"FAST" B2B Systems SALE !!--Lubrant Performance: Joe Lubrant says:

[gewroo]

Care to explain how this is done?. The circuitry is just copper traces, on a printed circuit board, how can they be made resistant to ignition interference?.

Are you serious???

Main Entry: cir·cuit
Pronunciation: 's&r-k&t
Function: noun
:
:
4 a : the complete path of an electric current including usually the source of electric energy b : an assemblage of electronic elements : HOOKUP c : a two-way communication path between points (as in a computer)
​

Main Entry: hard·en
Pronunciation: 'här-d&n
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): hard·ened; hard·en·ing /'härd-ni[ng], 'här-d&n-i[ng]/
transitive senses
:
:
3 : to inure to unfavorable environmental conditions
4 : to protect from blast, heat, or radiation (as by a thick barrier or placement underground)​

Would care to explain (indeed, prove) how it's not "hardened"?

"Hardening" a circuit to make it more immune to radiated or conducted noise is a process that starts with the circuit design and ends with the application. It can involve disciplines from many areas of electrical design and there's way more to this than could possibly be explained here. It can also be pretty simple.

You must have some serious time on your hands to question this marketing blurb. Your transparent attempt to sully someone's character, business and a product is way out of line.

 

[TurboTR]

Dammit- I wanna know, need to know as a consumer... When the global Jihad manages to pop off the "American Hiroshima" they've been planning for years now... what circuit hardening has FAST done to ensure that my ecu survives the nuclear EMP's? Seems the ecu should be fully encased in 500 lbs of lead... And btw, the stock ecu is far superior in nuclear EMP hardening to any aftermarket ecu, especially after you hack a few bytes of code patch into it.

TurboTR

 

[bruce]

Bruce, I have been reading Joe's ad post and see you are trying to punch holes in his sales. You are trying to cast doubt that Fast systems are no good and there is no tech support. I can call Joe anytime and he has always been there to help with questions. Besides those Fast systems have proven themselves on some of the worlds fastest cars. Is your car one of those 7,8,9 or 10 second cars? If not you Might want to call Joe to help tune it for you. LOL

PS. Put that Mass air back were it belongs, your Buick is not an LS1.

You might try reading what I've said, and quite assuming so much.

If you want to believe things, without question, that's just the way you do things, but not everyone is like you.

 

[bruce]

"I never said that the FAST system circuitry is harden more than any other "SPECIFIC ECM"

Now that this thread is in the PROPER AREA you can respond to what I had asked you and you IGNORED!

..............................................................
THERE YOU CAN CLAIM WHAT YOUR INTREPRETATION IS OF A HARDEN CIRCUIT, IN YOUR....." NON-FALLIABLE OPINION".

I PERSONALLY FEEL THE CIRCUIT AS DISCRIBED IN THE MFG. ADVERTISMENT CLAIM IS ACCURATE TO THEIR OPINION/INTERPRETATION ! THEY ARE ENTITLED TO THIER OPINION/INTERPRETATION ARE THEY NOT? "

Based on what I said, I beleive It is now "YOUR RESPONSIBILITY" to disclaim what the manufactuer wording intent was. The statement was very simple, and in a Layman term.

Circuit hardening is a very board and general term!!
There are different processes & methods of ciruit hardening used to provide the intended protection.
The methods and/or processes can be very COMPLEX or very SIMPLE depending on what it is being protected from!! (RFI, EMI, RADIATION ETC. ETC.)
Circuit Design, Separation of Circuit Functions, Components, PC Board (single or multilayer), Materials, Coatings, Casings, Ground paths, etc. etc. all play an important role.
Circuit Hardening/Shielding whether Internal, External, or a combination of both, based on intended design is still what it is!!

As I said previously: I personally feel the statement made in the mfg ad wording is accurate, to their opinion & intrepretation.
They may have use some complex internal or just the simplier methods of circuit hardening but the statement stands on it self to be self evident.
The simplier methods are very evident to exist!

Have a Nice Day

Done ranting?.

I'm under no obligation to prove anything, you're the one making the claims.

