Crappy night at the track

[Pronto]

Looks like MAF dropouts too.

You can test for intake leaks by getting a 3" rubber cap for drain pipes at Home Depot and putting a tire valve in it. Clamp it on the turbo. Take off the valve covers and the rocker arm shafts. Pump it up to 20 or so lbs and find the leaks. Could be clamps, intercooler, doghouse, vacuum lines but you'll find something somewhere. As far as the drag radials go I'm good with 20 lbs. Lower than that doesn't help, makes it worse really.

 

["Turbo-T"]

I think there could be a couple issues here.
My old car "Super Junk" went 12.5 @ 104.7.
This was with the stock turbo and original 140,000 mile valve springs.
You should also be able to get the 60's in the 1.8 range as previously stated.
This can explain your MPH, but not your 60 foot.

You could disable the Alky and see if the car launches harder.
I can tell you on my old car adding a larger turbo to the combination
with the dead stock valve springs, really pushed them over the edge.
With just changing spings on a local car, they picked up several MPH.
I have some new in box Comp 980s if you need them.

Thanks, I'm going to try changing the alky turn on time some.

looks too me like your not building enough rpm before you launch...its taking forever from when you mash the pedal before the maf maxes out, your boost peaks, and finally , make it to the top of first...the launch rpm is the only thing i can attribute to having all of those be off by the same amount.

what stall is the converter rated at?

i compared one of my runs side by side with yours as an example, at 10lbs of boost you would of had it floored for 3 seconds before you took off? that cant be right...im wondering why it took soo long after you floored it for the mph to read that the cars moving...

anyone?

I'm not sure about the converter but I believe it's stock. it has a bunch of 5's stamped into it around the outer edge. That's a D5 correct?

But yeah one of the issues I noticed while staged is I'd get both the stage bulbs on, then I'd hold the brake pedal to the floor and push down on the gas. The boost was really slow getting up, then about 8 or 9 the darn thing decided to push thru the lights. In the past I didn't seem to have as much of an issue.

Also check your wheel cylinders, mine was pushing through the lights in NC at 2 lbs of boost. When I got to RC's shop I found the right rear had leaked all over the brake shoes. While there I decided to install the braided hoses while the system was opened. I didn't get a chance to go back to the track due to the rain that moved in but I can hold about 7 lbs on the street now.
Before I found the brakes leaking I was leaving at 0 boost and my 60' was 1.64 with 21 psi in my drag radials, my car ran 6.93 at 103 in the 1/8th at 22lbs of boost and 21* of timing on 93 and ALKY at a fat 10.5 a/f.

Try launching at zero with more air in your tires and see how it effects your 60'. This will keep the alky from spraying at launch. Good luck

Bryan

Thanks will definitely pull the rear drums and check it out to see if there's any leaks. But you say you launched at 0 psi, did you have a good loose converter to do this?

Looks like MAF dropouts too.

You can test for intake leaks by getting a 3" rubber cap for drain pipes at Home Depot and putting a tire valve in it. Clamp it on the turbo. Take off the valve covers and the rocker arm shafts. Pump it up to 20 or so lbs and find the leaks. Could be clamps, intercooler, doghouse, vacuum lines but you'll find something somewhere. As far as the drag radials go I'm good with 20 lbs. Lower than that doesn't help, makes it worse really.

Thanks, wished I knew this on the drag radials. :redface:

 

[INEEDAGN]

So, you have hydroboost conversion, and it pushed through the brakes at the line, and on the way home your hydroboost was acting up.....

Sounds like you need to check out your power steering/hydroboost setup. I'm not knocking the hydroboost, I'm just saying, it might be screwing up somewhere, causing you to push through the brakes. This won't explain anything else that others are pointing out, but it will cause your 60' to suck, if you can't hold boost at the line. ESPECIALLY if it used to work fine this way, and now it won't hold.

 

[tonka]

Looking at the last run you posted, I would suggest:
1)160 deg T-stat, your coolant temp is pretty high compared to what most run--if your tranny cooler still goes through the radiator, your probably needlessly overheating the tranny fluid.
2)Not leaving the car running all the way through staging lanes, as your IAT reading hints you might be doing--that can really kill spoolup.
3)If that is the burnout at the beginning of the last recording, try keeping wheel speed below 55 while doing the burnout, might be overheating the center of the tread.

