is a qualified quick 8 field. Courtesy staging and autostart is in effect. There will also be another class called “The Shootout” for qualifiers #9-16, and it will be run on a pro ladder. This allows non-qualifiers to compete for additional points and a place to race. (At larger events 2 – 16 car fields or all-run format may be used)
BODY:
The car must retain its original appearance, profiles, and dimensions. Factory roof and quarter panels must be used. Aftermarket fiberglass replacement panels are limited to hood, front fenders, doors, decklids, and bumpers only. All front ends must be of factory dimensions and cannot be stretched. Aftermarket wings and spoilers are permitted. Complete stock appearing front and rear bumpers are required. A hood must cover the entire induction system. Forward facing hood scoops/ turbo or supercharger inlets are permitted.
INTERIOR:
Factory appearing dashboard, door panels, and driver seat is required. Full Carpet is required on floorboards. Factory floor pan on driver and passenger side required. Bare inside frame of car cannot be exposed. Aftermarket steering column is permitted.
WINDSHIELD/WINDOWS:
OEM glass or lexan windows are permitted.
CHASSIS:
Complete stock chassis and frame rails must be retained. Back-halved cars are not permitted. Front core support may be modified or removed. Aftermarket bolt-on replacement front K-members/sub frames are allowed (if front shocks bolt to K-member then they must be in factory location). Mini tubs are allowed. Rear frame rails may be notched for clearance. Factory wheelbase must be maintained.
ENGINE:
Maximum displacement for all engines is 588ci. Small blocks are allowed any deck height but must retain stock bore spacing. GM Big Blocks are limited to a 10.2 deck height. Ford Big Blocks are limited to a 10.3 deck height. Mopar Big Blocks are limited to a 10.7 deck height.
TURBOCHARGERS
Single turbocharger limited to 88 mm maximum. (GT55-88, Pro-Mod 88, ET-R88, Comp, Bullseye or = mid/large frame turbo). Turbocharger size will be verified by measuring the housing bore at the leading edge of the impeller wheel and must maintain the contour of the compressor housing. Inducer dimensions will not exceed 3.462 inches and Exducer dimensions will not exceed 4.765 inches on MID FRAME turbos. Inducer dimensions will not exceed 3.462 inches and Exducer dimensions will not exceed 5.56 inches on LARGE FRAME turbos. The maximum diameter of the housing bore at the leading edge of the wheel may not exceed 2 mm more than the maximum allowable turbocharger size permitted and may not have any additional holes that allow air to enter the turbocharger. Inserts or reducers to achieve inlet or outlet dimensions prohibited. Any type of air to air or water to air intercooler permitted. Turbochargers w/nitrous oxide are prohibited except on 2-rotor, 4 cylinder, and inline 6 cylinder engines.
SUPERCHARGERS:
Cog or gear driven superchargers are permitted, must meet all factory inlet, outlet, and internal housing dimensions. Inserts or reducers to achieve inlet or outlet dimensions prohibited. Any type intercooler is permitted. Cannot combine with nitrous oxide. Roots superchargers are limited to a 10-71. Centrifugal superchargers are permitted. Screw superchargers are not permitted.
NITROUS OXIDE:
Small block is permitted to run any type multi-stage nitrous systems. Big blocks are limited to a single stage nitrous system – A single stage fogger (2 nitrous solenoids and 2 fuel solenoids) are permitted or if using a single plate then your limited to (1 fuel solenoid, 1 nitrous solenoid), and 1 purge solenoid, purge must exit engine compartment.
TRANSMISSION:
Any factory style automatic transmission allowed. Bruno-Lenco transmissions are prohibited. Clutchless manual transmission and clutch assisted manual transmissions are permitted on naturally aspirated combinations only. Electric shifters or air shifters are permitted.
INDUCTION:
Small Block combinations may run any type induction. Big Block combinations are limited to a dedicated single carburetor with cast intake.
OILING SYSTEM:
Dry sumps are permitted on all cars.
EXHAUST:
Mufflers or inserts are required on all cars except for turbo cars. Exhaust may exit underneath car or out the front fenders but must not affect timing or staging beams.
FUEL:
Gasoline only is permitted. Alcohol or E-85 or other derivatives is prohibited.
STREET EQUIPMENT:
Functional headlights, taillights and brake lights required. All headlights, brake lights, marker lights, etc must be on car and not removed for any reason. All vehicles may be towed back from their passes.
SUSPENSION:
Stock style suspension cars only (See weights below for penalty for aftermarket suspension). Four links are prohibited on all cars. Aftermarket direct replacement components such as: front control arms, rear control arms, front coil over shocks, and rear coil over shocks are permitted. Aftermarket rack and pinion steering allowed. Rear leaf springs, springs, shocks, and coil-overs may be moved to accommodate tire clearance, and do not need to be mounted in stock location. Bolt-on or welded sub-frame connectors, rear sway bars, are permitted on all cars. Wheelie bars are prohibited on all cars. Torque arms are only permitted on cars that were originally equipped from factory with it. Upper and Lower control arms must be mounted in the factory chassis locations -S Box permitted
TIRES:
All cars with power adder must compete on a Drag Radial type tire with the following sidewall designation 275/60/15. Naturally aspirated cars are permitted to run a 28.0” x 10.5” slick, no “W” tires permitted.