So instead of actually using any standard, or defineble feature, it's your in your *opinion* that said circuitry is *hardened*. Well, OK, but that's an opinion, whereas you intially said it in a way that presented it as being fact.

You also said:
*They may have use some complex internal or just the simplier methods of circuit hardening but the statement stands on it self to be self evident.
The simplier methods are very evident to exist!*

If they *may have used* how can you now state as opinion that is is self-evident?. *may have used* sounds like your not really sure after all what they *may* have done. Either they did or they didn't, in one sentence you say they did, and then later say *may have*, which is it?.

If their ecm is no better then what's aready out there, then why bother to mention that it's somehow different or better then what's out aready out there?. Unless you can prove that the claim you've repeated, and now endorsed, is somehow better, it's really just a *non-claim*, if it's in no way better then any other ecm out there...

Again, I'm just asking questons about information, you've posted. Up until I I state something as fact, I have nothing to prove. If you want to twist my words into something you want to get angry about that's just what your want to do, and has nothing to do with what I post(ed).

 

[bruce]

Would care to explain (indeed, prove) how it's not "hardened"?

"Hardening" a circuit to make it more immune to radiated or conducted noise is a process that starts with the circuit design and ends with the application. It can involve disciplines from many areas of electrical design and there's way more to this than could possibly be explained here. It can also be pretty simple.

You must have some serious time on your hands to question this marketing blurb. Your transparent attempt to sully someone's character, business and a product is way out of line.

Nope, I never said it wasn't, I just ASKED what made their ecm somehow special in that it was *hardened*.

OK, why not humor us/me with some of the simplier explainations.

While it maybe somewhat *transparent* to you, again, all I did was ask questions. If someone isn't allowed to ask a vendor questions, about what they expressing as fact, well, then there are some serious issues. Maybe no one wants to ask questions, that's fine, but again, just because some folks don't want to, doesn't mean others aren't entitled to ask questions.

 

[Joe Lubrant]

Done ranting?.

I'm under no obligation to prove anything, you're the one making the claims.

So instead of actually using any standard, or defineble feature, it's your in your *opinion* that said circuitry is *hardened*. Well, OK, but that's an opinion, whereas you intially said it in a way that presented it as being fact.

You also said:
*They may have use some complex internal or just the simplier methods of circuit hardening but the statement stands on it self to be self evident.
The simplier methods are very evident to exist!*

If they *may have used* how can you now state as opinion that is is self-evident?. *may have used* sounds like your not really sure after all what they *may* have done. Either they did or they didn't, in one sentence you say they did, and then later say *may have*, which is it?.

If their ecm is no better then what's aready out there, then why bother to mention that it's somehow different or better then what's out aready out there?. Unless you can prove that the claim you've repeated, and now endorsed, is somehow better, it's really just a *non-claim*, if it's in no way better then any other ecm out there...

Again, I'm just asking questons about information, you've posted. Up until I I state something as fact, I have nothing to prove. If you want to twist my words into something you want to get angry about that's just what your want to do, and has nothing to do with what I post(ed).

Ranting????.........Give me a break!!

For a person who is supposed to be considered very intelligent??.......you are very much lacking the smarts of COMMON SENSE!!

Your Question has Been Answered.......I have Nothing Else to Prove to You!!
You were not able to Pick Apart what I had said!! Believing that you were able to Read Between the Lines, that I was unsure of anything, is a Falsehood.
The Mfg or I did not claimed it was better in circuit hardening than anything else...just that it was!!! Your Beating A Dead Horse...Give it Up!!!

I have much more Important things to do with my Valuable Time & Life.
BRUCE you have reached the Point of Boredom with me!! ZZZzzzz!!

RAMBLE ON & ON.....YADA, YADA, YADA AS YOU NORMALLY DO!

I will no longer entertain your Intelligent ignorance and/or Your Hidden Agenda which has been so Evidently been Exposed Here for ALL to SEE!!

Get a Life and Move On......!!!

NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, (NO COMMON SENSE)--- NO SERVICE !! OR ADDITIONAL RESPONSE REQUIRED!!

