20+ year owner gets ripped off, desperately needs help.

[RainmakerJr]

If you read my sig. you will see I have a long history with my GN, and it's a long story that leads me to where I am now. But is necessary to understand.....

In 1985 a 13 year old me was with my father at the buick dealer to pick up his new regal. Spinning on the lighted display (it was the 80's lol) was the new GN. It was love at first sight!!! Told him then and there I would have one someday. Cars were always our bond. In the late 50's my Pop's had the fastest car in Belton County 11.26@ 118. He laid down the gauntlet and in 1994 I purchased a 1987 GN (11,000 miles) with the sole purpose of dethroning him. I whittled it down to high 11's before life and change of priorities got in the way. For the next 20 years he playfully busted my nuts.

09/13 I decided it was time and took my running GN to a shop (same one built it 20 years ago). The shop owner used to have a 1000+ hp GN and there are always 10 of them there getting worked on. He knows them well and I thought I could trust him..... WRONG!!!! He was to purchase & install the Big Stuff 3, Precision T & E front mount - upper intake and 70mm throttle body. He said 6 weeks & I paid the man. That was 09/14/13. Every excuse ever used by man and its now over a year later 10/14 and my Pop's passed away. I went to the shop and all the parts were installed. He plugged the laptop in and tried to fire it off. And when he did it backfired so hard it almost blew the mufflers off POW!! Dude said was something with distributor.... like worn gear??? More excuses and time passes. It's now 05/15 he said fixed distributor but someone broke into my car at his shop and stole the Big Stuff brain. How nice of the thief to unlock the door, unbolt the seat and unplug the brain!!! Dude said he would replace it. Even more excuses and finally 10/15 I had a flat bed pick it up and bring it home.

The now.....(finally right? lol) Last week I purchased ANOTHER Big Stuff3. The dude had the coil pack off so I reinstalled it. Next I checked all his wiring on the harness and gave the car a one over. Except for a weak battery all was good. Hooked a cranking charger up plugged in the laptop and tried to fire. Engine is cranking good and smooth and was getting a little fire and almost started. Next try all spin and no fire then POW!!! It sounded like a 9mm round was shot under the hood!! My ears are still ringing!!! I didn't see any damage ??? so I replaced the battery (it was bulged but don't think this was the POW) and added gas since the gauge was on empty. When I looked at the laptop it was then I realized I hadn't downloaded PT&E's Pete's initial start program DOH!!! Got that in and crank crank crank no fire (3) 10 second tries. I stopped and called it a nite. I was honestly scared I was going to get another POW!!!! I got a new set of plugs (autolite 23's) but have not installed them yet. Not sure where to go from here and can't have another POW.

What do I check for backfire damage? How do I verify the ignition and timing are functional? What else should I do so I can safely try to fire it again? I'm already going to sue the dude for the $2500 BS3. And i'm seriously worried the dude damaged the engine or tranny and pulled the brain to cover his mistake. If so, dude will pay for that also. So I need help to get the car running asap.

I want to thank this amazing forum and members for all the help and information they provide. Although I'm a new member, I have used this forum for many years. In fact this is the first time I've had an issue the search engine couldn't solve. Turbo regal owners are the best. Thanks again!!!

 

[Phoneguy]

First I would find someone local to you on this forum to assist you in going over the car. Find someone who knows the BS3 tuning as well. Cal at Hartline performance knows the BS 3 I believe, give him a call after checking over the wiring and verifying that the cam sensor is installed correctly, all fuses checked. Good luck with the shop ....
Welcome aboard ! The help you need is here.

Bryan

 

[RainmakerJr]

Thanks Bryan!! I live in Midlothian, Texas and would be willing to bribe a member with alcohol, steak or possibly a few lap dances (whatever lol) to come over here to help me check/fix the car. I've had a few carb'ed cars backfire before (180 out), but never as VIOLENT as this. Quick and powerful, just like a gunshot!!! I know my limitations and will not fire again until I get some help. Any fellow Texans out there?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Did you get the wiring/install manual when you picked the car up?
Here's a link to the manual, if you did not. It may provide some insights into wiring issues.
http://bigstuff3.com/pdf/GEN3 User Manual - Feb 2011 - Rev 2.2.pdf

I wonder what shop did this...Hmmn

 

[Pronto]

Aside from you getting boned up the ass by that shop, it's time to think over the BS3 install. You can easily get all the performance you are looking for with a stock ecm and TT chip without being held hostage to the BS3 which is not as popular for TBs as the FAST Xfi. There's alot more support for the Xfi. Plenty for chips too. Your cam sensor (not a distributor) could be installed wrong or the BS3 could be full of BS and not set right. Probably didn't do damage but don't mess with it until you get someone to help that isn't ripping you off. Good luck, hope you get this all straightened out! 30 miles in the last 12 years is sad.

