Before Black BS'ing thread.

[dr_frankenstein]

Well now that I've had a laugh what's going on Aj?

ive ported the snot out of the cover, milled and milled and worked and worked........ I just cant get more flow out of it.... that stupid 90* foot is whats killing us... at max mass flow (assumed) using water as a media, the foot actually cause the wonderful atomized water to turn back into big fat sorry ass droplets. turns and twist are our biggest enemy.... i cant improve it.... im about 2 steps from slinging the dam thing out the window.

The setup, but mainly the box. Is there a way to adjust sensitivity or is it programmed to factory specs? From the Turbobrick forums its for a Volvo.

sensitivity is adjusted inside the box, by replacing resistors you adjust where you want the knock sensitivity to occur. this isnt just a plug in and go.... it does take some work. it was originally designed to work on volvos, but read the first paragraph again, there is a stand alone unit.

I play with electronics alot, so maybe this seems easy to me.... look at the little box......... see the different output leads? notice the 2 that say LED + and LED - ?

the purpose of these 2 leads is to hook up to a regular LED.... the more the light flashes.... the more knock your inducing. SO.................................................. heres how I make it work, and I will provide some pics. we know that these 2 ports output voltage as knock is sensed, by using these 2 leads you can wire them directly to a MSD MultiStage retard. everytime it tosses out a 12V signal for what would be the LED, it will trigger the multistage retard, which can be dialed in 2*, 3*, 4* increments.

bam. knock detection with retard protection. simple.... basic..... but it works. the catch is determining at what level the sensitivity needs to be at. this is where tuning ability become crucial as you need to be able to determine actual knock from engine noise. reading plugs, watching EGTs, inspecting exhaust ports is going to be very very important.

 

[charlief1]

When you say wet flow are you talking about straight water flow Aj or is it a mixture of air and water?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

When you say wet flow are you talking about straight water flow Aj or is it a mixture of air and water?

its a mixture, I use a hilborn nozzle to spray the water and the air intakes just threw the plenum with no carb attached. Idea being this simulates best case scenario of large carb at WOT. exhaust energy is simulated using data recorded from a pressure port of up pipe. 4 leaf blowers get the spool up to simular WOT pressure readings. airflow measured 12 inches from discharge through a clear plastic pipe using simple air speed meter. boost is simulated by capping the end of clear pipe with various size holes to create different amounts of restriction.

not exactly super accurate....... but my eyes can see the water blob up as it slams into that 90* turn.

im ditching the cover. just not yet, I will see what max I can squeeze from it. a straight shot right down the intake with an adapter to use a regular turbo is the ticket. not going to be something for the stock intake, but for max effort draw thru... this is it!

 

[charlief1]

This may sound a little crazy but try putting some window screen in between the foot and the intake Aj. I think you'll find some interesting results.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

This may sound a little crazy but try putting some window screen in between the foot and the intake Aj. I think you'll find some interesting results.

I thoughts the same thing. since I had seen some intake gaskets that were like that.... seems like a crutch to me though...

your thoughts?

 

[charlief1]

I thoughts the same thing. since I had seen some intake gaskets that were like that.... seems like a crutch to me though...

your thoughts?

It was done in the 80's for improving mileage and it did well and helps bottom end torque so it's worth a try at least. It does restrict the top a bit but not enough to matter from what I remember.

 

[usetaboost]

aj, is it possible to cut the foot off and use the flange and redesign the contours so it flows better or is it just the size of the hole in the intake that is hampering flow? I know you've already done a lot of work to the housing but what's a little more lol

 

[dr_frankenstein]

aj, is it possible to cut the foot off and use the flange and redesign the contours so it flows better or is it just the size of the hole in the intake that is hampering flow? I know you've already done a lot of work to the housing but what's a little more lol

absolutly it would be possible! anything that provides relief to that 90* angle is power in the making!

however........................... comma, lmao

its kinda beating your head aganst the door. im going to work on making an adapter that will simply place the turbo outlet straight down, into the intake. the biggest problem with the new config will be moving all the chit around, everything will come forward about 6 inches.... which really sucks - cause even im running out of hood clearance. but i want that goal. i want it damn bad. i want the fastest buick draw thru -period. I'll do what ever it takes to get me there..........

i think im getting alittle obsessed at this point.

 

[usetaboost]

are the carb turbo parts really that more restrictive than the hot air? I don't see why the carb cars can't go as fast as the hot airs. Is it lack of fuel injection? We all know the carb isn't the part holding these cars back that's for sure.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

are the carb turbo parts really that more restrictive than the hot air? I don't see why the carb cars can't go as fast as the hot airs. Is it lack of fuel injection? We all know the carb isn't the part holding these cars back that's for sure.

yes and no........ the turbo housing and the intake are probably the worst offenders. What muddles the whole deal is that its a wet flow system... a completly different set of problems. fuel sheers off and re forms when its forced to turn more than it should, causing fall out and puddles. the HA cars dont have this issue because there turbo and intake move nuthing but air. the stock intake isnt a wonderful straight shot like it should be, lots of turns and narrow runners. the 90* foot on the compressor housing makes that sharp turn right into the intake... compounding the problem.

furthermore, the fact a carb is in front of the turbo creates a special situation when spool is of concern. it requires a little less than 2/3s more exhaust energy to spool the turbo at the same rate of a turbo with no restriction at its inlet. no matter how open the assumed carb is, even at WOT there is a vaccum of around 1.5-2"hg present at the inlet, this is where carb size and booster relationship become extremly crucial. you need a carb rated to as low pressure drop possible with a booster that can flow the fuel requirement without over restricting the inlet of the turbo.

the math boggles my simple mind alot.... but i have that glimmer of hope

 

[charlief1]

Like Aj said, it's a yes and no situation. With the fuel mixed in it cools the air as it gets compressed but as it gets compressed and cooled fuel starts to drop out. As the droplets hit the foot the theory is that the fuel should turn back into a fine mist but from what Aj's been saying it doesn't happen this way. I wonder if you used rubbing alcohol (sp) instead of water if it would change what you're seeing Aj. It atomizes better than water but shouldn't be as flamable after all.