Have A Nice Day :smile:

 

[summit]

Can someone PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give Bruce his own forum. Years of hearing how anything but a stock ECM with his own code is crap is getting pretty old.

Bruce post number 1
I am so smart, I wrote my own code, I have a $20 ECM that is better than anything else out there. I would tell you how to do it, but it is so easy a 5 year old could do it. Therefore I will tell you nothing.

Bruce post number 2
Why do you guys use "insert favorite electronic product here"? You should just use a stock GM ECM. It is much better. Very smart GM Engineers designed it, they are almost as smart as me. If you lived in a basement like me and had no life you too could be reworking factory parts instead of being at the track enjoying them.

Bruce post number 3
I don't know why you are being so difficult. I already know all of lifes mysteries. I just want you to prove to me you do as well. Just because I ask a question, then procede to overanalyze and shoot down your answers until you succumb and give me the answer I was looking for doesn't mean I have a superiority complex, does it? Don't answer that until I give you the answer I am looking for.



Bruce, this is not a court of law or a laboratory. The burden of proof does not fall upon us for every statement that is made. How about we share ideas instead of taking joy in playing devil's advocate every single time? People are inherently good and the fact that we participate on this board sharing ideas proves that. There is no hidden agenda, people are not staying up late to pass out little seeds of misinformation to brainwash the Buick community. For the most part I do not think anyone cares about most of what you post except you, even if you are compelled to post your negative 2 cents in anywhere there is mention of a circuit, chips, or 12 volts in general.

Greg Kring
87 GN
9.01 @ 150 (in the real world-not in theory)

P.S.: this is all my opinion, so feel free to debunk it all on the basis I did not provide you enough documentation, facts, data points, run charts, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah........

 

[bruce]

Bruce, this is not a court of law or a laboratory. The burden of proof does not fall upon us for every statement that is made. How about we share ideas instead of taking joy in playing devil's advocate every single time?

People are inherently good and the fact that we participate on this board sharing ideas proves that.

There is no hidden agenda, people are not staying up late to pass out little seeds of misinformation to brainwash the Buick community. For the most part I do not think anyone cares about most of what you post except you, even if you are compelled to post your negative 2 cents in anywhere there is mention of a circuit, chips, or 12 volts in general.

Wow, how much more off subject can you get?.
Are you done venting now?.

If you want to just beleive everything anyone says, that's fine, if you don't want to guestion anything, fine, but, not every one is like you.
You talk about sharing ideas, in one sentence, and then take me to task for sharing. Can you make up your mind about which way you want it?.
I don't post to make others happy, or impress anyone, if you want to read some ego posturing into them, well feel free to do so, but that's just what your reading into them.

Do you have anything to add about the hardening of circuits?.

So far no one has even tried to directly give any information about what I originally asked about. The replies have been either opinon, or it's just too much to even talk about (even thou there are some simple principles).

 

[bruce]

Ranting????.........Give me a break!!

For a person who is supposed to be considered very intelligent??.......you are very much lacking the smarts of COMMON SENSE!!

Your Question has Been Answered.......I have Nothing Else to Prove to You!!
You were not able to Pick Apart what I had said!! Believing that you were able to Read Between the Lines, that I was unsure of anything, is a Falsehood.
The Mfg or I did not claimed it was better in circuit hardening than anything else...just that it was!!! Your Beating A Dead Horse...Give it Up!!!

I have much more Important things to do with my Valuable Time & Life.
BRUCE you have reached the Point of Boredom with me!! ZZZzzzz!!

RAMBLE ON & ON.....YADA, YADA, YADA AS YOU NORMALLY DO!

I will no longer entertain your Intelligent ignorance and/or Your Hidden Agenda which has been so Evidently been Exposed Here for ALL to SEE!!

Get a Life and Move On......!!!

NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, (NO COMMON SENSE)--- NO SERVICE !! OR ADDITIONAL RESPONSE REQUIRED!!

