83 Regal into Turbo

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Gents, Have an 83 Regal and want to put a turbo on it.. Have a standard 4 barrel manifold on it / am drowning the motor with gas now / and do have a older setup off an older GN with a 4 barrel on it and a turbo that bolts to the side of it blowing under it. This whole setup normally just bolts on top of a GN manifold with one big hole in it... I was just thinking, If I had a piece machined at a machine shop that would adapt this to my four barrel carb I would be in fat city and could hook this thing up... I have the turbo exhaust pipes for this setup too..and even have a intercooler.. Now the big problem..I see MSD has a special spark retard box that automatically retards the spark according to the boost and am thinking about that... It seems like this setup requirs a anti knock sensor which I do not have or is not even included in my wiring harness since this motor only had a 2 barrel carb and I actually ripped out the old computer and all the wiring going to the motor ...The old carb was computer controlled and didn't work worth a crap.
So will this motor come apart like a pinyata once I put the huffer on it or what??

 

[justin84]

My initial guess would be yes, it will come apart. The compression ratios are completely different.

 

[mat231v6]

Are you looking for something like this? some guy on ebay was selling it. it was so you could put a blewthru set up on a edelbrock intake thats what he said on the post. To me it just looks like a plate with holes drilled into it and the three center holes are tapped. i just dont know how you get the oil back to the motor as well as fit it under the hood.

 

[charlief1]

You'll need to talk to dr_frakenstein (Aj). That's what he's running on his truck right now but he's in the desert now, testing some stuff for the military. He can tell you what you need to know. It works well but using the 4 barrel intake requires a bigger turbo like the one I've been working on. Take a look at the second link in my sig if you want an idea of how it works.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Thats some interesting stuff, you have me thinking now...why spend all that time with a used stock turbo, when I could just get one killer turbo and adapt that to fit...I have seen a couple around for a cummings diesel but I think they might spool up a little too slow and there are some big ones out there that are much lighter and built better....I could even put some heat disapators fins on the riser to keep the air cooler...did you ever hear that there is more potential for a carb to produce more power than a injected verson because the fuel will have more chance to mix better with the air and cool it better?? Well anyway I have a machine shop a few blocks from my house and I know most of the guys there. If I can draw it or explain it, they can make it..

 

[charlief1]

Thats some interesting stuff, you have me thinking now...why spend all that time with a used stock turbo, when I could just get one killer turbo and adapt that to fit...I have seen a couple around for a cummings diesel but I think they might spool up a little too slow and there are some big ones out there that are much lighter and built better....I could even put some heat disapators fins on the riser to keep the air cooler...did you ever hear that there is more potential for a carb to produce more power than a injected verson because the fuel will have more chance to mix better with the air and cool it better?? Well anyway I have a machine shop a few blocks from my house and I know most of the guys there. If I can draw it or explain it, they can make it..

The biggest issue that's out there is keeping the spool factor. that's one of the reasons I went the way I did. The 86-87 exhaust housing works the best and the 301 TTA intake side will allow for the most compression without restricting power. The best of both worlds. Look up Donwg in the alky section. He's got a thread that's kinda long but worth the read. It's called "advancement of fuel delivery" and he's acheived ALS with his set up. A 224 CID eninge and 91mm turbo if you can believe it. Take a look and I think it may help you some.:biggrin:

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

I think this is for putting a different turbo on that extension manifold next to the four Barrel..good idea too, but its still just a small round hole not a true adaptor, more of just a bolt relocation plate. I am talking about more of a free flowing thick stand off to smoothly allow one different size opening to flow into a different size opening.. almost like adapting a four barrel carb to a two barrel manifold, that would be kind of crazy, but sort of...

 

[dr_frankenstein]

the adapter is simple.... the flow is tremendous.

the problem is finding a good size turbo with a carbon seal.

I would show my adapter, but im getting it copyrighted first.

A.j.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

I don't blame you for copyrighting it...?? You mean getting a patten don't you..Isn't a copyright just for writings and works of art, film, photos ect.. ?? Anyway, I really think that Carbs have been way unterestimated when it comes to turbos...Carbs could figure out the right mixture automatically as compared to the nightmare with EFI and doing a computerized dance between air pressure/ air volume and demand...When this block blows apart I will probably put in a 454chev...from what I read is that it one of the strongest blocks ever made I think it has the has one of the most head bolts in it too.. But there are a few aluminum GN blocks out there that look good too.. but then there are some 454 aluminium blocks out there too.. If the buicks only had more head bolts in them it could be a real pressure cooker..

 

[dr_frankenstein]

lol yea a patent..... only because mine is kinda interchangable in a different kinda way... i will elaborate in about 4 weeks. LOL as for a regular plate that will bolt the stock turbo on.... its a great idea, and will offer you the pattern for it if you like... I cant claim that as mine.

Well the way I see it, was emissions was what forced the draw thru into extinction. as there is way more technology that can be applied to these systems before they reach there limit. excpet nobody really has the intrest.

I wouldnt imagine your block would fail until you being to reach the 650-700 hp mark with proper tuning. so dont give up yet.

im not a fan of weight so I dont personally see any advantage to run a 454. just a fatter kid to push harder.