 

[gusszgs]

On DR's when they are under inflated, your contact patch % will be on the outside edges of the tire. The tire is "cupping"
Over inflation will cause the tire to wear in the center more.

 

[Phoneguy]

Thanks will definitely pull the rear drums and check it out to see if there's any leaks. But you say you launched at 0 psi, did you have a good loose converter to do this?



Thanks, wished I knew this on the drag radials. :redface:

My converter is a PTC 9.5" NLU spec'd by Dusty. I haven't actually watched to see what it flashes at but I would say about 3800 but it drives around town like a stocker. THE best converter you can buy in my opinion. HUGE difference changing from the Art Carr I had. If my tranny had been shifting at 6200 instead of 5400 it would have run a better number than it did but for just working on tuning it in it ran very good. 555 hp 553 tq running pig rich.

Bryan

 

[TRICKSIXPA]

I'm pretty new to racing with my turbo Buick. After reading this looks like I'm having some of the same issues. Did you identify your combo thou??? Stock Converter so far.
Turbo? What size Mickeys 26 or 28" ?

 

[YouLikeThat]

Thanks, wished I knew this on the drag radials. :redface:

Dave,
16-20 psi is a good range for radials. More PSI might work but here are some real world results.

My brother cuts 1.2x 60' on a 275/60/15 (hoosier) @16psi

Jason Hoard cuts 1.3x 60' on a 275/60/15 (hoosier) @16ps

and I cut a 1.54 on a 295/45/17 (Mickey Thompson) @18psi on a 11.96 pass.

 

["Turbo-T"]

So, you have hydroboost conversion, and it pushed through the brakes at the line, and on the way home your hydroboost was acting up.....

Sounds like you need to check out your power steering/hydroboost setup. I'm not knocking the hydroboost, I'm just saying, it might be screwing up somewhere, causing you to push through the brakes. This won't explain anything else that others are pointing out, but it will cause your 60' to suck, if you can't hold boost at the line. ESPECIALLY if it used to work fine this way, and now it won't hold.

Thanks, I was wondering if what happened was the power steering fluid for some reason overheated. There's a little hole dead center of the reservoir cap where I believe it came out at. Last night after the car cooled down I sucked all the fluid out of the reservoir with an old turkey baster, and put fresh fluid in, fired it up and no noises or anything. The brakes and steering seem fine now, and not whining and grunting like it's on death row.

Looking at the last run you posted, I would suggest:
1)160 deg T-stat, your coolant temp is pretty high compared to what most run--if your tranny cooler still goes through the radiator, your probably needlessly overheating the tranny fluid.
2)Not leaving the car running all the way through staging lanes, as your IAT reading hints you might be doing--that can really kill spoolup.
3)If that is the burnout at the beginning of the last recording, try keeping wheel speed below 55 while doing the burnout, might be overheating the center of the tread.

The T stat thats in it right now I'm almost certain is a 160 degree stat. In the winter time the temp doesn't usually get past 160. Summer time is a different story. I don't know if that's normal, to get 30-40 degrees warmer on a summer day than the t stat is rated to open at, or not. The temp has climbed as high as 207 degrees before during a drive in hot weather, usually when the a/c is also going. (No i didn't have the a/c on at the track, big no-no.)

I don't let the car sit and idle in the staging lanes, i only run it enough to move it to. However unlike the Fayetteville NC track I used to frequent, KCIR doesn't have a sloping downhill lane so you can coast the car down until it's time to pull into the water box.

I'm pretty new to racing with my turbo Buick. After reading this looks like I'm having some of the same issues. Did you identify your combo thou??? Stock Converter so far.
Turbo? What size Mickeys 26 or 28" ?

The Mickeys are 26 inch tall. (275/50 R15's). Turbo is a TE60. 7 blades.

 

[1fast6]

sounds like a combination of alky coming in on the line(7psi) and the trans/converter is going away.
How old is the trans and converter? Also, the longer you sit at the line building/holding boost the hotter the trans gets which will result in slippage.

 

[Razor]

The TE60 is like a 44. That D5 is killing you. A simple orange stripe or re-stalled D5/D6 2800-3000 would wake up the bottom end.