Minimum base Weights:
All minimum weights include the driver.
Naturally Aspirated (small block) 2600 lbs
Naturally Aspirated (big block with standard deck height and conventional head) 2900 lbs
Naturally Aspirated (big block with tall deck height and conventional head) 2950 lbs
Naturally Aspirated (big block with standard height and big chief head) 3050 lbs
Nitrous (small block) 2950 lbs
Nitrous (big block with standard deck height and conventional head) 3250 lbs
Nitrous (big block with tall deck height and conventional head) 3400 lbs
Single YSI / F1A/6-71 Supercharger (small block) 3100 lbs
Single F1C/8-71 Supercharger (small block) 3200 lbs
Single F1R / Xi/10-71 Supercharger (small block) 3300 lbs
Single 76mm T6 Turbocharger (small block) 3000 lbs.
Single 80mm T6 Turbocharger (small block) 3100 lbs.
Single 85mm T6 Turbocharger (small block) 3150 lbs.
Single 88mm T6 Turbocharger (Y2K or GT47-88 ) (small block) 3200 lbs
Single 88mm T6 Turbocharger (GT55-88, Pro Mod 88 or =) (small block) 3300 lb
Single 88mm T6 Turbocharger (Large Frame 88) 3350 lbs
*Small Blocks with single stage nitrous system: deduct 50 lbs
* Small Blocks (NOS only) with 23 degree Chevy heads, 20 degree Ford heads, and 18 degree Mopar heads: deduct 100 lbs.
* Small Block (NOS only) non-inline valve head with more than 2 nitrous kits: add 100 lbs
* Non-Intercooled boosted cars: deduct 50 lbs.
* Aftermarket rear suspension (Ladder bar): add 50 lbs.
* Buick/Olds/Pontiac Nitrous combos will be 3250 and not exceed 588 cu inches
* V-6 Turbocharged/Supercharged/Nitrous combos will deduct 200 lbs from base weight
* Large Frame Turbo with billet wheel: add 50 lbs
If one combination appears to have an advantage rules may be changed at the race director’s discretion in order to keep a level playing field for all competitors.
ryan george
Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2007
Ok, I'll give you my opinion..pls don't bash as I question myself for posting to begin with. My issue is that I don't know anyone. I post on here and read alot of posts, but I'm not part of any 'group'. I've owned the car for 17+ years, started upgrading 5,6,7 or so years ago. I went to the GS Nationals 2-3 years ago (never again), and I've gone to Norwalk several times as its close. I know Paul from HR and Vince from Janis transmissions. Always say hi and enjoy a short conversation. I ran on Fri at Norwalk this year and had a great time (11.69 @ 117, I was happy). But, I was basically by myself the whole time. Most people I talked to were the old Buicks guys (not old guys, old cars). Also, said hi to Don C as I met him while talking to Paul last year at Norwalk on Fri. I walk all around, trying to talk to people but feel like an outcast as I wasn't part of the earlier groups that formed. Why never again at the Nationals? Loved seeing the cars, but 3+ days and not knowing anyone, it got quite boring. Thought about going back up to Norwalk on Sun this year to watch (I'm just learning to race, so only doing test n tune stuff), but then thought, well if the wife isn't going to go with me, it's another day of me walking around by myself, probably looking stupid. Might as well just stay home and get some work done. Just wanted to provide my perspective.
dr_frankenstein
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
+1
The B4B and non conventional buick setups are often looked past. So it makes it hard to meet anyone when your machine might have little in common with the others. So I know this feeling all to well, and Im sure Charlie would agree
But yea.... I have to definitly agree with this post above.... especially if you have to drive 12 or 14 hours just to be there.
A.j.
If you want to meet people, run a class. For an example, ths had 17 cars at bg last year. I knew a few, knew some Just from TB.com, and met a few more. By the time peer tech and all the qualifying was done, I felt like I had even more Buick buds! If you just go to watch and sit in the stands you aren't going to meet anyone. Having a car there that you are racing helps a ton. I can't count how many people come up in the pits and say "hi, I'm so and so from TB.com." I know a bunch of people from participating at the races.
My suggestion is to pick a class, such as ths, participate in the online discussion, then introduce yourself at the races. Half the fun at these events is the social aspect imo.
My suggestion is to pick a class, such as ths, participate in the online discussion, then introduce yourself at the races. Half the fun at these events is the social aspect imo.
dr_frankenstein
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
ryan george
Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2007
There were 0 THS cars there on Fri, or I would have tried to run with you. They put me in some goofy class, BPO or something like that (I didn't know any better). Had to run a pro tree half the time and never raced another GN, or T Type. No, I only sit in the stands to grab a bite to eat. Rest of the time I'm walking (I can't sit still) everywhere.