A.j.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Huffin on the V6

Yes your right about all that extra weight with the 454...If I could get that little v6 to scream, I will forget about the 454. What kind of an Intake manifold gasket could really handle 30 pounds of boost?? I would think they would all blow out ...was almost thinking of a soft metal or something or even steel like those old exhaust manifold gaskets. I see you mentioned carbon..to me carbon is burned wood, I know its great for a high heat application..ever try to cut a piece of wood with a oxy torch?/ It doesn't burn...she turns to carbon and the carbon acts like a shield.
Well I have a 750 cfm holly that needs a rebuild, my first one was a real boat anchor going to deep 6 that after I take out that rebuild kit I put in it. I am hopping that it was the bad carb that was drouning that motor..wouldn't run below 2000 rpm...then she started running at full throttle with the butterflies closed...go figure...had to turn the key off to stop her from blowing up.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

well the stock intake gaskets hold up quite well... As the draw thru system wont offer much more than about 18lbs of pressure before heat and detonation becomes an issue, so the gaskets are of no concern.

The hardest part of making the mainfold switch is building new brackets to support the turbo assembly... its a slow and tedious process. ive broken many a foot off of the turbos so the brackets are a must. The other pitfall is the modification needed to be done to the exhaust up and down pipe. depending on the choosen intake, the heights vary and the pipes must follow as well.

The problem I had with the use of this plate, was the stock turbo itself runs out of volume fairly quick. it will get you about 8lbs of boost but at that point, its all hot air. which is why I was saying its hard to find a turbo to match the added flow ability of the better intake but still have the carbon seal.

making power form the draw thru is not an easy task.... it takes alot of patience and willing tuning.

A.j.

 

[mat231v6]

do you guys have any pic of what your talking about? sounds like a good idea but has it been done?

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

adaptor tunnel??

Well as soon as I find a killer turbo I will know what adaptor tunnel to have fabed up then I will post it on this site. I know what I dont want is one of those turbos with a divider in the middle of the output. If I could get one with an output that is roughly the size of a 4 barrel carb I think I will be in fat city..then I could cut those four holes in the top of my manifold for the quad and make it one large square hole, and use the manifold for a pressure pot....I have seen some really rad turbos for $1600 bucks but don't want to spend that kind of money. Looking for a surplus thing or an used one in decent shape. This way if this whole project turns out to be a bust I won't loose my shirt and pants too..

 

[WkillGS]

Concerning the factory turbo with the 90 degree elbow at the outlet:
Any idea why they did it this way? It looks like it would flow much better if they would've rotated the turbo forward and blew it straight into the manifold (no elbow)
Was it merely a hood clearance/fit issue that positioned the turbo where they did?

I was once thinking of using a standard style turbo with a thermostat housing at the outlet to make the 90 degree bend into the intake manifold.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Cheap Way out

It was the cheap way out..I could imagine they allready spend a ton of money on this thing on R&D, You have to start drawing the line somewhere.. It would of been nice if they would of had some kind of a over sized cast aluminum funnel housing ..to create more air force...but then you would need a few more engineers, draftsman, and more testing... if I had more money maybe I could design a ufo and really experiance some real "Gs"/// The last really fast car I was in was a Hemi aluminum body dodge..did wheel stands with just touching the gas..you had to breathe between shifts, only time that load of Gs was off your chest.. ahhhh good old days.... They don't make cars like that anymore...

 

[WarWagon]

Sorry guys Been busy.
Walt the foot on the turbo of the carb turbo car in there for fuel atomization and drain back since it was a wet mixture. That's why the factory then could eliminate the foot on the hot air cars, and the intake manifold was better because it was all a dry flow in the upper and mid portions of the plenum.

 

[WarWagon]

Mr. Upholsterer. This is all pioneering territory where you plan to go with your project, and I will happen.

 

[charlief1]

Concerning the factory turbo with the 90 degree elbow at the outlet:
Any idea why they did it this way? It looks like it would flow much better if they would've rotated the turbo forward and blew it straight into the manifold (no elbow)
Was it merely a hood clearance/fit issue that positioned the turbo where they did?

I was once thinking of using a standard style turbo with a thermostat housing at the outlet to make the 90 degree bend into the intake manifold.

It was the cheap way out..I could imagine they allready spend a ton of money on this thing on R&D, You have to start drawing the line somewhere.. It would of been nice if they would of had some kind of a over sized cast aluminum funnel housing ..to create more air force...but then you would need a few more engineers, draftsman, and more testing... if I had more money maybe I could design a ufo and really experiance some real "Gs"/// The last really fast car I was in was a Hemi aluminum body dodge..did wheel stands with just touching the gas..you had to breathe between shifts, only time that load of Gs was off your chest.. ahhhh good old days.... They don't make cars like that anymore...

Sorry guys Been busy.
Walt the foot on the turbo of the carb turbo car in there for fuel atomization and drain back since it was a wet mixture. That's why the factory then could eliminate the foot on the hot air cars, and the intake manifold was better because it was all a dry flow in the upper and mid portions of the plenum.

Actually it's from the 60's and it is for hood clearance. Oldmobile did it on the jet fire V8 in the early 60's and it worked well enough. It doesn't really help with atomization because the turbo acts like a big blender when the air/fuel mix goes through the turbo. This is the same reason Smokey used a draw through design on the Fiero 2.5L and got 250 horses and 50 MPG out of it.:biggrin:

 

[WkillGS]

Ja...I couldn't comprehend the 'better atomization ' aspect of it. Heck, they're slamming the fuel/air mix straight into the manifold floor! That can't be good.
I do see how the turbo must be mounted so it 'drains' into the manifold....lowest point faces 'down'.