Have A Nice Day :smile:

What a nice non-answer.
You profess to have the expertise to form an opinion, that you want others to believe, but when it comes down to actually providing any facts or information, you go to discredit the person asking you the questions, rather then answering the questions.

 

[summit]

Here's an idea. Call FAST and ask them. Why you insist on picking some obscure piece of technical data that only the design engineers are going to know about, then post it on the internet expecting the end users to explain it to you is beyond me. Do I have to have an engineering degree to be qualified to give you their phone number? Obviously since no one is trying to answer your question to your satisfaction no one else cares about it. Threads that no one care about usually die, unless a flame war gets started. Wonder which is keeping this one alive. Since you are the expert why don't you call the engineers at FAST and discuss the merits of hardened whatever and report back to us. Picking at others does not count as sharing ideas.

Greg Kring

 

[Joe Lubrant]

Can someone PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give Bruce his own forum. Years of hearing how anything but a stock ECM with his own code is crap is getting pretty old.

Bruce post number 1
I am so smart, I wrote my own code, I have a $20 ECM that is better than anything else out there. I would tell you how to do it, but it is so easy a 5 year old could do it. Therefore I will tell you nothing.

Bruce post number 2
Why do you guys use "insert favorite electronic product here"? You should just use a stock GM ECM. It is much better. Very smart GM Engineers designed it, they are almost as smart as me. If you lived in a basement like me and had no life you too could be reworking factory parts instead of being at the track enjoying them.

Bruce post number 3
I don't know why you are being so difficult. I already know all of lifes mysteries. I just want you to prove to me you do as well. Just because I ask a question, then procede to overanalyze and shoot down your answers until you succumb and give me the answer I was looking for doesn't mean I have a superiority complex, does it? Don't answer that until I give you the answer I am looking for.



Bruce, this is not a court of law or a laboratory. The burden of proof does not fall upon us for every statement that is made. How about we share ideas instead of taking joy in playing devil's advocate every single time? People are inherently good and the fact that we participate on this board sharing ideas proves that. There is no hidden agenda, people are not staying up late to pass out little seeds of misinformation to brainwash the Buick community. For the most part I do not think anyone cares about most of what you post except you, even if you are compelled to post your negative 2 cents in anywhere there is mention of a circuit, chips, or 12 volts in general.

Greg Kring
87 GN
9.01 @ 150 (in the real world-not in theory)

P.S.: this is all my opinion, so feel free to debunk it all on the basis I did not provide you enough documentation, facts, data points, run charts, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah........

Greg,

Yep that Just about Somes it Up !!

Can we set-up a POLL and establish separate FORUM FOR BRUCE ???

I wonder how many people would VOTE YES?

 

[bruce]

Greg,
Yep that Just about Somes it Up !!
Can we set-up a POLL and establish separate FORUM FOR BRUCE ???
I wonder how many people would VOTE YES?

I like this tactic of your's, rather then fully answering a question, you dodge it.
You wanted the thread continued over here to discuss things, and all you do is stray from the subject.

So do you have ANYTHING that supports your opinion other then more opinion?. Or is it all just so complicated that you just can't explain any of it?. You said **They may have use some complex internal or just the simplier methods of circuit hardening but the statement stands on it self to be self evident.** I'm still waiting to hear if they did or didn't use some simplier methods, if they're *simple*, then why can't you explain them?. If you are of the opinion that they used hardening techniques, then why the **MAY HAVE**?.

Can you try to stay on subject?. Your (as well as others) tactic of wondering off subject, just wastes bandwith, and isn't going to stop me from asking questions.

Maybe we need more people asking the tough questions, to try and get to the bottom of some of the claims being made.

 

[Joe Lubrant]

I like this tactic of your's, rather then fully answering a question, you dodge it.
You wanted the thread continued over here to discuss things, and all you do is stray from the subject.

So do you have ANYTHING that supports your opinion other then more opinion?. Or is it all just so complicated that you just can't explain any of it?. You said **They may have use some complex internal or just the simplier methods of circuit hardening but the statement stands on it self to be self evident.** I'm still waiting to hear if they did or didn't use some simplier methods, if they're *simple*, then why can't you explain them?. If you are of the opinion that they used hardening techniques, then why the **MAY HAVE**?.

