#600 no start

[80/89TTA]

Drove car for the first time in a couple of weeks yesterday and while driving noticed did not come on boost well, felt slower and boost only rose to 14psi....slowly.
Drove car back home pulled off boost controller and checked other things like hoses and such out everything checked fine re-installed boost controller after turning it in some more (rjc controller). took for a drive (evening much cooler) car felt better but did not make boost past 11 in first 14 in secound and 16 in third....verified through both boost guages. pulling into the garage shut off car as i turned the key off i heard a mettalic pop...not real loud but it was louder than motor winding down. Now car will not start it sounds real funny when cranking almost like it is free spinning but motor is turning over, cam sensor is turning. fuel is ok, crank sensor is ok, hoses and such OK - I will start working on it to get more information.

mods - ta49-boost controller-translator-42.5 injectors-adj. reg.-255pump w/ hot wire-rjc plate - built trans / ATI converter-exhaust cat-back - 140 alt.

any help

 

[80/89TTA]

OK, I went over wiring up top - Coil ohmed out at 8/17/8 changed out coil pack - NEW GM module failed all test on module machine - replaced module. Car still will not start. checked with good computer - car still no start. Changed cam cap off my GN still no start, GN did though with TA cap.
checked the fusible links i could get too today....I am lost with this thing!

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

U said it cranks over funny. Like it's free spinning? Think the timing chain slipped? Clean out your oil drain pan and change the oil n if you find some plastic chunks then the chain slipped.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

If it's cranking fine and does not sound like real low on compression. Then do u think it could be the vats system, try a spare key, ohm out your current key and buy a new one on eBay for 3.99 and cut it at ace hardware

HTH

 

[80/89TTA]

Yes it sounds like it is cranking over too easy.

I do not have a VATS key, I have a plain old GM key. I have owned it nine years and 20K miles.

I have power everywhere i have checked so far although on the scanner i am not getting a RPM while cranking - I will go over this tomorrow

 

[skturbo]

Did you check for spark and injector pulse after we talked yesterday? If you have no spark or RPM on scaner. I would start at the crank sensor.

Steve K.

 

[skturbo]

Quick6'n'-K.C. Just so you know when the VATS is activated the starter will have no power to the starter. No cranking.

Steve K.

 

[80/89TTA]

Oh Yea! it has much spark....

Brand new in the Bag Crank sensor installed yesterday...but will check wiring.

I will work on it today between jobs

 

[80/89TTA]

well, as you were! I now have no spark - yesterday i did - I also have an open ground or something also popping injector fuses!

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Check to see if the egr gasket did not blow out and melt number three injector. Don't remove the egr the gaskets are hard to find.

Check the inj wires to see if they are chaffed against the rail or pinched.

Most common issue is that when you pry out the prongs on the ignition module to install the wires, people forget to push the prongs back down, and the module wears into the coil pack POPPING the fuse

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Quick6'n'-K.C. Just so you know when the VATS is activated the starter will have no power to the starter. No cranking.

Steve K.

I thought it would crank but not fire? Guess I never tried it, but now u mention it my bosses camero would do what your saying

 

[80/89TTA]

I will find out soon i will be back on it in an hour or so. The module I replaced the GM module with did not match up (BWD) listed for the 89 TTA. I ordered another for the 87 GN (they were differant part numbers. I will pull the injector harness also before i install the module.
The module was just replaced a month ago with a GM module which i could tell "blew" So i think i am chasing my tail because the module i took off yesterday was not good and had a crack through the center of it....that 200+ piece did not last long. It also failed all tests on the module machine. Hopefully this replacement module will work.
The module would explain the weak boost (rich) and from the looks of the GM module with the crack in it could explain the pop sound i heard.

now need to find the culprit - will post back results.

 

[80/89TTA]

changed out module i now have spark again.

Injector harness is fine pulled and inspected.

still no start??? also still no rpm on the scanner while cranking.

 

[80/89TTA]

well sh!t, timing chain is broke! this is a 70K mileage car that is not driven hard, and leads a pampered life, wtf! apparentelly it is hanging on enough to turn the valve train and to slightly turn the cam sensor. when i went to set the cam sensor I thought it was 180 out so I lined up the marks again and it barely turned.

thanks for everyones help!

well here comes the teardown.

 

[bmackinnon]

U said it cranks over funny. Like it's free spinning? Think the timing chain slipped? Clean out your oil drain pan and change the oil n if you find some plastic chunks then the chain slipped.

well sh!t, timing chain is broke! this is a 70K mileage car that is not driven hard, and leads a pampered life, wtf! apparentelly it is hanging on enough to turn the valve train and to slightly turn the cam sensor. when i went to set the cam sensor I thought it was 180 out so I lined up the marks again and it barely turned.

thanks for everyones help!

well here comes the teardown.

Doubt the chain broke, probably stripped the plastic teeth off the gear like Bryan said.... definitely need to pull it completely apart, clean the oil pan, and find out HOW MANY valves are bent.... some undoubtably are... :frown:

 

[80/89TTA]

yes, in regards to stripped gears, broke all the $same$ it is coming out. so much for an un-molested block. I have it tore down to the cover letting ex. manifold and turbo bolts soak in PB blaster will remove in the morning. I will then put the "wife is going to be pissed list" together.
You would have thought running 20lbs boost on pump gas for many years would have caught up to it before the chain went kaboom....I hope the motor will be the same as before as in take alot of boost with no knock.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

STOP!!!!

The pushrods will bend before the valves bend if it has a stock cam...

Ive seen and worked on them when they let go at 70mph, no bent valves, just bent pushrods.

No need to pull the motor dude, just hold off pulling it unless you like alot of work for nothing....

Do you want to call me?

 

[80/89TTA]

no intention of pulling motor just prepping in case heads have to come off. yes the cam is stock the motor itself has never been opened up. I will know alot more tomorrow. I think it should be OK I heard the pop sound when i turned the car off.

want the least amount of work and expense as possible.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

First i would pull the valve covers off and yank out all the pushrods, check to see which ones bent.
Then do a cyl leak down test, possible carbon build up so keep that in mind if you get air past a valve
You can pull the front cover and buy a new timing set. I suggest pulling the oilpan to clean out the pickup tube.
Install a roller cam button, And set the chain straight up. Do not advance or
Retard the cam.
I bet you don't have bent valves
Later

 

[Razor]

First i would pull the valve covers off and yank out all the pushrods, check to see which ones bent.
Then do a cyl leak down test, possible carbon build up so keep that in mind if you get air past a valve
You can pull the front cover and buy a new timing set. I suggest pulling the oilpan to clean out the pickup tube.
Install a roller cam button, And set the chain straight up. Do not advance or
Retard the cam.
I bet you don't have bent valves
Later

+1

People dont understand that the car is now 22 years old. Has been raced to 5000+ rpms many times.. and then the plastic gears on the chain broke..

This is why timing chain and valve springs are on the "to do" list when you own one of these cars.

You car can have 5000 miles.. its the 22 years old thing.

Now to find a good timing chain... that is the problem.