 

[Ashley]

Please excuse the ignorance if more than a little is present, but what about "phenolic spacers" on our cars, given the extreme insulating nature of the material. I have no clue when a higher/lower temp is necessary to prevent de-atomization/aid in atomiation of the mixture on hot air wet cars, so I'm just throwing this out there. There are several points where one can be added, and all without adding bends. Carb to elbow manifold, elbow manifold to turbo, turbo to intake, and intake to heads. All except the intake to heads would be relatively easy to fabricate with a dremmel and router attachment. The hood clearance, and issues with piping lining up would depend on what MM thickness is used...but only on the intake manifold to head, and turbo to intake manifold.

A rear hood spacer like the import crowd uses would possibly aid in clearance. 3/4 inch could go a long way. A wull-tuft test would be needed to see how far out from the center a block off would need to be added. without one, air would cram in the engine bay. Cant confirm, but I read the high pressure tapers off as it gets closer to the fender, it might/might not aid in excavating heat if left partially open. Which could lead to another option, not that there's much room for it, but a cowl intake in place of a block off plate feeding a snorkel to a redesigned air filter housing and a aftermarket carb hat.

It's nice to have a BS thread. let's ideas get thrown out there without cluttering up the forum.

 

[charlief1]

One of the issues we've got is getting enough heat to aid in atomizing the fuel right. To much and it creates detonation and to little and the fuel drops out and that can damage the turbo. In the 80's there was an interesting salt flats car made out of a Skyhawk. The interesting thing to it was that they made the intake out of fiberglass to reduce weight and heat for the air/fuel mix. If I remember right it ran in 1 of the B stock class and set a record at the time. Don't know if it would be possible to make a new version for turbo power but it would be interesting.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Please excuse the ignorance if more than a little is present, but what about "phenolic spacers" on our cars, given the extreme insulating nature of the material. I have no clue when a higher/lower temp is necessary to prevent de-atomization/aid in atomiation of the mixture on hot air wet cars, so I'm just throwing this out there. There are several points where one can be added, and all without adding bends. Carb to elbow manifold, elbow manifold to turbo, turbo to intake, and intake to heads. All except the intake to heads would be relatively easy to fabricate with a dremmel and router attachment. The hood clearance, and issues with piping lining up would depend on what MM thickness is used...but only on the intake manifold to head, and turbo to intake manifold.

A rear hood spacer like the import crowd uses would possibly aid in clearance. 3/4 inch could go a long way. A wull-tuft test would be needed to see how far out from the center a block off would need to be added. without one, air would cram in the engine bay. Cant confirm, but I read the high pressure tapers off as it gets closer to the fender, it might/might not aid in excavating heat if left partially open. Which could lead to another option, not that there's much room for it, but a cowl intake in place of a block off plate feeding a snorkel to a redesigned air filter housing and a aftermarket carb hat.

It's nice to have a BS thread. let's ideas get thrown out there without cluttering up the forum.

I see where your going with this, and i could see it being some help later on in the street time efforts of these motors.

I avoid heat like the plague. if I start seeing ice on the carb I know what im doing is right. (for my situation) I have found that the icing is a direct display of your atomization abilitys. if your seeing it, its making the fuel fine enough to evaporate and remove latent heat from the plenum.

the problem is in the action of the turbo compression. just like water in an air compressor, fuel condensates when compressed. this problem is further compounded by the terrible compressor housing.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Weekend Teaser

 

[dr_frankenstein]

WOW.......... carb stuff must be too hardcore for the ricers here in my town.... i just got banned from my local street race forum........ aint that a bitch? lmao oh well.......... back to being bored.

 

[MNcarbturbo]

Were you calling them out saying your carbed drawthough that spins at 6000 makes more power then their high tech honda that spins 15000 RPM and makes 90 PSI.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Were you calling them out saying your carbed drawthough that spins at 6000 makes more power then their high tech honda that spins 15000 RPM and makes 90 PSI.

thats whats funny, it wasnt even a call out.... there was a guy who is doing a draw thru VW on that forum, had alot of questions about it... so I filled them in.... he was happy, but others thought i was full of shit... cause we all know well, there is no way a carb turbo can go faster then 13s.... I posted a link from our B4B and pow, I got the boot.

nobody said a thing after the link........ just kicked me out. I guess a 12sec 3800lb car scares the crap out of them.

 

[charlief1]

There's got to be some sort of monetary reason Aj. Someone's making some $ off that board and directing over to this one means they loose.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

no they just didnt like our ugly crap. I got an email from the vw guy asking to hang out and learn some more. i think there alittle afraid of a carb getting the best of em.....

lol

its friday! HAA!!!