Can you try to stay on subject?. Your (as well as others) tactic of wondering off subject, just wastes bandwith, and isn't going to stop me from asking questions.

Maybe we need more people asking the tough questions, to try and get to the bottom of some of the claims being made.

BRUCE............YOU ARE A " BROKEN RECORD OR LOOP CIRCLE TAPE"!!


NOT SURE WHICH??? .........OH CRAP!! NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY I'M NOT SURE

 

[Otto J]

Are you serious???

Main Entry: cir·cuit
Pronunciation: 's&r-k&t
Function: noun
:
:
4 a : the complete path of an electric current including usually the source of electric energy b : an assemblage of electronic elements : HOOKUP c : a two-way communication path between points (as in a computer)
​

Main Entry: hard·en
Pronunciation: 'här-d&n
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): hard·ened; hard·en·ing /'härd-ni[ng], 'här-d&n-i[ng]/
transitive senses
:
:
3 : to inure to unfavorable environmental conditions
4 : to protect from blast, heat, or radiation (as by a thick barrier or placement underground)​

Would care to explain (indeed, prove) how it's not "hardened"?

"Hardening" a circuit to make it more immune to radiated or conducted noise is a process that starts with the circuit design and ends with the application. It can involve disciplines from many areas of electrical design and there's way more to this than could possibly be explained here. It can also be pretty simple.

You must have some serious time on your hands to question this marketing blurb. Your transparent attempt to sully someone's character, business and a product is way out of line.

Bruce, This post does not answer your questions?
I believe it also asks you to prove something,
This we would all like to see.

 

[bruce]

Bruce, This post does not answer your questions?
I believe it also asks you to prove something,
This we would all like to see.

In part, but he also mentioned *It can also be pretty simple.*, it would have been nice to hear what that was about.

I didn't say it wasn't hardened, I asked about what did make it hardened. If I knew knew the details of what hardening was, I wouldn't have asked the question. So far the answers have been it's way too complicated, and that it can be pretty simple. If there are simple aspects to it, why can't anyone explain them?.

If I was trying to prove anything, I'd be making claims or saying that it wasn't hardened, if I *knew* it wasn't. It would be interesting, well at least to me, what *hardening* they do that makes it something special, or better then say a stock ecm.

So again, can anyone explain what even the simple aspects of it are?.

 

[bruce]

BRUCE............YOU ARE A " BROKEN RECORD OR LOOP CIRCLE TAPE"!!
NOT SURE WHICH??? .........OH CRAP!! NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY I'M NOT SURE

Nice response from a moderator, it's almost as good as the ones with threats.

It's interesting that rather trying to make any real attempt at explaining anything you have time to just post nonsense.

Care to actually try and explain any of the *simple aspects* of Hardening, or are you just too busy, with dreaming up non-answers?. For someone that's got so much ecperience in the field, I still wonder why you stated they *May Have*, after you stated that in your opinion they did.

 

[Mike Licht]

Bruce,
What does "hardening" mean to you?
Mike

 

[TurboTR]

Ban the troll! This person has done more to poison the air around here (and intentionally no less) than anyone else in memory. And I'm talking about recall all the way back to the gnttype.org days, late 80's.

TurboTR

 

[bruce]

Bruce,
What does "hardening" mean to you?
Mike

I don't understand what exactly it means in the ecm realm, hence my original question. So far all, I've heard is alot of rhetoric, and voodoo'ism about it making an ecm resistant to EMI/RFI noise.
Doesn't an oem or any aftermarket ecm need the same (or similiar) level of protection?.

 

[bruce]

Ban the troll!

How about banning the folks that forget what the actual purpose of this board is?. It's about the discussion of ecms, maybe that needs to be amended, to somehow only allow the vendors to answer things only as they see fit, and the heck with anyone that doesn't want to follow their *rule*.

BTW, can you share any of the simple principles of how the F.A.S.T. ecm is hardened?.