Carnage........Whats your take?

Where was the Go-Pro camera when you needed them the most!
Caps did their job, didn't break. Gotta point there...
I didn't see the head gaskets, but with all that damage...who cares if the damn gaskets lasted!
Its clear there was "some detonation".
Stick the heads and cam in another stock short block, and get it back going.
 
This is a perfect example of why you dont waste money building up an engine with a stock crank. The crank broke, now everything is junk. There is no point pointing fingers at anyone because we dont know if the majority of the stress on the crank was from 2 months or 2 decades ago. Point the finger at the person who said "run a stock crank and use steel caps to 'hold' it in place". If you had a steel crank and stock caps, you would probably still be driving the car listening to 2chainz with the volume knob all the way up.
 
"Building up"? You mean billet caps? This was not a high dollar build, stock 4.1 with hyper pistons isn't expensive. It's not like it has $1000 pistons and a girdle going to waste here (builds like that with a stock crank DO exist). Stock junk "done blowed up". Shit happens. Audi P needs a shortblock.
 
Now that steel cranks are not as abundant as they were before using a stock crank is the only option for many. The steel caps on the stock crank has been done for years as a way to strengthen the bottom end. I know ANS performance in Melrose Park did a ton of them that way. These were 11/12 second cars. Fast back then. The only ones who had steel cranks back then were the big dollar engines. Mid tens and a few high nine second cars. No girdles, Eagle, BA, Cat, cranks. So it still carries on with some other practices to the TR world. Like the need for 10mm wires, underdrive pulleys, aluminum driveshafts, 70mm Tb, and a front mount on a 12 second car!
 
jasjamz, I agree to a point. The cranks then were not 25+ years old with thousands of cycles on them. Most of the stock cranks today are far more compromised, Also turbos today are quite different and the load at low rpms is much higher, we are not using crazy loose converters either anymore. The idea that just because we did it then may no longer apply. IMO the stock crank just failed, it was likely not flawed in some way it just got tired. The reason most stock caps break is because the stock crank flexes, billet caps hold it in but do not stop the flex, add detonation and this is what you will see. Hyper pistons have a habit of sort of exploding when they fail so it is hard to say what happen there but I am quite sure the crank is the root of this problem. Nick is right on with what he wrote acouple pages back. FYI Steel cranks are very easy to get if you want one.
 
It's threads like these that make me think that I will never be faster than 11's. I like my low mileage, numbers-matching, stock engine just the way it is... reliable, and in one piece.

Maybe a second car some day...

All kidding and opinions aside, sorry this happened to you, and good luck with the rebuild.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Turbo Buick
 
It's threads like these that make me think that I will never be faster than 11's. I like my low mileage, numbers-matching, stock engine just the way it is... reliable, and in one piece.

Maybe a second car some day...

All kidding and opinions aside, sorry this happened to you, and good luck with the rebuild.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Turbo Buick
Build yourself a gorilla that dosent mind beating its fists on its chest then take original old reliable out sit it in a corner in a plastic bag.....That way if you make like a mustang and drive over the crankshaft and decide not to build another one then you still got the original unhurt and ready to reinstall.....
 
Build yourself a gorilla that dosent mind beating its fists on its chest then take original old reliable out sit it in a corner in a plastic bag.....That way if you make like a mustang and drive over the crankshaft and decide not to build another one then you still got the original unhurt and ready to reinstall.....

Bingo. My original block and transmission are stored.

Bryan
 
I have the 109 block. Sitting in the corner. I think I'm going to see just how much life it has left in it. It has taken everything I have thrown at it so far. Where are the holding this turbo Buick tuning 101 class? This home schooling is expensive.
 
Where are the holding this turbo Buick tuning 101 class? This home schooling is expensive.
That aint no lie !!! I have had more than my share of bad luck, just havent windowed one ....yet. Best of luck to you !!

Bryan
 
HOLY SHIT Jeremy...

I haven't seen something that destroyed since my Aunt Dorothy attacked a case of HoHo's after she tried P90X...she lasted 9 min!!!

Something failed...and it was going to happen no matter what. Chain reaction after that. I didn't read all the responses, but whatever went wrong first, was going to go wrong no matter what the tune or condition. If it were something that most of us fear as common issues with our engines...there would be more photos like these.
This is an isolated incident.
When my Isky roller cam broke in my 409...it caused about $12,000 in damage. Ruined a 7000 mile 409 crate block from 1964.
 
This is a perfect example of why you dont waste money building up an engine with a stock crank. The crank broke, now everything is junk. There is no point pointing fingers at anyone because we dont know if the majority of the stress on the crank was from 2 months or 2 decades ago. Point the finger at the person who said "run a stock crank and use steel caps to 'hold' it in place". If you had a steel crank and stock caps, you would probably still be driving the car listening to 2chainz with the volume knob all the way up.

I could not agree more. Very well said.........
 
seen that before... Turns out a reputable shop used a NA crank in a build that they also but a 66 turbo on.. turns out one of them did not make it lol..all 6 rods,, 4 pisions, block, both heads all wasted... over cheaping out on a crank...

These old cars are getting to the point that new parts are in order for hi stress area's
 
After spending several hours at the machine shop, a one point there were 6 different machinists looking and discussing what they were seeing....the consensus was it certainly was NOT: hyper piston failure, excessive detonation,(although sings of minor detonation were present...none of them felt it was the cause), main cap failure, oiling, or clearances. The general consensus was the cylinder pressure in #6 was enough to crack the cyl wall, thus sucking in a large amount of coolant into the combustion chamber, and hydraulicing (so to speak in their terms)....the piston couldn't compress the fluid so the energy was all focused on the crank...and the rest is history. There were no tell-tale signs of previous crank fatigue or major detonation. Pics to follow.
 
No offense to those who posted about a steel crank, yes thats you Surej, but we all know that stock Turbo cranks will last in a 10 second build. Yes some are stressed beyond the point of no return, but most lower mile turbo cranks will do fine for most regular applications. I dont buy the fact that if you rebuild your motor, you must go with a steel crank. I do agree a steel crank is the way to go if you dont mind spending the extra money for one though. In my opinion, a STD/STD turbo crank is going to hold up just fine for most people out there. You have to remember, not everyone is out to run 9's. This motor should have lasted for what Austin was planning to use it for. On the other hand, I dont know if any motor will hold up to Austin's high abusive ways but the funny thing is, he's beating the ever living piss out of a completely stock 109 shortblock that he got from me with 86K miles on it. He's put many many more miles on that motor since he bought it and all those miles were miles from hell. I dont know how many headgaskets he's blown, I really honestly dont. It seemed like that motor was getting pulled every other weekend for a while there. If a stock crank, stock caps, completely stock shortblock can take that tremendous amount of abuse, I'd say a stock Turbo crank is fine to a point. When we changed bearings on that shortblock, the original bearings still looked fantastic.

Just trying to point this out because there are a lot of uneducated/unexperienced readers out there that get scared of everything they read. Not all stock turbo cranks are worthless. Hell, I'm pretty sure there has been a 109 with Hypers and an NA crank in the 9's. Cant remember the guys name but he's on the board. I think most of everything comes down to a good tune and a good build with good clearences, good balance, and good geometery. Then of coarse a good tune to top it off.
 
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