 

[johnplogii]

Set the cam sensor, do you have the stock computer? I would probably throw the stock ecm back in to make sure the motor still runs properly. Then worry about installing the big stuff 3.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Trying to find a good mechanic is like trying to find a good doctor. It's not easy.

I agree with johnplogii. A backfire is a direct indication that the cam sensor is off. You could try slightly turning it but it needs to be verified in sync with compression stroke.

To, check for disconnected cooler couplings and vac lines. They tend to blow off when it backfires.

 

[Danster]

What shop was this? Think I know as it has been mentioned on this site before?

There are a couple of guys around the area who can help or get it to Jack Laswell who might have some knowledge of the Big Stuff. I know he has knowledge of the XFI system.
Also you will not be burned by him either!


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[rag231]

Did you have a laptop on start up, or to check the parameters of the BS? I am thinking cam sensor sync as well as v6 and v8 parameters.

 

[Nick Micale]

Right now I have GN's from Texas, Colorado, California, Northern AZ, Southern AZ, plus a few local ones as well. In the past I have fixed and built GN's from as far away as the East coast.

The reason they were brought here as no one, or shop, in their areas have been able to get them running properly.

Their problem is people/shops which claim to be "experts" are BS'ers just wanting to take your money.

There are VERY few places around the country with the knowledge, expertise and willingness to properly fix or build a 30 year old TR, much less do it at a fair and reasonable cost.

I am not soliciting work as I always have more than enough GN's, and that is the only cars I do, but it pisses me off that shops and people screw up these cars, as well a screwing the owners with their lies and GREED.

 

[RainmakerJr]

Did you get the wiring/install manual when you picked the car up?
Here's a link to the manual, if you did not. It may provide some insights into wiring issues.
http://bigstuff3.com/pdf/GEN3 User Manual - Feb 2011 - Rev 2.2.pdf

I wonder what shop did this...Hmmn

Yes I got the manual and extra new harness (one was already in car and wont sell without a new one). It's a plug and play and only a few wires to install. In life I try to be a mellow dude. Yes I would love to strangle the guy, and am completely sick to my stomach over this. But I'm done wasting energy on him. It won't bring Pops back to see me run the number, I have accepted this. I didn't want to join this board with the negative energy of bashing someone and give the wrong impression of whom I am. But I am torn because there was 3 or 4 GN's still there when I picked mine up.

 

[BEATAV8]

Check and confirm your firing order and spark plug wires. Crossed plug wires can cause a bad back fire.

lean cranking condition can also cause backfiring problems. I know nothing about BS3, but if it were a turbo tweak SD chip I would add 10% or even 20% cranking fuel and try that.

 

[BEATAV8]

Also have a look at all of your key on / engine off sensor readings and see if they make sense. You wouldn't want a bad sensor reading to be causing problems. I've seen things like a bad TPS wiring job cause a 5V TPS reading which automatically puts the engine into "clear flood" status. Bad MAP sensor wiring job can also wreak havoc. So just have a look at everything and see if it makes sense / looks good before cranking it again.

 

[DMAC]

Which Shop Screwed you so the rest of us can stay clear of them !

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Still have the stock ign coil/module?? Was it replaced by the "guru"?? If so, I can assure you that crossing the green and yellow wires on the module to coil, WILL create one HELL of a backfire! Don't ask me how I know this! It Bf's so violently, it knocked the nose off a brand new starter!

 

[Gene Van Horn]

To tell the name of this shop is your decision, not everyone elses. One thing i would say is i personally would never leave any car i owned let alone my grand national at someones shop for that period of time. No shop owner could possibly talk me into thinking any repairs could take that long. Should have long ago picked it up even in pieces and got it at least home. I simply cannot believe how many stories i have read or been told about people leaving their cars for months and even years with loser shops. You are finnally in the correct place, get some local help or take the car to Arizona and let Nick fix it .

 

[dynoman]

Still have the stock ign coil/module?? Was it replaced by the "guru"?? If so, I can assure you that crossing the green and yellow wires on the module to coil, WILL create one HELL of a backfire! Don't ask me how I know this! It Bf's so violently, it knocked the nose off a brand new starter!

I remember that thread Chuck !

 

[Chuck Leeper]

I remember that thread Chuck !

 

[silver/black]

When it comes to mechanics it's like the scorpion and the frog. That is why there is BAR. I got jobbed by a reputable shop also. Sorry to hear this happened to you. One thing that happened to me was, I sent a new Eaton posi unit to be installed. The shop charged for the install, kept my parts, guess he didn't tthink I would take the diff cover off to see if it got installed. He had to ship it back to me. That was 1 of many things. Do you think I got my forged crank or pistons??? You hire reputable shops to be ASSured....now I don't know what I got..but I do have all the emails to prove it.