Your mph is low for the boost your running, but the tight converter doesn't help out either. You should be at least 110-112 MPH. Try locking the converter?

Don't overlook stupid stuff like the air filter being clogged. Been there and had the same issue.

Leave the alky alone. Your trying to make up for a too tight converter by moving everything else around.

Lastly drag radials should only need a simple clean up at your power level. 16-18 psi should be fine. Launching at 4-6 psi boost should put the car in the 1.6-1.7 range. Get a little smoke from them at the edge of the burnout box. Never inside the water.

 

[Razor]

Wanted to add... Car is picking up 20-21 on the back end of the track. I don't think springs are the problem. The 330 and 660 are weak. That is boost control and converter killing the car.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

3psi @ 2800rpm (your launch) = Converter not matched to Combo's needs

It sounds like a true stock D5, others tend to still say "Stock D5" even after it's a restalled one. Your 60ft is doomed with the "Stock D5" like Razor mentioned and you might need to move your Alky turn on after you get the converter worked out if it's still a dog.

A 275/50 should be easy to spin, free up more backpressure in the Exhaust and Intake to make this happen.

 

["Turbo-T"]

3psi @ 2800rpm (your launch) = Converter not matched to Combo's needs

It sounds like a true stock D5, others tend to still say "Stock D5" even after it's a restalled one. Your 60ft is doomed with the "Stock D5" like Razor mentioned and you might need to move your Alky turn on after you get the converter worked out if it's still a dog.

A 275/50 should be easy to spin, free up more backpressure in the Exhaust and Intake to make this happen.

Thanks, I actually have a pretty free flowing exhaust (3 inch THDP, no cat, 3 inch str8 shot exhaust, Ultraflow muffler). I do still have stock headers and stock crossover pipe though. Intake side has Dutt neck IC and that's it.

But point taken on the converter, no more track time for me until a higher stall converter is installed.

The TE60 is like a 44. That D5 is killing you. A simple orange stripe or re-stalled D5/D6 2800-3000 would wake up the bottom end.

Your mph is low for the boost your running, but the tight converter doesn't help out either. You should be at least 110-112 MPH. Try locking the converter?

Don't overlook stupid stuff like the air filter being clogged. Been there and had the same issue.

Leave the alky alone. Your trying to make up for a too tight converter by moving everything else around.

Lastly drag radials should only need a simple clean up at your power level. 16-18 psi should be fine. Launching at 4-6 psi boost should put the car in the 1.6-1.7 range. Get a little smoke from them at the edge of the burnout box. Never inside the water.

Razor no I didn't lock the converter....what gear should I lock the converter in when racing? And what's the bennies of locking the converter during racing? Also does locking the converter while racing introduce a chance for knock?

Thanx for the burnout tip.

 

[Razor]

Razor no I didn't lock the converter....what gear should I lock the converter in when racing? And what's the bennies of locking the converter during racing? Also does locking the converter while racing introduce a chance for knock?

Thanx for the burnout tip.

I would start locking it after the burnout. When car hits second gear it will be locked. Unlock it when you cross the traps..

Or lock it in 3rd gear like 80 MPH.

Try and see.. but get another converter

 

[TurboDave]

Locking the conveerter at the track:

Some advice from somebody that did it for MANY years.

First, and most importantly is, DONT do it unless you've got a converter especially designed for WOT lock up's!! A single disk converter wont handle that abuse for very long.

Second, the worst time to do it is at the liine. When the converter locks on the 1-2 shift it will drag your rpms down far below the power curve and will really bog you down, costing both et and mph. Unless you're running a single disk converter not designed for it, it will slip badly enough that it may or may not cost you that badly in rpm.

Third, at some point if you do end up with a converter that can handle WOT lock ups (multi disk), then the best lockup point is a couple seconds after the 2-3 shift (you never want it locked during an up shift, too miuch rpm drop). I always had mine set in the chip to lock up at about 89mph.
Worked out great, and my non lock mph went from 114 up to a locked mph of 117.5

Just saying... single disk converter---wot lockups = toasted clutch in less than a season.

 

[Razor]

Locking the conveerter at the track:

Some advice from somebody that did it for MANY years.

First, and most importantly is, DONT do it unless you've got a converter especially designed for WOT lock up's!! A single disk converter wont handle that abuse for very long.