Since it inception there has ALWAYS been some form of class racing for hybrids and B4B at Reynolds (Hartlines) and at TBnats and will ALWAYS continue to be... It may not be class specific that starts with the letter "T" however the is something for everyone... A hint for any Buick guys wanting to run the index classes: Make sure your car is minimum half a second faster in the 1/4 and at least 3 tenths faster in the 1/8th than the Index will allow. For example... I would run my 10.70 car on pump gas ALL DAY LONG in the 11.49 and 12.49 index class... The rest is up to you to figure out :biggrin:
dr_frankenstein
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
This is seriously the first ive heard of it. And I am so happy to know we have a place to go.
Ive been searching for a hybrid and B4B car race for awhile, Ask Charlie, we have had the same complaint for like 3 years now.
WHY now.... anybody has cared to mention this to us is beyond me.
considering that there has been threads started asking just the same question... go take a look in the hybrid section... I reckon Plowboy was the thread starter asking.
I think maybe what this boils down to.... is not that there isnt races for everyone... but getting the word out there, that there is a spot for everyone is the problem.
What we have here.......... is a failure to communicate.
A.j.
Ive been searching for a hybrid and B4B car race for awhile, Ask Charlie, we have had the same complaint for like 3 years now.
WHY now.... anybody has cared to mention this to us is beyond me.
considering that there has been threads started asking just the same question... go take a look in the hybrid section... I reckon Plowboy was the thread starter asking.
I think maybe what this boils down to.... is not that there isnt races for everyone... but getting the word out there, that there is a spot for everyone is the problem.
What we have here.......... is a failure to communicate.
A.j.
Turbo Indian
worlds quickest 6cyl bird
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2003
the 1st thing you need to do is get some damn people skills, then get your car to make a 10.70 pass.
Attachments
We have been posting this in the Racing thread for the past 2 years. Not sure how you would have missed it. How often do you visit the racing section of the board?? It has been posted in the Reynolds and TB.com thread ever since it began.. I would be glad to give you all the information you will need in the future. Just hit me up with a PM... Hey Steve T. Are my people skills improving??:biggrin:
There is at our race
I watched the TB national thread carefully Shane. I didn't see where the class was offered but thank you.
Next time send me some info on it and I will make sure the B4black guys know.:biggrin:I agree Aj. You and I can run at Noble and I've searched high and low for mention of a race that the B4Black guys can run, to no avail. If you guys post the info I usually find it but this is the first time I've heard anything about it, anywhere.
I've been checking the racing sections for 3 years now Clint. I don't know how I could've missed it but I did. I check all the rules each year for some sort of changes that would allow the B4black guys to come and join in but each one of them have the specific rules that says FI only. We don't have FI or intercoolers. Most of us don't run electric fuel pumps either so we're really going back the roots of these cars. Hell, most of us don't have 109 blocks or a bunch of other restrictions that're in the rules.
I know I've asked several times in the class sections myself and was basically laughed at. Kinda sad but true.
I know we're not the fastest of the fast and we may have gotten a little more respect in the last few years but come on.
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
Not true with TSR!I watched the TB national thread carefully Shane. I didn't see where the class was offered but thank you.
I agree Aj. You and I can run at Noble and I've searched high and low for mention of a race that the B4Black guys can run, to no avail. If you guys post the info I usually find it but this is the first time I've heard anything about it, anywhere.
I've been checking the racing sections for 3 years now Clint. I don't know how I could've missed it but I did. I check all the rules each year for some sort of changes that would allow the B4black guys to come and join in but each one of them have the specific rules that says FI only. We don't have FI or intercoolers. Most of us don't run electric fuel pumps either so we're really going back the roots of these cars. Hell, most of us don't have 109 blocks or a bunch of other restrictions that're in the rules.
I know I've asked several times in the class sections myself and was basically laughed at. Kinda sad but true.
TSR Has allowed them!
Right from the TSR rules:
"Engine 1. Any Buick V6 engine is allowed."
Turbo 1. ANY turbo mounted and oriented in the factory stock position is allowed including 4 bolt turbos.
Charlie, Please look through the TSR rules again with a fine tooth comb and post up where the rules show "each one of them have the specific rules that says FI only."
Also find where we do not allow cars with No I/C's..
Scot W.
Alright, This is Waaayyy overdue. DONNIE, I will put up a thousand bucks for you to show up to Reynolds or TB.com Nats next year. You show up with your car and RUN in any class, $1,000 to you. Call it tow money. Both events run index classes or I am willing to bet you could run TSO if you asked everyone at peer tech.
Also, double or nothing, I will race against you best 2 out of 3 heads up pro tree hot lapping it. We go around as fast as we can pack our chutes. My car will weigh 3500 lbs with a 76 mm turbo. If its hot out you can hop in my car with me in the staging lanes and cool off, listen to some tunes. I am not one of the heavy hitters, just a new guy.
If you don't make either, I will put the $1000 toward TSL class, winner takes all at one of the events. I will send the money to the RRA for TSL to hold on to so you know it will be there.
P.S. I will extend this to Bowling Green this year if we can get away with it. Never been but I get the impression it is less flexible with Tech and letting us hot lap it. I would like some input from others on that.
So are you in ????????
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