 

[RainmakerJr]

Yes I got the manual and extra new harness (one was already in car and wont sell without a new one). It's a plug and play and only a few wires to install. In life I try to be a mellow dude. Yes I would love to strangle the guy, and am completely sick to my stomach over this. But I'm done wasting energy on him. It won't bring Pops back to see me run the number, I have accepted this. I didn't want to join this board with the negative energy of bashing someone and give the wrong impression of whom I am. But I am torn because there was 3 or 4 GN's still there when I picked mine up.

Proto - I have always been blown away members have been able to go so fast with basically an "Atari" running things LOL. Burning chips, an early Scanmaster, and running a low impedence injector computer. The car ran ok but the 55lb, lumpy 218 cam and 9" convertor made it a brute. It needed refinement, like a modern EFI with wide band o2. BS3 was a personal preference from a John Meaney fan. I'm sure the Fast system is great also.

On the BS3 start program. I checked some basic maps, timing - fuel etc. and all was filled out. Pete from PT&E seemed very nice and knowledgeable. All sensors are reading on the display maps so car is hooked in.

I'm leaning towards a cam sensor issue, to check do you buy the tester from Casper or another way? Until I'm sure of this I will not fire. Saw no evidence it has been messed with and all looks original.

For the past 12 years I have lived my life 1/4 mile at a time LOL.

Senior citizen - I have the stock ecm, but it was at the bottom of a pile of parts in dudes shop. Now its all dented up and when u shake it body filler dust falls out. It's no longer trust worthy.

BuRick - Will double check all the vac lines. I will probably replace them as they are all old and crusty. Yes priority one is to verify the cam sensor and compression stroke are in sync. How is this accomplished?

Danster and DMAC - Although the votes speak for themselves, out of respect for this board and it's staff I will not name the shop here. UNLESS.... With the staff's blessing will post a picture of my car there and his sign is visible. If they do not respond or you still just have to know. Feel free to contact me at my personal e-mail (same as username @Hotmail.com) and I will tell you privately.

Rag231 - Checked parameters to best of my limited ability and all was well. Not sure how to tell V6 vs V8 parameters. Considering this was a plug and play specifically made for the 86-87 GN I hope they know it's a V6 LOL

Nick - You are one of my heros LOL. You hit the nail on the head. good help is hard to find. And pre internet days (I feel so old now lol) A guy named Jason at the local Super Shops had a 10 sec GN and recommended this shop, as did other GN owners I met. My plan (since my old rebuild has low miles) was to get all the good bolt on stuff on and sorted out. Suspension (love the GNS performance car setup ) - new bb turbo - modern DP and SINGLE wastegate lol and alcohol injection. Hoped this would be enough to squeeze a high 10 for Pops. Then drive and enjoy the car for awhile. With a long term goal of taking my car to a shop like yours, dropping the coin to have an aluminum roller built to run lower 10's set on kill and turn down to reliably run high 10's. Todays modern cars are so powerful now. The neighborhood kids now have ZL1 Camaros and SR8 Challengers. Since I've cleared my land the garage is now visible from the street. One kid in a blown mustang laid rubber the entire length of the front of my property and I have 3.5 acres!! Stiff competition!!

BEATAV8 - Checked the plug wire to coil pack firing order - TPS read .5 volts. New 3 bar MAP. But I did notice on the laptop the reading was bouncing small increments and boost bounced from 0 to .5. The BS3 harness hooks into this green wire in the dash. Possible moving the harness around loosened the splice, will verify. Throughout the years I have changed all the sensors except CAM, its original.

Troll sniper - Yes I have stock replacement coil/ ignition. The "Guru" had a bad habit of pulling parts off running GNs there to trouble shoot non running ones. So you never knew if you got your "exact" parts back. I did not check the coil to module wiring as they were in one piece when I installed them, only plugged in. Maybe I should do this?

Everyone - Even though I love my GN dearly, with all the issues I've had it's been more grief than joy. Blown head gaskets - ballooned orange crush convertor - harmonic balancer not torqued flying into old factory intercooler - newly rebuilt engine losing oil pressure and eating the bearings and turbo (dude said oil pump cover gears) I could go on and on. And each time I had the same dude rebuild and add better parts. He had me convinced it wasn't him just a byproduct of making power with a hybrid V6 turbo. It's why I parked it 20 years ago. Looking back I can't believe I was so stupid. Shame on me for going back to him again. If you notice in my garage pic I also have a 1950 chevy fleetline, my second one. It has an LS motor & tranny - 4 wheel disc etc. Thought low and slow was they way to go. I had mementally given up on the GN and beating Pops.

The very last conversation I had with my Pops was about the GN. He pointed out that although I was distraught, I never sold it. And said with confidence WHEN I beat his time, he would be there in spirit to cheer me on. So this is a very emotional issue to me as well. Between the art prints, halograms, diecasts, shirts, banners and everything else. I realized I'm a lifetime owner!! The 1950 chevy will be for sale in the spring to fund the cause.

Sorry for the long response, will try to keep future ones more brief. After sharing all this personal stuff you guys are practically family now LOL. Thanks for taking the time to read this, the emotional support and help.