Second, the worst time to do it is at the liine. When the converter locks on the 1-2 shift it will drag your rpms down far below the power curve and will really bog you down, costing both et and mph. Unless you're running a single disk converter not designed for it, it will slip badly enough that it may or may not cost you that badly in rpm.

Third, at some point if you do end up with a converter that can handle WOT lock ups (multi disk), then the best lockup point is a couple seconds after the 2-3 shift (you never want it locked during an up shift, too miuch rpm drop). I always had mine set in the chip to lock up at about 89mph.
Worked out great, and my non lock mph went from 114 up to a locked mph of 117.5

Just saying... single disk converter---wot lockups = toasted clutch in less than a season.

Guys got a D5 on a mid-high 12 second Buick.

Locking the converter is a non-issue.. done it a thousand times. Been done since the cars where new in 87 as one of those simple mods. What do you think the "paper clip trick" was on the aldl port.

Locking it at the line has never been an issue on a stock motor car. This is how you get a stock engine into the 10's as keeping the rpm's down lets the factory cam work.

The D5 is a single disc converter.. can be locked up 1000's of times with no issues. hence my suggestion for an orange stripe or re-stalled 12 inch converter.

What you need to be more specific on is "aftermarket" 9 or 10 inch single disc converters. As they have smaller clutches. And cant hold being locked up. Only exception is the Precision multi-disc. 5 disc.

back to tech

 

[TurboDave]

Guys got a D5 on a mid-high 12 second Buick.

Locking the converter is a non-issue.. done it a thousand times. Been done since the cars where new in 87 as one of those simple mods. What do you think the "paper clip trick" was on the aldl port.

Locking it at the line has never been an issue on a stock motor car. This is how you get a stock engine into the 10's as keeping the rpm's down lets the factory cam work.

The D5 is a single disc converter.. can be locked up 1000's of times with no issues. hence my suggestion for an orange stripe or re-stalled 12 inch converter.

What you need to be more specific on is "aftermarket" 9 or 10 inch single disc converters. As they have smaller clutches. And cant hold being locked up. Only exception is the Precision multi-disc. 5 disc.

back to tech

My comments were regarding a D5 converter, on my car, which I doubt is fast enough to scare anybody. And I'll stand by my comments. If you do any kind of data logging at all, and you consistently WOT lock a stock D5 at the track. You will see it wear out over the course of a race season. The rpm drop at WOT lockup, will start degrading (become less and less over time).

1,000's of lockups without damage??? Cant happen.

I've seen what can happen to a stock converter by data logging over the course of several seasons.

I'll stand by my comments.

 

[Grumpy]

been locking up my junk D5s since 1986.. Never had any problems . Never burnt out a clutch in any of my beaters.. To this day I drive with the LU switch close to me :biggrin: We have an old PTS 9/11 (Bruces) in Melissa's street GN.. 138+ LOCKED UP !! I think it has about 18/20k on it right now. Hasn't missed a beat ..
..Back to the D5s. D5s can take a BEATING .. Of course a good trans cooler is also used.. Hell my old 92 Buick Turbo wagon runs a modified D5 (2800) .. Lock up that thing an the car just pulls. These cars were low to mid 11 street cars. Yup... EVERYONE has opinions
Like Julio said "leave the alky alone"

 

[moose]

The TE60 is like a 44. That D5 is killing you. A simple orange stripe or re-stalled D5/D6 2800-3000 would wake up the bottom end.

Your mph is low for the boost your running, but the tight converter doesn't help out either. You should be at least 110-112 MPH. Try locking the converter?

Don't overlook stupid stuff like the air filter being clogged. Been there and had the same issue.

Leave the alky alone. Your trying to make up for a too tight converter by moving everything else around.

Lastly drag radials should only need a simple clean up at your power level. 16-18 psi should be fine. Launching at 4-6 psi boost should put the car in the 1.6-1.7 range. Get a little smoke from them at the edge of the burnout box. Never inside the water.

I was having terrible 60' issues with mine so i went with a 3000 non lockup in mine and my 60' times dropped dramatically but i am running a TE61. I am a firm believer that with your setup a converter will amaze you. We only have eighth mile tracks here and my 8th mile ET dropped 8 tenths after the converter swap. Just my 2 cents. I agree with Julio.