No start

[spaulding]

Hi Guys, I am at the point where I can crank the engine but have no spark. I have fuel to the rail at 45 psi but there is no fuel in the cylinders, plugs are dry. Following the no start tree, it shows the ignition controller is bad/failed. I am going to replace the ignition controller with a 87 and do a re pin. Does this sound like a good fix? Thanks in advance. FYI the last time this engine was run was 2008, its been sitting in parts for years.
Spaulding

 

[spaulding]

Update: Replaced coil and ignition module, plugs are now wet but no spark. Working through the no start tree, getting close!

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

No Start Tree

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

This is what Steve has for the hot air cars.

'84/'85 Trouble Shooting

 

[spaulding]

Hi guys, I am wondering if I have the wrong computer for this car, the label says factory authorized remanufactured module, service # 01226459, delco electronics made in USA. Thanks in advance.

 

[HotAirWH1]

84/85
Engine Control Module (ECM)
Part Number: 88999117
Supersession(s): 88999117; 01226459; 1226459

Buick Regal 2DR Base 1984, 1985
Buick Regal 4DR Base 1984
Buick Riviera 2DR Base 1984, 1985
Buick Riviera 2DR LUXURY 1984, 1985
Buick Riviera 2DR T TYPE 1984, 1985
Buick Riviera Convertible Base 1984, 1985

Rock Auto has this ECM as fitting the 85 Grand National

 

[spaulding]

Thank you, it looks like I have the correct computer for the car. Still have no spark and no fuel after new crank sensor, cam sensor and 86-87 ignition module conversion. Frustrating, back to the no start tree!

 

[HotAirWH1]

The new crank sensor ... is it for a 84/85 or is it for a 86/87 (they are wired different).

85 Crank sensor
A - Pos 12V
B - Signal
C - Gnd

87 Crank sensor
A - Pos 12V
B - Gnd
C - Signal

Caspers has a "plug and play" harness that adapts the 85 harness connection to an 87 crank sensor if you need it.

As per - John Spina Caspers Electronics (Dec 15, 2004)

 

[HotAirWH1]

Have you read this thread ???
Link - 86-87 crank sensor

 

[spaulding]

Just read it and will check it on my crank sensor tomorrow. Thanks for the pointers/tips.

 

[HotAirWH1]

If it would help you out, I would be willing to send you my Caspers - link: CCCI Sensor Check Diagnostic Test Tool to assist with your "no start condition". Of course, I would expect you to send it back promptly once you have used it. It may help you hone in on the problem area.

 

[spaulding]

Thank you for your generous offer, I am going to make sure I have power at all sensors and the injectors, then check all fuses again. I will let you know if I need the tester. Question regarding the fuse block, do you know if any of the single point fuses labeled ign 1, 2, and 3 need fuses? They are single spade and not regular size/type with two connecting points (if that makes sense).

 

[HotAirWH1]

If you are getting power from those locations I would use inline fuses.
Also, while checking your wiring, double check your sparkplug wires to the 86/87 coil making sure you have them in the correct firing order. The 84/85 coil pack is different.

86/87 Ignition Schematic

 

[spaulding]

Here is where I am so far:
Chart c-4a
1. no spark on 1,3,5
4. .3 volts at b-5
Chart c-4b
1. a-11 volts .3
2. a and b volts 6.4
2a. a and c volts 11.5
4. crank engine volts 4.3 steady, not varying
The tree states: not ok faulty sensor
I have replaced the cam sensor, and still have the same results. Anyone have any ideas?
Hot air WH1, I would like to take you up on the offer of the test tool if you still are willing.
Thanks

 

[HotAirWH1]

I just sent you a PM

 

[spaulding]

Guys here is what I have so far using Casper's sensor check tool:
With key on: power, crank and cam lights illuminated (bright and steady) on test tool.
With engine cranking over: power, crank and cam lights same, not blinking rapidly as stated in instruction sheet.
Moving the switch on tool from 84-85 or 86-86 does not change the light function.
Thoughts?

 

[Lockman]

AFAIK, The cam sensor has nut'n to do with starting. Crank sensor does.

 

[HotAirWH1]

Thank you, it looks like I have the correct computer for the car. Still have no spark and no fuel after new crank sensor, cam sensor and 86-87 ignition module conversion. Frustrating, back to the no start tree!

Spiro - Make sure you are using a 85 crank sensor or if you are using the 87 crank sensor you will have to use the Caspers Crank Sensor Adapter 84/85 even though you have a 86/87 Ign Control Module & Coil.

 

[edfiero]

Since you have already replaced the crank sensor.....
It might be time to try to get your hands on another ECU. Borrow one to at least rule this out. After 40 years, these things do go bad, and would certainly explain the no start.

 

[spaulding]

Yes, I just finished testing continuity from ccci to computer (5) total wires and all have good continuity and are in the correct locations. Still need to check white tach wire and trace it to instrument panel. Checked rotation of cam reluctor/interrupter under cam sensor cap and it is rotating. I will post a picture of the computer chip as I am not sure if it is correct. Might try the computer swap next.